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RiotGirl -> Stray kitty (11/3/2005 7:33:08 AM)

Okey Dokey, so on Halloween as i was walking around the neighborhood tricker treating with a friend, Master, and 3 short ppl, this little kitty started following me.

Named him/her Coon as she looked like a racoon. So she follows me home, i promptly feed her. Now she isnt a feral cat, and i was unsure if she was even a stray. Though she startled easy, hesitated to be petted. Still needed lots of slow consistant movements, she was very friendly. Even ended up purring as i pet her.

My issue is this. i've 4 cats and a dog. Though i'd like to keep the stray as mainly an outside cat as she adjusts to me and life with out worry, i'm having a hard time becoming one happy family. i did bring her inside (as my kittens who arent so kittenish anymore) kept chasing her off. So i put Coon in the dog kennel for the night, thinking it would be safe interaction, and purely on their initiative.. it didnt seem to work. 3 days later they STILL hiss at her and her at them.

They arent getting along. Anyone think they ever will? i know cats are territorial, and they also have a hierarchy of sorts. Found out my pure white male cat, Snow is the leader as he was the one that sat infront of the cage and hissed his little butt off.

Though i've been taking the kitty in at night, and keeping him seperate from the others, i throw them ALL out during the day. i just wish MY kitties wouldnt run him off. (but he keeps coming back)

Anyone know how else i can create a more socially acceptant atmosphere? So the stray kitty can be "one of the pack" (the pack being my 4 cats?)



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 7:50:17 AM)

The best way to introduce a new cat is to put them in a room by themselves with no interaction with other cats for a week. This lets the new cat get adjusted to all the smells and environment on their own, and lets the other cats get used to a "new cat presence" without having to deal with sudden direct confrontations.

After a week or so you can open the door and see what happens. Hitting and spitting and posturing is to be expected, but outright attacks should be stopped with a squirt of water, or a quick firm tap on the nose. A half hour of "together" time should be good for a first go and then separate them again.

Continue this for awhile and hopefully the cats will find their own equilibrium. It will likely take at least a few weeks/months.

Unfortunately though, some cats just don't get along with eachother and the best you can hope for is calm truce with occasional qater squirts at the bully cat.



lonewolf05 -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 8:23:37 AM)

although i hate it when people put animals outside...it is none of my business......

i suggest........you wash the kitty..and the rest of them...so they all smell the same...and see if it helps.

animals go by scent,.,., and the new kitty may have a smell the rest don't like.

i wish you kept em all inside...it just bothers me wondering about their health outside,,,but i AM a worry wart and i love to spoil n pamper critters.

woofie




anopheles -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 9:13:18 AM)

I've found that cats take a LONG time to adjust to things. When we got our big old dog, the cat wouldn't come downstairs for at least a week, and even now, he's very wary of the dog, about 8 months later.

You don't want to keep the cat having traumatic run-ins with the other cat, because that is just going to make that adjustment period even longer. If it looks like it's not going to end though, I would just put some food and water outside for your new cat, and let him be one of those outdoor cats that just comes home for a little nourishment and then goes on about their business.

--Anopheles



RiotGirl -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 10:02:41 AM)

Wolfie = ) He's a stray, all he knows is outside, and i'm not teaching him about the litter box. i got my hands full as it is with 4 cats! Almost have them pottied trained to the outside. My kitties have all their health, shots and are well taken care.

and personally wolfie, i think its wrong to lock them indoors. Its a jail. Animals, like ppl need freedom. it locks them in, shuts them out from the world. Just imagine that tree they're dreaming of climbing. (yes my dog has her freedom too) She can come or go if she pleases. Locking an animal up in a house, reminds me too much of locking ppl up in jail. Taint pleasant, so i dont do it.

As for the new kitty, i've been keeping them seperate. Washing them sounds like a good idea! Thanks. Keeping my boys and girls away from her. (2 boys, 3 girls) So far its working, i just think it'd be neat for all of them to be apart of the same pack.



lonewolf05 -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 10:10:41 AM)

i didnt TRY to upset ya. i have too much respect for ya for that.

just a worry wart. ticks mites fleas thorns nails whatever ---outside is a rough place.///esp for one SO tiny and not experienced...i worry if they will come-home-safe...plus the dog pound and people that shoot cats stray dogs that kill cats........etc etc

i like MY critters inside.

be safe take care
woofie



perverseangelic -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 10:14:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

and personally wolfie, i think its wrong to lock them indoors. Its a jail. Animals, like ppl need freedom. it locks them in, shuts them out from the world. Just imagine that tree they're dreaming of climbing. (yes my dog has her freedom too) She can come or go if she pleases. Locking an animal up in a house, reminds me too much of locking ppl up in jail. Taint pleasant, so i dont do it.


I think it's ok to have cats outside in certain circumstances. For example, my kitties last year had a fenced (including roofed with chicken wire) kitty run in the back yard that they had full access too. However, in most places in the US now, it just plane isn't safe to allow a cat free access to the outdoors.

Because I'm in an appartment this year, my cats get suprvised, on-leash trips to the park, but there is no =way= I would let them run outside without supervision.

To me, it's a trade off--give my kitty a long, happy, non-diseased life indoors, with supervised trips outdoors, or let them go out as they like and risk cars, dogs, illness, other people who want cute cats, getting lost, animal pickups, etc.

I've transitioned many many kitties from outdoor to indoor. As long as they are provided with lots to do, lots of veritcal places to climb, lots of places to hide (like you would for any pet) they do well, and they live SO much longer.

I'm not trying to tell Riot to bring her kitties in, though I admit I find it preferable. Rather, I'm trying to help dispell the idea that keeping kitties indoors is like jail. It -is- a smaller space, however it's a smaller space with hundereds of things to do and people who spend hours waiting on their pleasure :)



Kasia -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 10:48:32 AM)

Nothing much you can do. If your cats are not used to having addition to the "family" they will probably take some time to accept the new one. If they ever do.
I had heaps of cats but they were all used to newcomers and actually knew quite well I didnt allow any fights.

The good thing is you say it is "she" - give them couple of moths and the male will settle everything nicely once she becomes interesting to him. If it was another male I would be scared for him though.

I had males being expelled by males, females accepting all the kittens and even males accepting and raising the whole packs. The only one that was never accepted by anyone was a neutred female (and she was nasty to all other cats too).

Cats have lot of character and each one is unique..... they may settle quite nicely after you give them all some time.



sub4hire -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 12:33:53 PM)

More than one vet has suggested to me more than once to use baby powder so they all smell alike. It takes time.
Also doesn't seem to work all of the time.
Currently I am raising a stray...he was a week old when we found him. Now approaching 3 week's. The other cats are not the quite fond of him but they will not hurt him knowing he is a baby.
In time they will all learn to get along...it just takes that time.



maybemaybenot -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 1:18:49 PM)

RiotGirl:

I used to be a "Foster Home" for kitties and cats, until they were adopted out from the shelter I work with. It is always a process introducing new ones to the older residents.
LA gives good advice and I am adding a few links to the bottom of my post that can add more ideas.
I stopped fostering kitties when my own Jezzabelle died and her brother Tweedyboy was very sad and stressed out. Last fall, two years after Jezzabelle died I got a new kitten. It took 4 months before Tweedyboy accepted her. To this day if she gets on his nerves he will hiss and bat at her. But he is an older cat, so that is to be expected. I wouldn't expect the same since yours are young and more adaptable.

One thing I will add is: don't be surprised if your older cats get pissed off at you and act differently. This will pass and giving the older ones the same attention you always did helps them with the transition.

maybemaybenot

PS: Don't forget to spay or nueter them !!! ~ smile~

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art20360.asp

http://www.greensboro.com/arfp/feline_intros.htm

http://azaz.essortment.com/introducingnew_rhzw.htm




Rayne58 -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 4:38:57 PM)

Our older cat was alone for a couple of years after our other cat disappeared, and we were sure he would never accept another cat into his territory. My daughter found a little black and white male kitten on her way home from school and brought it home. I put him in the cat cage in the middle of the room and when the old cat came in he could see and investigate the kitten but couldn't hurt him. Kitten was climbing all over the cage trying to get out and play, old cat sniffed all around the cage but didn't seem hostile.

A couple of days later I let them out together. Kitten tried to play but was biffed by old cat. But it only took a week and they were actually playing together [:)] I had a photo of them curled up sleeping together not long after kitten arrived. They were always fed separately however - old cat resented kitten coming and disturbing him while he was eating, so old cat ate in the kitchen, kitten in the bathroom with the door shut until old cat had finished.

Old cat was probably lonely, even though he had us to fuss over him he missed other feline company. They are still together 6 years later, though I'm no longer part of the family. I entrusted them both to my daughter. She's since found another kitten to join the family (female this time). From all accounts all 3 cats get on well.



windchymes -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 6:55:31 PM)

lonewolf,

The picture of the German Shepherd is gorgeous...is it an actual pet?

wc



DesertRat -> RE: Stray kitty (11/3/2005 11:35:21 PM)

I pretty much agree with what you've said, LuckyAlbatross. Otis and I had been together for 9 years when I found Daisy in the alley. It wasn't practical for me to keep them separated at first, but it turned out to not be necessary. He was pretty nice to her for the first week. I guess after that, he considered her an intrusion and proceeded to be a real dickhead for the next couple of months. By the third month, they had worked out all their issues and now they are quite the loving pair...with occasional big brother/little sister type spats.

I believe cats should not be allowed outside. Too dangerous. Mine are neutered and fully vaccinated, but too many messed up things can happen to them out there.

Bob




luvdragonx -> RE: Stray kitty (11/4/2005 12:55:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

I pretty much agree with what you've said, LuckyAlbatross. Otis and I had been together for 9 years when I found Daisy in the alley. It wasn't practical for me to keep them separated at first, but it turned out to not be necessary. He was pretty nice to her for the first week. I guess after that, he considered her an intrusion and proceeded to be a real dickhead for the next couple of months. By the third month, they had worked out all their issues and now they are quite the loving pair...with occasional big brother/little sister type spats.

I believe cats should not be allowed outside. Too dangerous. Mine are neutered and fully vaccinated, but too many messed up things can happen to them out there.

Bob




Tell that to my cat, lol. He's classic alley cat - home by day, runnin' the streets by night. We live in the burbs, so there's not much going on around here I guess. We tried to keep him in for fear of something bad happening, but we reached the point of no return when he sat outside my bedroom door and yowled all night. I guess he gets bored when we're all asleep.

Of course shortly after we started letting him out, his dumb butt goes next door where 2 Jack Russells live. The dogs got hold of him and my neighbor came over and asked us if we had a gray cat. At that point I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to explain his demise to the unmentionables since they didn't want him outside in the first place. We go next door and the cat is up the tree. I was out in the cold for 2 hours with all sorts of contraptions, the last one being a clothes hamper duct-taped to an 8ft length of 1x2 with a can of tuna in it. I finally gave up. 3 hours after that, I shine the flashlight in the tree and don't see his eyes. So we open the front door - in trots the cat like nothing happned. Not a single scratch, bruise, cut, scrape - nothing. I figure he gave up 4 or 5 lives that night.

At any rate he's still got at least 4 lives left, so in the interest of world peace (so we don't have to hear him bitching all night) we let him out when he wants to go.



DesertRat -> RE: Stray kitty (11/4/2005 8:36:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

I pretty much agree with what you've said, LuckyAlbatross. Otis and I had been together for 9 years when I found Daisy in the alley. It wasn't practical for me to keep them separated at first, but it turned out to not be necessary. He was pretty nice to her for the first week. I guess after that, he considered her an intrusion and proceeded to be a real dickhead for the next couple of months. By the third month, they had worked out all their issues and now they are quite the loving pair...with occasional big brother/little sister type spats.

I believe cats should not be allowed outside. Too dangerous. Mine are neutered and fully vaccinated, but too many messed up things can happen to them out there.

Bob




Tell that to my cat, lol. He's classic alley cat - home by day, runnin' the streets by night. We live in the burbs, so there's not much going on around here I guess. We tried to keep him in for fear of something bad happening, but we reached the point of no return when he sat outside my bedroom door and yowled all night. I guess he gets bored when we're all asleep.

Of course shortly after we started letting him out, his dumb butt goes next door where 2 Jack Russells live. The dogs got hold of him and my neighbor came over and asked us if we had a gray cat. At that point I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to explain his demise to the unmentionables since they didn't want him outside in the first place. We go next door and the cat is up the tree. I was out in the cold for 2 hours with all sorts of contraptions, the last one being a clothes hamper duct-taped to an 8ft length of 1x2 with a can of tuna in it. I finally gave up. 3 hours after that, I shine the flashlight in the tree and don't see his eyes. So we open the front door - in trots the cat like nothing happned. Not a single scratch, bruise, cut, scrape - nothing. I figure he gave up 4 or 5 lives that night.

At any rate he's still got at least 4 lives left, so in the interest of world peace (so we don't have to hear him bitching all night) we let him out when he wants to go.


There is no such thing as a "classic alley cat", except in the minds of people who want to trivialize cats and relegate them to the status of disposable pets. Have you considered the possibilty of finding your cat a good home? The newspaper in my town runs free ads for 6 days for those people who are trying to find homes for cats or dogs.

Bob



RiotGirl -> RE: Stray kitty (11/4/2005 8:55:06 AM)

Well we can all agree to disagree, Right DesertRat? Personally i think that was uncalled for comments. There is no such thing as a "classic alley cat", except in the minds of people who want to trivialize cats and relegate them to the status of disposable pets Rude and uncalled for really. Obviously "alley cat" has a negative meaning to you, but dont go placing YOUR negative meaning onto HER words. Because i can see from her writing she didnt mean it in a negative way. This was a very nice thread about cats, and i've loved everyone's responses, even if i didnt agree with them. Its nice to get other's perspectives and i am not naive enough to believe they will all follow right along with mine. Which is why i can RESPECT other's opionons, and your's up until you got nasty. Please try and do the same. It would of been better to say "well, personally, i dont like the term alley cat, it makes me think people are calling cats disposable" Its not too hard, to state how you feel in a respectable way.

i think you should be an adult and apologize for your lapse in manners. (As i just read what i have written to Master, i told him "i know whats going to happen. She's going to come back and say something nasty to you for you're commentsand then we're going to have another dumb flame war, and i'm not having it. i have a nice thread about cats, i'm not letting them ruin it"



RiotGirl -> RE: Stray kitty (11/4/2005 9:19:31 AM)

Hiya all, thanks for the responses. i enjoyed the stories on you're cats = ) i've had a few alley cats in my time too. Usually what i do, as all they know is the outside world, is try to adjust them to the inside world while they still have their outside world. As much as you've tried to convince me its not like jail, it still seems that way to me. Its like, you lock them into a box and you keep them from the world. Just like jail. They're regulated, controlled every moment. They cant go, they cant leave, their like little captives. Just like jail. i'm not telling anyone they are wrong for what they believe do, just that i dont agree with them. AND for the recorded, i commonly joke that one has to learn the language of "moo" to talk to anyone around here. As i really am surrounded by cows. 10 miles in either direction to reach a main road. Yet i am still in a housing development. But like really, not even the pizza places will deliver out here, yet i'm not in the back woods. Just feels like it = ) So its relatively safe. When i lived in apt in Hong kong, the two cats i had were regulated to the apt. My Squirt HATED it. When we got back to the states, he snuck out and was gone for 3 days. He'd continuelly take off for days on end. Other then city life, if they "know" the outside, i think its just as good for them. Stray cats, alley cats, its all they know. That freedom. The freedom to go two miles away, and come back if they choose, or climb a tree and chase a bird. they have the freedom to go, do, be as they please. So for now, my stray is in at night and out during the day. Tho it got kicked out last night as she/he tried to pee on my bed right infront of me. <grins>

My cats are also neutered and fully vaccinated. so i will be patient with the cats. Though i must say yesterday morning i was woken up to a suprise. SOME how the cats got into the room the stray was in, and the DOG and well i woke up to them all screaming pretty much. But no fighting so thats good. Last night my little stray (before i brought him into my room) was sleeping on my daughters bed where momma cat usually sleeps. Suprise Surpise. Wooo! The stray kitty set off SUCH a funky smell that i swear she was eating rotten eggs before hand. Granted no ones literally fought, they've only screamed at each other, which i suppose is the least i can ask for.

Thanks for the links, i appreciate it and will check it out later. As for the bath though, i was talking to Master about it, he doesnt think its a good idea as said stray kitty might throw a living fit. (and i remember the last stray kitty i gave a bath too, i had claw marks from my elbow's to my hands)

But momma cat isnt too worried. Though the little stray (prolly between around 4 months, almost full grown, but not as my kittens arent full grown and its smaller then them) throws a fit at ALL of my animals.

Oh and ahem, non of my animals are disposable. Infact animals arent disposable too me. And if you dont believe me, go call up Miami Dade Police Animal shelter and ask them if they found out why several of their animals went missing from the euthanasia room. In fact ASK them, why there was a big investigation into their shelter. Ask them what happened. Infact ask them, why they are too lazy to drive pit bulls up to Browerd county and instead put them to sleep. i'm sure i'm abit infamous around there for the "fits" i would throw because of how disposable they felt the animals were there.




DesertRat -> RE: Stray kitty (11/4/2005 9:21:20 AM)

I think it was a nice thread about cats, too. Except for the comments about how they "need" to be outside. In my opinion, that view is wrong. Her cat got beat up by two dogs, for example. But it still has some lives left?

I didn't say anything that requires apology. I think people should do a little research and not rely on comforting myths.

Bob

~edited to add: After thoroughly reading your latest post about some of your views and activities done to help critters, I have a very high opinion of you. I apologize for my harsh tone if you think it messes your thread. However, I do not apologize at all for the message of my post, nor for my rather severe judgment of many pet owners. I should have spent more time and figured out a way to say something that sounded less harsh.



luvdragonx -> RE: Stray kitty (11/4/2005 2:09:18 PM)

To Riotgirl - thank you for being the type of person to call things like you see them. I appreciate you stepping in, as I might have said something in the heat of the moment that I might have regretted. Reading your words diffused that so I can respond in a civil manner.

To Desert Rat

While I can appreciate your commitment to your belief and views on pet ownership, I didn't appreciate your condescension nor did I appreciate your judgement on the type of pet owner you think I am. I in NO WAY feel that pets of any type are disposable and I really resent your deciding that about me without knowing the first thing about me or how I run my house.

I used the term 'alley-cat' lightly, as was clear to at least RiotGirl. Matter of fact, the whole TONE of my post was light. We all know that cats do not literally have 9 lives, that's a euphemism for their ability to survive in adverse conditions. Yes, my cat had a run in with the dogs next door. That was unfortunate. He didn't get beat up - the dogs did. We were extremely cautious afterward because we knew it was a traumatic event. He's collared, tagged, vaccinated, and neutered. he goes for check-ups at least once a year. He prefers doing his business outside as opposed to the litter box - he tolerates the Feline Pine only barely, but I won't use the other litter because the dust can be harmful. I check my cat EVERY SINGLE TIME he comes home so that nothing will go unnoticed. When we got the cat - who was from a stray litter - he was infested with fleas, ear mites, and ringworm. If I had truly been as callous as you believe, I would have gotten rid of him then - my family ended up getting ringworm from him. Instead, I got his ears cleaned, combed him for fleas - no chemical sprays - bathed him (he was pissed) and gave him a sulphur dip every 3 days (he was even more pissed) for two weeks. I bought a steamer to kill spores and bleached and steamed my whole house every day for 2 weeks. He has toys, gets the best food, I even built him a carpeted gym with my own hands, complete with toys, a ramp and platforms. That's a lot of freaking work for a disposable pet.

Honestly, he seems happy the way things are. I don't make him go outside. He doesn't always want to go. When he does, I let him go. Growing up, we had several cats who lived the same type of life as indoor/outdoor cats. They all lived to be at least 16, and died of natural causes - no trauma, no accidents. I think there are distinct advantages and disadvantages to both practices of cat-keeping, and it's up to the pet owner to decide which ones are acceptable.

This is how I see it, and you likely won't agree with me, but if I have the heart to send my family out into this world everyday, not knowing what's going to happen to them while they're out, I can certainly do it with a cat.




DesertRat -> RE: Stray kitty (11/4/2005 3:03:59 PM)

Your points are well-taken and really well expressed. I apologize for being such a prig. I live in a beautiful, idyllic place, but it's not safe to let cats out here due to coyotes, owls, hawks, juvenile delinquents, and other malicious humans. It seems you have really improved the lot of your kitty. Also, your environment might not be as risky as mine. I will still be a "totally indoor" kinda guy, kitty-wise, but will try REALLY hard to be more openminded. Failing that, I'll make an effort to butt out when appropriate.

Bob




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