RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense...

RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (Full Version)

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agonyndefeet -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 10:59:52 AM)
the paramaters should be set before hand

cantilena -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:00:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Okay, this is just my brain twisting some thoughts around and I'm wondering what others think. I do not want this to be a thread about safewords...but about one of the reasons some people say that they want to have or use safewords...particularly "yellow" or its equivalent. For the purpose of this thread I will just refer to it as "yellow" but you can feel free to insert whatever word you personally use. If you are in a scene and the sensations you are feeling are too intense or too painful...and you use your "yellow" word to get the dominant to back down a bit, are you not controlling the scene? Are you really submitting FULLY to the will of the dominant? Now I am NOT talking about communicating what you believe will be impending damage. Just when it feels too intense for your comfort. I have often seen people post about not being able to "take" as much as the dominant wishes to give. I've felt that way myself at times. But if you use the word....isn't that taking (or attempting to take) control of the scene? I'm not talking about begging or pleading in hopes that he will have mercy. I'm not talking about crying or screaming if you have to in order to deal with it. I'm specifically referring to the submissive setting the parameters of the scene by the use of such words. Thoughts? To me, a sub saying verbally "Yellow", or for that matter "Sir, I believe I'm at my limits", doesn't define the issue. What defines the issue in my mind is what the dominant does with the message within that relationship. If "yellow" or the equivalent means that the dominant automatically slows down or is required to stop or behaves in any predetermined fashion, then yes the sub is setting the parameters of the scene to an extent (IMO). If the dominant isn't limited by the relationship to behave in a predetermined way, but uses the information as s/he thinks appropriate in the given situation, then no... I don't think that's a sub driving the bus so to speak, but rather just communicating information. Disclaimer: We use the colors. If I were ever in a position to actually use yellow (which I never have), he would ease the intensity of play. Calling red would stop the scene dead cold. No doubt in my mind. In other words, the colors to us mean the use of one prescribes a specific action from him. Because of this, I recognize that in no way am I in "total" submission. I don't claim that, and never have, but on the other hand I don't believe my submission to be any less valid because of it. Just two cents. I know you're looking for responses from people in more of a TPE dynamic, but I've twisted this one round in my head as well! I think it sort of made sense... hope so anyway.

mistoferin -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:03:38 AM)
I'd just like to say once again that I did not want this to turn into another safeword thread and it's not about impending injury. What happens if you go past "this is too much"? When it's too much is there loss of composure? uncontrolled sobbing that you recover from fairly quickly when the pain stops?.....or something more serious that warrants slowing it down or stopping such as a mental injury? catatonia during recovery? PTSD? If it's any of the first group....are those valid reasons for a submissive to limit the scene? As a "D" type, how do you recognize or differentiate between the two groups? Also, as an "s" type, if you have done so, what were your emotions in retrospect?

DominantJenny -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:11:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I'd just like to say once again that I did not want this to turn into another safeword thread and it's not about impending injury. What happens if you go past "this is too much"? When it's too much is there loss of composure? uncontrolled sobbing that you recover from fairly quickly when the pain stops?.....or something more serious that warrants slowing it down or stopping such as a mental injury? catatonia during recovery? PTSD? If it's any of the first group....are those valid reasons for a submissive to limit the scene? As a "D" type, how do you recognize or differentiate between the two groups? Also, as an "s" type, if you have done so, what were your emotions in retrospect? In my case, no, the first stuff doesn't warrant stopping or even altering a scene. Mental injury would fall into the same category as physical injury. I select submissives who are willing to submit to the degree I prefer, and I make sure we communicate well.

Missokyst -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:39:13 AM)
I never worry or wonder why someone would safe to slow down. Or question the validity of their total submission if they did. Mostly because I see a dominant man as one with enough self esteem to not be threatened by communication. Everytime I see blustering about people topping from the bottom I have to wonder is the dominant in charge or is the ego? Lord help us if someone should call yellow because of a cramp in the leg that is twisted back behind them. Gad.. one wouldnt want to hurt an ego. Do we really believe that dominants would be less dominant if they listen to their partner? Kyst

mistoferin -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:45:10 AM)
No, I don't believe that. You are responding as though I am somehow attaching judgment or trying to define a one true way. I'm not. It was just a thought that got sparked by something that someone else said and my mind started to view it from all different directions. I thought it might be interesting to see how others saw it. Nothing more.

Prismfire -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:46:50 AM)
I think this is a great question... It is difficult for me to comprehend using a safe-word to control a scene on a personal level although I can definitely see where the potential to do such exists. I can remember two times where safe-words became even a thought in my head one was a scene with a very inexperienced Dominant in which i actually got hurt during which I said watch the spine which effectively ended the scene, and the other was never voiced but it was the thought in my head of ok this is nearing my limits while still tolerable lets see where it goes but I might want to safe-word at some point here. LOL amazingly as if he could read minds the Dom backed off a bit after only a few minutes without me (yellowing) For me if I have gone to the point of stop everything then I have done my dominant a disservice by not communicating that there was a yellow issue barring of course an injury or some sort. I think there is a whole other issue here about safe-words that we don't really look at in how the safe-word affects the dominant in a scene. I would imagine trying to control a scene with the "approaching the limit" safe-word on a continuous basis could really destroy the energy of a scene fairly quickly ... Just my two cents.

Leatherist -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:51:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I never worry or wonder why someone would safe to slow down. Or question the validity of their total submission if they did. Mostly because I see a dominant man as one with enough self esteem to not be threatened by communication. Everytime I see blustering about people topping from the bottom I have to wonder is the dominant in charge or is the ego? Lord help us if someone should call yellow because of a cramp in the leg that is twisted back behind them. Gad.. one wouldnt want to hurt an ego. Do we really believe that dominants would be less dominant if they listen to their partner? Kyst There is ego,,,,and there is EGO. If another top tries to play control games and manipulation with me-I will merrily tell him just where to stuff his big ideas. And laugh when he gets angry-because it shows him up as childish. But during a scene, I am playing and controlling. And it has to be someone I care about having a future with for me to do something that intimate. My ego takes a back seat to that. I find a lot more trust in someone who knows that I can push her-when she is ready. And a lot more eroticism, which is my only real reason for doing this stuff. My ego takes a back seat in priorities. Most tops screw up otherwise great things by allowing themselves to get out of control. Discipline begins with the authority figure-and that especially includes controlling your own thoughts and emotions. Find another hobby if you feel the need to work out your "issues" on another human being.

BitaTruble -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:54:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Okay, this is just my brain twisting some thoughts around and I'm wondering what others think. I do not want this to be a thread about safewords...but about one of the reasons some people say that they want to have or use safewords...particularly "yellow" or its equivalent. For the purpose of this thread I will just refer to it as "yellow" but you can feel free to insert whatever word you personally use. If you are in a scene and the sensations you are feeling are too intense or too painful...and you use your "yellow" word to get the dominant to back down a bit, are you not controlling the scene? Are you really submitting FULLY to the will of the dominant? Now I am NOT talking about communicating what you believe will be impending damage. Just when it feels too intense for your comfort. I have often seen people post about not being able to "take" as much as the dominant wishes to give. I've felt that way myself at times. But if you use the word....isn't that taking (or attempting to take) control of the scene? I'm not talking about begging or pleading in hopes that he will have mercy. I'm not talking about crying or screaming if you have to in order to deal with it. I'm specifically referring to the submissive setting the parameters of the scene by the use of such words. Thoughts? Interesting question. You've used a 'scene' as a parameter, but really taking control could cover any aspect of a relationship, not just those which are pain related. The pain may be a catalyst in that moment but is it any different from trying to control in another area? Is the fact that pain is intimate and personal an excuse to take the reins back when you've agreed to give them up? Probably not, but it would be relationship dependent. Reneging in a short term scene with a play partner just isn't the same and trying to seize back control in a long-term, established relationship. In the short term the consequence may be that person won't scene with you again but since there's not a shared, personal relationship it probably won't affect you in other areas while if you continue without stopping it, the consequences may be greater up to and including physical damage. It's a cost vs benefit decision. Costs are greater and benefits are higher in long-term relationships. I don't see very much difference in calling out yellow because you're in some intense pain and calling out yellow because you don't watch another espisode of Squidbillies. ::chuckles:: They're at different levels, to be sure, but they are still the same arena. I think the question here is; is this trying to take control or is this communicating and is communicating to your dominant that you're in the middle of a television show you like somehow better or worse than communicating to your dominant that you're in the middle of some pain that you don't like? In the end whether it's called communication or coup attempt, it's how the dominant reacts which will determine the consequences, so, it's best, as usual, to be on the same page in the same book with whomever it is you walk or crawl beside.

mistoferin -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 11:59:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble calling out yellow because you don't watch another espisode of Squidbillies. ::chuckles:: Assuming this is a real show I must say that I am suddenly glad that I'm not really much of a TV person...lol.

WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 12:01:56 PM)
Never really got into the whole "yellow" and colored safeword routine. In terms of play, just plain old fashioned communication. Words such as "Timeout", complete spoken sentences such as "I need to go to the bathroom" and such. In regards to play, many of the things I do, involve the sub/slave not having any control at all. Such as prolong orgasms and other fun things! Where I'm intentionally pushing her ass over the edge. Would kind of mess with things to hear her screaming out "yellow"... I'm much rather hear her beg for me to stop.. and I push things.. within reason. Mind you I have to guage just how far to push or take things. If somebody is in sub space, they ain't going to be saying shit! Their eyes are glassed over... looking like a deer in the head lights. They are lucky to know their own friggen name let alone be able to speak anything about anything going on.

BitaTruble -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 12:02:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble calling out yellow because you don't watch another espisode of Squidbillies. ::chuckles:: Assuming this is a real show I must say that I am suddenly glad that I'm not really much of a TV person...lol. It is and I really think it should be made a compulsory hard limit for everyone. It's too late for me but save yourself if you can!

SimplyMichael -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 12:05:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: A safeword for me within my relationship is a call for communication of information that the slave wants to give me, nothing more. Yeah... Once, in the middle of the night I think I did actually say, "please....stop.... too... intense.....can't....take....any...more..." which tickled you immensely if I remember correctly..[sm=sex.gif] I love it when you say "please stop"...nothing inspires me to be harder....at the same time, I have also stopped short of that. So far I have yet to have you tell me later "I really wished you HAD stopped"... Funny about all this, if you were a casual partner, I WOULD have stopped, but since you are the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with, I didn't...

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 12:13:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble calling out yellow because you don't watch another espisode of Squidbillies. ::chuckles:: Assuming this is a real show I must say that I am suddenly glad that I'm not really much of a TV person...lol. Ummmm.......thinking it would be RIGHT up your Mister's alley....lol And regarding the OP, I am with Archer here---I do want to know what is going on with my playmate. Anyone I am very used to is not going to share information that I don't need, and if I am doing something that I have done X times before with no issue, well, it's nice to have some input. That's all it is, though, INPUT. Hey, thanks for sharing, moving on as needed. Even generally no limits people or heavy masos can have a bad day. It is perfectly fine for my playmate to say The arthritis has kicked in, I need to move my arm. I don't consider that kind of thing taking control of the scene, just letting me know that possible injury is afoot. It's a trust issue, and also realizing that the top is not a mind reader, even though he or she might be spectacular at reading body language, might know you completely, and all that. I never even THINK of talking about safewords, I pretty much never use them, but if my playmate is in need of help, I don't want them to feel that they can't ask for fear of appearing manipulative.

BitaTruble -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 12:24:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Even generally no limits people or heavy masos can have a bad day. It is perfectly fine for my playmate to say The arthritis has kicked in, I need to move my arm. I don't consider that kind of thing taking control of the scene, just letting me know that possible injury is afoot. There are also those days when the energy just isn't right and normal approaches to a particular activity might end up in less than stellar scenes. Taking the big picture into account is important and if the top half of the equation isn't given all the news that's fit to print, how can they make knowledgeable decisions on how to proceed? Good post, Lady H. :)

DesFIP -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 12:59:07 PM)
I think you're overthinking it. If it's getting so intense that I'm going to need to call red because I can't handle anymore, then of course he would rather me ask for it to be a little less so he doesn't have to stop suddenly. It's information, that I'm approaching my limit. Now if he wants to drive me to safeword for whatever reason, he can. If he doesn't want me to, then he can carry on within my physical limits. No different than saying "the way you're bending my arm back is very uncomfortable, please adjust it" so I don't have to say "call an ambulance, you just broke my arm".

DelilahDeb -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 1:11:52 PM)
My basic instruction to my subs is this: communication is REQUIRED. Not just negotiations in advance, but a certain amount of feedback. And if you are a sub who does not naturally vocalize in response to sensations applied, then that communication becomes ever more important. A recent instance: playing with a sub with whom I had played only twice before, in discussing safe words/signals, the definition of the basic traffic light code that I gave him was: * green = we're good, all systems go * yellow = we need to talk * red = stop, abort, we're done Now this particular sub was, as I had already noted, a quiet sub--he didn't moan or hum in pleasure or pain until matters got quite intense. It happened that a blood sugar crash ended the scene a bit early. During aftercare/debriefing, we talked about sensations, and he said "I could tolerate it and maybe a little more." Now I had already explained to him that my goal is "hurts so good"--I am not a sadist, I'm a domina. So I pointed out to him that if he was having to "tolerate" it rather than relax into the intensity, he was already beyond my limits. And I told him that that was what I felt yellow is for...checking in with the other half of the play-equation. Delilah Deb

kiwisub12 -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 2:48:12 PM)
calling yellow to me is controlling the scene - but that is what a safeword is for. There is no such thing as legal slavery in America, so the sub/slave has input in all aspects of her life. We might like to think that we don't but in reality, we have a say so in everything that happens to us. Most doms will listen when yellowed - if for no other reason than they want to play again. I don't have a safeword - but my Sir definitely knows when i am at my limit - i think the arm on the scrubs and the begging are kind of a telling point. He doesn't have to pay any attention, and sometimes doesn't, but he knows how i am feeling. And in a sense i am attempting to control what is happening to me. Note the word "attempting". and actually, i have to go past the begging stage to get to the subspace stage. If he stopped everytime i begged, i would be less than happy once i recovered. so for me stop means stop but don't stop. something of a paradox i agree. [:D]

afterforever -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 3:35:41 PM)
I never used safewords with my ex Master, although I agree that communication is key. At the start I would tell him exactly how I was feeling, once he got to know me he could tell from a change in tone of my moaning or body language or something. He was never obliged to slow down, sometimes (rarely) he felt like pushing me past what I thought was intolerable, usually he would back off a bit and switch tactics.

NeedingMore220 -> RE: Stop it or back off....that's too intense... (6/16/2008 4:57:41 PM)
I agree with the OP and understand the confusion. Is my calling a safeword because it, say, stings too much following through with the relationship paramaters I've negotiated and truly want? I want him to know where he wants to take me and he would know where it is I wish to go. It's up to him to decide how and when this occurs. My having a safeword negates that somehow in my mind. It takes back a wee bit of control that I really don't want. [What happens if you go past "this is too much"? When it's too much is there loss of composure? uncontrolled sobbing that you recover from fairly quickly when the pain stops?.....or something more serious that warrants slowing it down or stopping such as a mental injury? catatonia during recovery? PTSD? If it's any of the first group....are those valid reasons for a submissive to limit the scene? As a "D" type, how do you recognize or differentiate between the two groups? Also, as an "s" type, if you have done so, what were your emotions in retrospect? ] I get where you're coming from. I was in a relationship where the scene was stopped by him whenever I was reaching a loss of composure, where I'd be sobbing. Nothing horrendous happened - he slapped me and it made me cry at that moment for some reason, or he stopped before I was at a 'taking too much' place. He wanted to soothe me. I wanted to get past those intense emotions and see where it would take me. He wanted me to safeword when I was at that point ... I wanted to get past it and see where it would take me. We weren't compatible, even though we communicated about it. I've always wanted to experience truly having no control, and having that safeword or having it be too intense for him stopped that. I learned from that relationship. Compatability on many levels is incredibly important.

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