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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 8:09:31 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		the area over the kidneys is very risky when striking as far as injuries, severe or permanent damage and such, most folks know and understand that. however that doesn't mean you have to avoid the area altogether, it all depends on you, how you wish to strike the area (and what with), and your own personal limits or comfort zones.

my Master has punched me in the kidney area at times, with quite a bit of force, and other than aches and pains we haven't noticed any damage. no blood in my urine or anything like that. but he has a lot of experience beating women with his bare hands and just with fighting in general, and over the years i suppose has learned how to keep himself from crossing a line he'd find unacceptable. now for others, they would never even go there. it really boils down to the risks you're willing to take.

(in reply to Midnght)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 8:11:12 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Carl Dozier Edwards, 22, was charged by university police with four counts of aggravated battery in the paddling of the freshmen on Nov. 8. Edwards, a sophomore from Lithonia, Ga., could face up to 15 years in prison.
...One of the freshmen, Marcus Wayne Parker from Jacksonville, was beaten so severely his kidneys temporarily shut down, reports show. Parker told police he was struck 20 to 30 times.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/apnews/stories/112601/D7G1G9M81.html



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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 8:30:29 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		im taking my kidneys to bed and hoping this nonsense is over in the am....sheesh.
For the record....Midnght does not have xray vision either...it would be my responsibility to call the scene if i were hurt in a way that was either too much or in a bad place....no one can strike perfectly everytime....i can say this....he didnt come anywhere near my kidneys with anything...nor has he ever even remotely missed his target...it is why i play with him and why he is my spotter when i play with others. i trust him with my kidneys and my ass....hes one of my best Doms to play with and i cherish every scene we do.
btw...hes evil too...hehehehe

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 8:39:40 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		I'm glad to hear all of  that... did either of you bother to notice that people have had severe kidney injuries by being struck nowhere near the actual kidney?
And the 'I'll tell him when it is just about to be too much' is a fable as well.

You can sneer at the medical facts as 'this nonsense' all you want, that's what the Darwin Awards are all about.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 8:40:57 PM   
darkpassenger434


Posts: 138
Joined: 1/1/2008
Status: offline 		I suppose you could lightly tap the kidneys without permanent damage, but why would you want to. You really wouldn't get much of a different effect than striking a safer area and the consequences of hitting too hard are much worse.
-R

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 8:45:14 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		i am not sneering...i said... that its up to me to report an injury or a pain that is not right....it is then up to the top to stop and investigate. i never said that i would know that something was about to be too much...perhaps reading my words would be better than sniping at someone who is just trying to be clear...or you know...not...whatever you prefer....



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You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

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Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 9:42:28 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Pers.. I think Alums point was that there can be injury to the kidneys without any noticable pain. You won't know that something is wrong until it's too late.... like when your piss is bright red....

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 9:57:07 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		These edge play threads often break down into 'Don't ever even think about doing it!!' and the reactionary 'I don't need no steenkin' advice!'. 

Somewhere in between may be a limited window to do a few things with a reduced risk of harm...

I'm just advocating that people thoroughly educate themselves on how kidneys can be harmed, and not just assume  that pooh-poohing the naysayers will carry them safely though.

Kidneys are not like other body tissue, and the shock waves and cumulative effects from hitting places not directly on the kidneys, would have to be studied, not presumed.

Just learning the difference between causes of kidney lacerations, and causes of kidney bruising, and causes of renal failure would take a signal effort.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 10:23:19 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		This is a reason I tend to avoid "neanderthal play". Deep impact, simply due to the fact that I pride myself on being a competent top. The skin has more than enough nerve endings-I should not have to seek the bone to get a response. People used to tell me"never wrap with a flogger" I beleive this is in reaction to the "captian caveman" tops out there. Idiots who get way too carried  away-and simply hit too hard, and too erratically. I've played with these toys for many years,and I KNOW where the ends of those tails are going to end up. If I want to wrap into a cunt-or a nipple from behind-that is where they will go.
 
 I also tend to give bottoms very little wriggle room when I play. I am VERY into strict bondage-and if I cannot take someone down to a reasonable range of motion to be accurate-I don't play with them. So yes, you can hit and work the SKIN over the kidneys with very little chance of damage. SURFACE impacts.
 
UNLESS you insist on recklessly clubbing someone like a total asshat.
 
 It comes down to sense of competence, and knowing limits that bodies CAN handle. Rather than foolishly assuming that because you WANT to do something, the body can magically take whatever you desire to dish out.
 
 

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 10:26:17 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		LEatherist..you know I like you..

that being said: I'm taking your next to last statement "It comes down to sense of competence, and knowing limits that bodies CAN handle" to mean that you know the limits of the particular body in front of you can handle...?

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 10:34:54 PM   
Leatherist


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Joined: 12/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

LEatherist..you know I like you..

that being said: I'm taking your next to last statement "It comes down to sense of competence, and knowing limits that bodies CAN handle" to mean that you know the limits of the particular body in front of you can handle...?


Yes,and they are all different. Never assume otherwise-there are no short cuts.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 10:36:28 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I thought so.,.. just thought.. for the sake of the discussion, that needed to be clarified :)

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 10:39:11 PM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Amen

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 11:55:49 PM   
wwwkevinww


Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		This all comes down to SSC.  As a martial artist, you normally don't go for these vital areas to hit unless your fighting for your life.  In a life and death struggle, anything is fair game.

Most brawls or fights are not life and death in civilian life.  Causing massive long lasting damage in a fight doesn't really show superiority.  Showing respect to someone in a fight that isn't life and death shows that you are superior, and in control of the fight. 

I'm finding more and more that people who think they are vanilla are really just in different versions of BDSM.  Its always a question of who is in control.  Control and power struggles are the primary reason relationships don't last as long as they use to.  What's the marriage failure rate today?

(in reply to Midnght)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 11:57:31 PM   
shivermetimbers


Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Midnght



Why would it be irresponsible?
Are you not confidant enough in your tenure that you know how hard you could hit such an area and not cause any damage?


YEAH!!!  Don't take that shit!  Go ahead, tell them EXACTLY how hard you can hit an area.  Come on, show your knowledge and experience over that A-hole!  Don't take it from them!!!!

Prove them wrong!  Just post right here exactly "how hard" you can hit someone based upon energy=mass X velocity squared!  Tell them they don't know what the hell they are talking about, you are an expert at the force created against an internal organ using the above formula taking into account the depth of dermal, adipose, fibrous, and muscle tissue!  Come on!  Don't let that ignorant fool get away with challenging your knowledge of the structures of individual human anatomy, without even the benefit of an extensive review of renal cushioning based upon individual body makeup with absolutely no MRI or CT involved!  An expert like you knows exactly the amount of force that can be applied to a vulnerable region that could possibly cause someone to be on dialysis the rest of their life if they survive!  Fuck them kidneys, they're tough!  You da man!

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:10:43 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Which is why I suggested,"trying it out himself."

Nothing like pissing blood for a week to teach you not to take this shit for granted.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:15:43 AM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shivermetimbers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Midnght

Why would it be irresponsible?
Are you not confidant enough in your tenure that you know how hard you could hit such an area and not cause any damage?


YEAH!!!  Don't take that shit!  Go ahead, tell them EXACTLY how hard you can hit an area.  Come on, show your knowledge and experience over that A-hole!  Don't take it from them!!!!

Prove them wrong!  Just post right here exactly "how hard" you can hit someone based upon energy=mass X velocity squared!  Tell them they don't know what the hell they are talking about, you are an expert at the force created against an internal organ using the above formula taking into account the depth of dermal, adipose, fibrous, and muscle tissue!  Come on!  Don't let that ignorant fool get away with challenging your knowledge of the structures of individual human anatomy, without even the benefit of an extensive review of renal cushioning based upon individual body makeup with absolutely no MRI or CT involved!  An expert like you knows exactly the amount of force that can be applied to a vulnerable region that could possibly cause someone to be on dialysis the rest of their life if they survive!  Fuck them kidneys, they're tough!  You da man!


Ya know if this reply didn't make me laugh so hard i'd probably be pissed.
You're a funny guy. }:>)

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:22:53 AM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Which is why I suggested,"trying it out himself."

Nothing like pissing blood for a week to teach you not to take this shit for granted.

But see Leatherist your suggestion is the extreme end which we all know IS bad.
My questions didn't ask if you hit 'em hard enough can you cause damage now was it. It asked you if you believe it's a no go zone EVER.
If you want to hang in the extreme end of things then there's not much to discuss with you on this topic as you can't see the opposite end of extreme kidney punches. But some how I don't think you are of that extreme only mindset now are you?

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:27:16 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Nope. But I'm not stupid, and I don't dabble in things that might cause injury-"for kicks". When you start goofing around with things you should not-bad shit happens.

I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm so "special" that I can beat the odds EVERY time.

And it only takes ONCE.



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My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:32:18 AM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Nope. But I'm not stupid, and I don't dabble in things that might cause injury-"for kicks". When you start goofing around with things you should not-bad shit happens.

I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm so "special" that I can beat the odds EVERY time.

And it only takes ONCE.




I'm not that arrogant either but it's funny to see how quickly one is condemend for even asking such a question by some folks.

As for the mass imapct data etc.

This is the best I could find a study done on fetal pigs.
Enjoy.
Everyone especially shivermetimbers and alumbrado. }:>)

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17709989

< Message edited by Midnght -- 6/17/2008 12:33:44 AM >

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 60
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