RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:09:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

"Women are reliant on the men to use them"?  As someone pointed out earlier, it only requires women closing their legs. 



It gets better and better! I'll refrain from replying to your antiquated, plain wrong ideas. We're disgressing from the subject of the original post. Sorry, Stella - wasn't my goal to do so.

PS: still, for your information, I feel obliged to attach the link to this site




rulemylife -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:20:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

"Women are reliant on the men to use them"?  As someone pointed out earlier, it only requires women closing their legs. 





It gets better and better! I'll refrain from replying to your antiquated, plain wrong ideas. We're disgressing from the subject of the original post. Sorry, Stella - wasn't my goal to do so.

PS: still, for your information, I feel obliged to attach the link to this site


Yes, I've noticed that about you.  You never respond to valid criticisms of your posts but simply become rudely dismissive as if anyone who disagrees with you is too unintelligent to waste your time on.

PS to your PS:  How does this link in anyway support what you are saying?  Do we men use our wily cunning to trick you poor, innocent, helpless creatures into having sex without a condom?     




kittinSol -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:23:40 AM)

Because saying that all that women need to do is 'keep their legs shut' is so informative, and constructive. That's literally all you said. It was plain offensive. Perhaps you don't realise this?

Look, it wasn't the subject of the thread, my initial post made it plain that it wasn't my intention to change the subject. That's it.





kdsub -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:24:27 AM)

Now be honest...how many of you read every word of stellas post?...I tried I really did but it was too rambling and idiot to follow so I gave up.

The first paragraph got my eyes rolling...what the hell does the "situation in Iowa" have to do with your post...who has the hidden agenda... the boogieman secret big business government?

Who is trying to sterilize who...and why?


Ramble Ramble…BADDDDDD America….Ramble Ramble…..BADDD BADDDD America.

Your too rich…. You are too hard working… you feed too many people…you are to industrious… you make us jealous….BADDDDDD America

You should be poor… You should have 10 kids when you can’t feed them…You should not work hard and succeed in life…BADDDDDDDDDD America

I have a few ideas on who should be sterilized myself….BADDDDDDD Butch




Leatherist -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:27:26 AM)

In the long run,the same things that lead to overpopulation in a natural sense will also end up controlling it. Promiscuous behavior with no protection leads to children-it also leads to aids-which is going to control the populations of those indulging in said behavior.
 
 It is already endemic in Asia and Africa, and I have to wonder at what it is doing in India and China. Not being able to afford a condom can and will kill you.




subtee -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:30:46 AM)

~FR

Stella come back...!




rulemylife -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:32:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Because saying that all that women need to do is 'keep their legs shut' is so informative, and constructive. That's literally all you said. It was plain offensive. Perhaps you don't realise this?

Look, it wasn't the subject of the thread, my initial post made it plain that it wasn't my intention to change the subject. That's it.




Read the PS I added above?  Are men so all-powerful that you don't/can't decide for yourself when and how to have sex? 

By the way, I didn't say it, and the person who did was female. I just agree with it.  Scroll up and read the whole thread. 




kittinSol -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:33:01 AM)

My lips are sealed [;)] .




Termyn8or -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:35:03 AM)

Thought I was radical did you ?

Obviously we can't simply sterilize everyone. There would be no more people. However I have long advocated that it could be a requirement for certain things.

As part of a social engineering plan, let's say some Woman is on welfare. When she applied she had X kids. If she has been on welfare a year or more, no money would be disbursed for any subsequent children. A free abortion is offered and it comes with a free sterilization. If sterilization is refused then either have the kid and make due on what you get now, or pay out of pocket for the abortion.

Abortion is murder, and a plan like this could make it so we have to commit less murders in the future. What's more the net effect would be less of a burden on society by those who don't want to work.

But I think the OP was also meant to address the environment. So we need not limit this to the recipients of public assistance. Eliminate all child tax credits for more than two. Actually maybe do away with it altogether. Even working family's children tax the system by using the schools and a few other things. Why should they pay less when they cost more ?

In my highest mind I am against social engineering, but really, people are dumb as a post. There are necessary evils. For example I am for the legalization of all drugs. If people had any brains it would work, there would be no black market. The crime rate would plummet overnight. But I am not dumb, I see why it couldn't work. In this (and probably many) countries people are smart enough to use freedom.

You see I am qualified to judge because I am smart enough to use freedom. I do. When I decide to do something I couldn't care less about whether it is legal. Right and wrong are a totally different issue. However in a society where I could plunk down my credit card at a local store and buy some weed, I would have to ask myself if I might get myself in trouble financially doing it.

And rampant comsumer spending is getting bad. Everybody has to have a new plasma TV. Thing is they are so cheap because of exploitation of labor in foreign countries that almost everyone can afford them. But their life is very limited and you can expect to have to buy a new one in 2-4 years, almost for sure. And that is whether you use it alot or not.

So the process goes on. In China do you think the elite setup the economy to benefit the poor ? Hell no, they couldn't care less. They did it to make money. And by now they have made enough to buy and sell the US.

In a way I think they have actually invented the perpetual motion machine in the form of what they call the ecomony. Genus : vicious cycle. Sub genus : Trap.

However like any other such purported machine, it cannot be perpetual. As they print more and more money, most of which is taken by the rich, the machine is eventually going to stop.

It will stop when money gets down to the point where it is no longer a viable medium of exchange for certain things. People are already trying to take the wind out of it's sails so to speak, by converving and carpooling a stuff like that. This is but a drop in the bucket.

Nature has a way of correcting itself and the elite, as smart as they may be, do not know everything. Let me tell you something they don't know.

Time is going to comewhen prices are so out of reach  that you are going to see groups forming to carpool for example. We will see more gardening, perhaps in areas that are zoned right some cattle being raised and sold direct, like on a black market. Small cartels of middle class and working poor pooling resources, supporting gardens that grow food and who knows what else. People will do things for themselves and not let their money go through the system so much.

People will realize that there are few things that money has to buy. People will barter. Mow your grass for a season for a fraction of the produce from your garden. Or for fixing the gutters on the house.

The only money that goes out is for gas for the mower, or nails or other materials. Dollars can't be used as a measure, it would have to be units or credits or something. Something stable. Don't even pretend it is backed by anything but your trust in your friends and neighbors. I nice size bag of veggies could be a credit. Fixing your car could be whatever the mechanic says, but people should be hip to the relative value of things and if the quote is too high, walk.

I think the elite are shooting themselves in the foot. They are going to cause some unintended consequences for themselves. Case in point, the conversion to digital TV. Poor families with five kids generally have probably four TVs these days. Now you have to buy a box and you get coupons for two. So you get two.

What happens when families are forced to watch TV together sometimes ? They may discuss things and develop their mind. Other TVs in the house can still run DVDs or video games but the money is not there to rent or buy them. So it's either the same old game or go watch what the others are watching.

The elite are smart, of that there is no doubt, but I don't think I could call them intelligent. They are like a savant. They only know certain things.

People have a tendency to move away from what they call an impovershed area. They grow up in the inner city, and then the ones who make it financially move out. The entrepeneurs who started out in the suburbs who "rise above it all" move to big places out in the sticks, not to return to that grubby middle class suburb.

They become ignorant to the condition in the old neighborhood. In some cases their political views change. They try to build ivory towers so to speak just as those who make it to their former position do.

By the time they start even considering political power, they are so far removed from the commoner that they are not qualified for political power, yet the elite are the ones who have all the political power.

And they did not get there by being nice.

Buying seeds, gasoline, car parts, paying utilities and motgages or rent. That is where the money will go when the shit hits the fan. People in a neighborhood with enough room for a substantial garden will do so, they might even get together and agree who is going to grow what and there is some barter going on when the crops come in. One guy might have enough money to buy a side of beef and have it butchered, then trade that for other goods and services.

And people are going to have to make some actual money of course. So I let my mechanic use my yard and jack, and a few other things to do a job. He owes a cut for that, but I say no. Pay your phone bill, in case my car breaks down.

In other words, there will be less money going through the "system". That is what can hurt them. They might take notice. But as it's been said, 80% of the poor in this country have a TV. Imagine if they didn't.

Imagine if people sat around trying to find ways to be productive, to make ends meet. Imagine if instead of renting, buying or stealing DVDs and video games, they went back to chess and card games like pinochle. Exercise. After the garden is taken care of, of course. People making/building useful things in the basement.

All this from a lack of entertainment, but then human nature of some of the commoners will be to fuck. Some are going to be counterproductive. Well they better get something going for them, because in a barter system there should be no charity. We already only doing this because of strife, and you are going to compound the problem because you can't stop fucking ? Out.

That is the change I believe we are going to see. Nature will right itself. They gave us the internet and now Americans have access to news worldwide, BIG mistake. The elite are becoming aloof and ignorant.

This has happened in many societies, and most fall. But now the elite are shooting for a worldwide solidarity, for the elite of course. They almost have it. They think that being global will protect them, and it will to some extent. But in their never abating quest for more, it is coming to every corner of the globe. Let them have their solidarity. They will destroy the euro like they're doing to the dollar, then the yuan, the the pound, not necessarily in that order of course. But by dragging everything down in their quest, they are going to hit rock bottom.

Wait till someone shows up to buy a tomato, and I say "whaddya got ?". he says "money". I say no. Mow my grass.

That will be the only way for people to survive. They can't prop this up much longer.

T




cjan -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:52:39 AM)

People, please, read the fucking OP. If you have time to post a response, at least be good enough to take the time to read and comprehend what you think you are responding to.

That's the problem. Not enough people take the time to read a lengthy and thoughtful, and sometimes nuanced OP , to say nothing of the thread, before they feel the need to jump in and start grinding their own, well worn axe.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 9:56:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Now be honest...how many of you read every word of stellas post?...I tried I really did but it was too rambling and idiot to follow so I gave up.

The first paragraph got my eyes rolling...what the hell does the "situation in Iowa" have to do with your post...who has the hidden agenda... the boogieman secret big business government?

Who is trying to sterilize who...and why?


Ramble Ramble…BADDDDDD America….Ramble Ramble…..BADDD BADDDD America.

Your too rich…. You are too hard working… you feed too many people…you are to industrious… you make us jealous….BADDDDDD America

You should be poor… You should have 10 kids when you can’t feed them…You should not work hard and succeed in life…BADDDDDDDDDD America

I have a few ideas on who should be sterilized myself….BADDDDDDD Butch
I read her post twice and, other than lacking a summary, found it well-written, thoughtful, and well-organized.

I don't understand your criticism. You seem to be saying that you are unable to understand the complexities of her argument. Dismissing an argument because one cannot understand it is not a very impressive debating technique, IMO.




kittinSol -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:09:43 AM)

Poverty is frightening. It's easier to blame destitution on the victims rather than to agree to take collective responsibility for the roots and consequences of poverty. There's this 'meritocratic' mentality that still prevails, with the philosophy that 'anyone can pick themselves up by the bootstraps'. Though if you're thrown in a pool and you're unable to swim, you'll be lucky if you can just keep your head above water... for a little while at least.

Capitalism needs an underclass of people to exist - not everybody can own shares and it needs people to buy its products. As you say correctly, it's necessary that a certain amount of people remain unemployed: means of production no longer rely on pure human interraction, as so much is automatized.

Human life is painfully cheap - and those at the top of the foodchain make damned sure nobody reaches up the ladder to compete with them.




stella41b -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:15:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

So does China. Parts of South America. There are other countries bent on self-destruction in Africa. On and on.

My question is why use the US as example when oh golly gee we could sterilize Africa and rid ourselves of having to assist the multitude of countries there that are in horrendous disarray and disease ridden to boot?

That is why my response to the OP was WTF is your problem with America. It still is my response.



Ah but you see, I don't have problems with America or Americans. My question was a rhetorical one, the States is but one example in the West.. Surely you didn't think that I was serious about sterilization of Americans, or did you?




stella41b -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:16:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Stella, I dont see it as an american thing, more of a western "civilisation" situation, the uk and canada as well as tons of european countries.


I agree.




jlf1961 -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:21:25 AM)

Contrary to popular belief, the United States has less of an impact on pollution than the growing economies of China, former soviet republics, and the MILLIONS of acres of rain forest burned annually in Central and South America.

As for AIDS, patiant zero, as it so happens was an English merchant sailor who died of the disease in 1959, and in fact the form he had was SIV, Simian immunodeficiency virus, contracted by eating monkey meat.  That really takes the wind out of the sails of those people claiming AIDS is the wrath of god.

Now, as for the people calling for sterilization of the poor, if you look closely at their politics, you will see similiarities with the Nazi philosophy, thus the arguement is flawed on both sides.

While it is possible to feed every one on the planet with what is being produced presently, may I point out that the production has been dropping over the years.

As for Capitalism dividing people into victims and others, again the arguement is flawed.   Simply because the very nature of Capitalism creates the three income groups.  It is not capitalism that makes the distinction, but the people within the society.

Finally, before one even tries to blame Americans for their 'beliefs,' I would point out with more than enough historic proof, that the British Empire had one of the best records in the world for using up the natural resources of a colony and granting independance only after there was nothing left.  Case in point, India.

When the British granted India independance, there was absolutely nothing left that the Indian government could build an economy on.




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:26:15 AM)

"I am the creator?"
"You are the creator."
"You're wrong! Jackson Roykirk, your creator, is dead. You have mistaken me for him – you are in error. You did not discover your mistake – you have made two errors. You are flawed and imperfect. And you have not corrected by sterilization – you have made three errors!"
"We've got to get rid of it while it's trying to think."
"Your logic was impeccable, Captain – we are in grave danger."
"Nomad – you are imperfect! Execute your prime function!"
"Faulty! Faulty! Must sterilize! – STER-I-LIZE!"
"...It's 'space-happy!' It thinks I'm its... mother."
"And that is the only thing that has saved us until now."









kdsub -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:27:07 AM)

It seems some guilt-ridden people ashamed of their good fortune must ease their guilt by condemning the very system that got them there.

While at the same time those less fortunate throughout the world are trying their best to emulate that very same system…and succeeding like never before in the history of mankind.

Because of the shining example of the fruits of capitalism and democratic freedoms …warts and all….the so called third world is beginning to realize its economic power and improving their well being.

It has not happened before because super powers of the past were more interested in conquest then economic success.

Oh yes there are many problems but overall the world is better for capitalism and democracy.

Butch




shorty21 -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:34:57 AM)

Not only kentucky...half of west virginia....maybe some in arkansas too...




kittinSol -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:41:04 AM)

No - personal feelings have little to do with anything. One can coldly analyse a situation without feeling personally implicated.

I haven't particularly benefited from the fruits of capitalism, but I consider myself extremely fortunate. This doesn't mean I have to be forever grateful to a system that could do with major improvements.




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? (6/17/2008 10:41:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shorty21

Not only kentucky...half of west virginia....maybe some in arkansas too...


Hey I don't resemble that remark smile,I live in WV and only third cousins are fair game..Have you noticed the birth rate dropping in theses big city's after the federal government quit adding to the checks after 5 kids...Unfortunate this is a chain that won't be broken, one welfare mother after another for the next generations..bounty




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