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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:36:33 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Sighs, forgive me for wanting to protect the women who bottom to me from harm.
 
Draw what conclusions you desire from that. I've simply seen too much damage done by idiots over the years-I fail to see any reason to encourage MORE.
 
 

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/17/2008 12:37:11 AM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:40:22 AM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Sighs, forgive me for wanting to protect the women who bottom to me from harm.
 
Draw what conclusions you desire from that. I've simply seen too much damage done by idiots over the years-I fail to see any reason to encourage MORE.
 


I understand really I do.
But it's a pretty hard cold fact the more you tell people NEVER to do something some idiot's going to do it just to be contrary. It just seems to me a better idea to say not a good idead, but if you do you have to be damn careful and light, do you not agree?

< Message edited by Midnght -- 6/17/2008 12:41:18 AM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:41:44 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		No. If you give an idiot the idea that they can do it at all-they will always overdo it.

It's the nature of idiocy.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:43:30 AM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

No. If you give an idiot the idea that they can do it at all-they will always overdo it.

It's the nature of idiocy.


True but books on the market already give them the idea and the challenge.
But that's a continuation for a nother day perhaps it's time for bed sleep well I know I will.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:46:59 AM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Midnght

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

No. If you give an idiot the idea that they can do it at all-they will always overdo it.

It's the nature of idiocy.


True but books on the market already give them the idea and the challenge.
But that's a continuation for a nother day perhaps it's time for bed sleep well I know I will.



I really don't have anything else to say on the topic.

I only know what has always worked for me-and that is to never risk the health or trust of those kind enough to grant it to me. I take that rather seriously.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/17/2008 12:47:23 AM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 12:55:18 AM   
WyldHrt


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Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

... that its up to me to report an injury or a pain that is not right....it is then up to the top to stop and investigate.

Okies, as far as that goes. As has been said, injuries to the kidneys aren't always apparent and/or particularly painful at the time, esp when said injuries happen in the context of a scene.

Nilla example: an old boss of mine pushed a green broke mare too far/ too fast in training, and she finally got fed up and rolled on him. He was in "training headspace" at the time and picked himself up off the ground, returning to the lesson without pause, despite the bruises caused by the full body slam. At the time, he felt no pain or injury at all.

It was only when he pissed bright red blood several hours later that he realized that something was seriously wrong and went to the ER. He recovered, but the meantime wasn't even remotely fun.
JMHO.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 1:17:02 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		BTW, I would trust Leatherist with my safety. You? Not so much.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 6/17/2008 1:19:53 AM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 2:19:28 AM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
Status: offline 		There's no doubt that deep bruising of the lower back can injure the kidneys.
 
Remember the scene in 'Dolores Clayborn' where the f**ktard husband hits his wife across the lower back with a piece of firewood? And how she couldn't sit or move or stand?  That's very dangerous stuff.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but i got bad news from a girlfriend yesterday.  A drug she was given some years ago for heart disease has now caused her kidneys to fail.  So far they're treating her with medication, but eventually she'll need dialysis.
 
IMO, this is NOT a type of 'play' that should be engaged in without great skill and care by the Dom/me. 
 
pinksugarsub

< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 6/17/2008 2:21:46 AM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 3:49:03 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Good morning. i had to look thru quite a few angry retorts and smartass comments to find a sincere response. Yes, injuries can take hours or days to appear. Yes, any serious injury is to be avoided at all costs. Thank you and i agree wholeheartedly.
i would like to state for the record....again....that he was "accused" of kidney shots. He did not come anywhere near my kidneys. He was striking me on my ass....high on it...but trust me....it was all ass. i just wanted to say that once more before i go to work. i could try to say im a dialysis nurse, but im trying so hard to be a good girl these days that ill just go.....crap...close but no cigar....eyes lowered....

Oh one more thing...the DM was there. if there was a kidney shot, he would have stopped it instantly. ive seen this man work as well...his precision is beyond reproach. As is the Dom in question's. This was a case of mistaken reports of bad aim.....i state again...mistaken reports.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply Wyld. im off to work.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 4:14:50 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TieNTeas



I simply fell on my back over someones leg one time.  It didn't hurt, there was no mark or bruise.  But, the next day I was peeing blood in my urine.  Fortunately it seemed to heal itself withing a few days.  Although I did have to have x-rays and an IVP done to be safe.  A few years later I had kidneystones that the doctors thought were related to this. 

There is no way I'd risk the long and short term health of a sub in this way. 


the reason for the IVP in this case is that an injury to the kidneys can block the access routes that are needed to filter toxic waste or to allow normal bloodflow/oxygen to keep the organ healthy. The IVP will insure that all needed arteries are open and functioning. If untreated this damage may not be noticed until the person becomes seriously ill and the kidney is damaged beyond repair.

If the thought of the Dom/me is that they will hit that area lightly so as not to do damage I would call that Dom/me an idiot. What do they plan to do next...take a "light" punch to the subs chest and hope they do not bruise the heart?




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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 4:18:28 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

But it's a pretty hard cold fact the more you tell people NEVER to do something some idiot's going to do it just to be contrary. It just seems to me a better idea to say not a good idead, but if you do you have to be damn careful and light, do you not agree?

So because some idiot is going to go injure someone we should not say that inflicting said injury is wrong and stupid?

Horseshit.  Idiots do not define what is acceptable in this or any other lifestyle. 

  • You strike the kidneys you are fucking up.  Period. 
  • You strike the body with sufficient force and/or repetitions to damage the kidneys you are fucking up.  Period. 
  • You mess with the kidneys in any way you are fucking up.   Period.

If you disagree with any of these statements, you are wrong. Period. End of sentence. End of discussion.


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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 4:19:29 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Never hurt the kidney's. Why would Y/you want to do something that could cause so much pain and even permenant damage.

Why do Y/you think its a no no in the first place?.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 4:20:13 AM   
sirsholly


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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 4:56:28 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

Good morning. i had to look thru quite a few angry retorts and smartass comments to find a sincere response. Yes, injuries can take hours or days to appear. Yes, any serious injury is to be avoided at all costs. Thank you and i agree wholeheartedly.
i would like to state for the record....again....that he was "accused" of kidney shots. He did not come anywhere near my kidneys. He was striking me on my ass....high on it...but trust me....it was all ass. i just wanted to say that once more before i go to work. i could try to say im a dialysis nurse, but im trying so hard to be a good girl these days that ill just go.....crap...close but no cigar....eyes lowered....

Oh one more thing...the DM was there. if there was a kidney shot, he would have stopped it instantly. ive seen this man work as well...his precision is beyond reproach. As is the Dom in question's. This was a case of mistaken reports of bad aim.....i state again...mistaken reports.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply Wyld. im off to work.


The OP got sincere and factual responses from the beginning, and ignored them while announcing that he already 'knew the answers', when he clearly did not.

You want to brag about being a dialysis nurse while ignoring that kidneys can be injured without being struck directly, go for it.

Neither of you are going to get the answers you are hoping for, because the laws of physics aren't going to make an exception in your case.


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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 5:25:39 AM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
kidneys can be injured without being struck directly


While I do know this is possible I would think that it would take significant force to cause such an injury. I am not advocating that anyone intentionally go out and do such a thing because the consequences can definitely be severe. I've actually had it happen once. I was in a car wreck that resulted in both my kidneys being bruised. Beyond that though, I have participated in very heavy impact play my entire life and have never had any issues with my kidneys....not even when they have been accidently struck. So I guess it's a risk decision between possible and probable....or else we would have to advocate that no one should engage in heavy impact play ever.

I've also noticed that people are often unaware of the location of the kidneys. They are located high in the back of the abdomen and are protected by the spine and rib cage, although they do generally hang at least partially below the rib. Many times I have played with dominants who thought they were just at the top of the butt.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 6/17/2008 5:28:22 AM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 5:36:55 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		I've gotten smacked in the kidneys a few times... Usually it's accompanied by a nausious feeling... once it made me puke- (20 minutes later, go figure) and once I was peeing blood for a few days. Needless to say, any so called "dom" that tries aiming for them, will first get a anatomy lesson, and if he continues to be an idiot, I'll cut the scene off and leave him standing there with his little paddle.

I don't have time for renal failure and kidney stones.


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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 5:38:18 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline 		Mist is close...the kidneys are located to the left of the verterbral column at the small of the back. The left kidney is located slightly higher than the right and with some people the left kidney might be slightly protected by the rib cage. The right kidney is not protected at all. 

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 6:36:48 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I think that many people get confused by the reference of the small of the back. I know that I tend to think of the small of the back as that area just above the butt (the place that is common for lower back tattoos). I know my ribs are not near that area and when I had my IVP done they had to push the probe up underneath my ribs on both sides in the back in order to view the kidneys.. I have not been able to find a diagram that shows both kidneys as being to the left...or that the right is entirely unprotected. If you have one I would appreciate being able to check it out. Anyway, here are a few diagrams I found.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/497969/99764/Diagram-showing-the-location-of-the-kidneys-in-the-abdominal#assembly=url~http%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2FEBchecked%2Ftopic-art%2F497969%2F45258%2FThe-human-kidneys-in-situ&tab=active~checked%2Citems~checked

http://www.indexedvisuals.com/scripts/ivstock/pic.asp?id=118-100

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney



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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 6:44:12 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline 		Mist...no to a diagram...just personal experience. This is a really rough way to do it...but i would say about 3-4 inches to the left of the spine and slightly above the natural waistline for the right kidney. And i assume when the "small" of the back is used it means the entire region of the lower back


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RE: The Kidneys - 6/17/2008 7:35:10 AM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: d1ll1gaf

The kidney's are a delicate structure and to the best of my knowledge there is no way to intentionally target them with any certainty that you won't cause any permanent damage. That being said don't panic if the kidney's are accidentally struck (i.e. a whip / strap curls around further than expected) as the human body is generally tougher than most people give it credit for. I spent over 10 years fighting in the martial arts at the national / international level (heavyweight division with no maximum) and one of the most common attacks was to attack the kidneys by curling your foot around when attacking from the front (easier to show / do than describe). As such I have been checked by doctors many times and none of the damage my kidneys sustained in any fight has caused any long-term consequences.


This too has been my experience from similar situations. In a street or real fight where everything goes (and I do mean everything) I use both kicks, punches and hand strikes to both kidheys and livver with the intention of causing internal dammage and bleading..

There are times in a play area, I will initially place a kidney belt on a slave untill I have got my eye in (if I have had a lengthy lay off) or experimenting with techniques. Many other Dominants poo poo this idea and tell me it detracts from the visual beauty and down grades my personal reputation in the eyes of others there.. I care not the safety of the person I play with is my prime consern..

Iron Bear
(Incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent)
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

Omar Khayyam 1048 CE to 1123 CE (Persian Mathematician, Scientist, Astronomer, Philosopher & Poet).

< Message edited by IronBear -- 6/17/2008 7:36:46 AM >

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