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Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 7:02:45 AM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		After reading several threads in this forum, I realized that some people need to know the difference between:
 
Masochism & Algolagnia
 
Masochism =  the desire for pain.

Algolagnia =  the sexual pleasure and stimulation from physical pain.

Algolagniacs & Masochists are similar in that they both receive pain; but that's about it.

An algolagniac may not have the same desire for pain like a masochist would, and a masochist may or may not enjoy it!

Which makes me ask the question: If you enjoy it is it really pain?

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 7:19:07 AM   
MaamJay


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Status: offline 		This comes down to the difference between the body's perception of the stimulation ... and how the mind chooses to interpret that. When i am spanked or flogged, the body's neural system perceives it as touch and pain ... the main receptors that are firing are the touch, pressure and pain receptors ... and they are sending messages about those to the brain. i FEEL that pain as pain, hence the "owww" noises! The brain responds by authorising and coordinating various neural and hormonal responses to those stimuli. It is those responses that may be interpreted in a pleasurable way eg by floating into subspace. That's when "ow" turns to "mmmmmm". So in a sense, i am not enjoying "the pain" ... i am enjoying what my body produces as a response to the pain. So it would appear i am an algolagniac (though i don't always get sexually stimulated by pain) more than a masochist. i do know i could never get into self-infliction of pain, i do not desire pain in its own right.

Also there are lots of forms of pain that do NOT provoke the brain into producing the same neural and hormonal cascades ... and which i perceive as bad pain. Stubbing my toe does not get me wet! Just makes me hopping mad. And even some pain that in some contexts could be erotic could also just be nasty pain at times. For eg, my nipples are very sensitive and i cannot tolerate much twisting or pulling without it becoming nasty pain, whereas other girls would be going wild with the pleasure. And even with me, my sensitivity varies from day to day. So there are no absolutes in the pain biz, all the more important for Dominants to learn to read the body language of their sub.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 7:27:49 AM   
gypsygrl


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quote:

If you enjoy it is it really pain?


Yeah, its pain.  And, I don't really enjoy it--it kind of pisses me off--but it has the same effect that other's might get from more classically pleasurable stimuli.  And classically pleasurable stimuli leaves me flat.

I've recently discovered with the help of a friend that I can orgasm from a painful grip on the outer thigh.  The grip has to be hard enough to leave a bruise and it takes a little while but it happens.  Who'd a thunk?



< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 6/19/2008 7:29:24 AM >

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 7:28:13 AM   
crouchingtigress


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quote:

Which makes me ask the question: If you enjoy it is it really pain?


yes, my understanding of pain is it is the bodys alert system, the rush of enorphins are just icing on the cake.

by the way i identify with both Masochism and Algolagnia...the "stub you toe" anaology that is so often sited, while stubbing my toe does not make me come, i have cultivated my erotic relationship with pain to the point wher i can choose to become very aroused by it, or by period cramps, or by falling off a motorcycle....mind you i have been at this thing for a while, when i was 11 i wrote a poem called "pain is my lover"

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 7:32:52 AM   
gypsygrl


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quote:

the "stub you toe" anaology that is so often sited, while stubbing my toe does not make me come, i have cultivated my erotic relationship with pain to the point wher i can choose to become very aroused by it


Yeah, I can get aroused by something like stubbing my toe.  Any perceived 'tension' be it physical, intellectual, psychological or emotional can do it.  Something happens at the intersection of 'love and hate' that really gets me going.  This, I might add, makes me a really poor relationship partner.


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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 7:39:03 AM   
here4sex


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quote:

After reading several threads in this forum, I realized that some people need to know the difference between:

I thought you were going to say, between their ass and a hole in the ground.

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 8:55:14 AM   
MrRandallspe


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Status: offline 		Umm,,very interesting.
I would say that the greater amount of people are more used to the term Masochism thus use it to cover both areas of pain and pleasure from pain.  I  did have a female slave a few years ago that would fit will under Algolagnia,,she would enjoy a whipping all over her body so much that she would cum and even orgasm with much more pleasure that in any other method.

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 10:38:50 AM   
Shawn1066


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Status: offline 		If I enjoy it, is it really pain?  Yes, absolutely.  It still hurts and it's still unpleasant in a purely physical sense.  However, it's also rather erotic on a mental level and somewhat on a physical level as well.  I don't enjoy pain all the time, and I definitely don't enjoy it out of a D/s context.

DV's Fox

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 11:56:52 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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From: Georgia
Status: offline 		It's all semantics. Algolagnia is not a medically recognized condition in mainstream medical science. We have had threads here where the reasons the submissives liked pain varied greatly. The only common denominator was that they wanted it for some reason whether physical or psychological. If you begin to differentiate the types, you could continue to split matters until it came down to individuals...which is probably not a bad idea.

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 12:47:51 PM   
IvyMorgan


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From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		I'd identify as a masochist, in that, though pain is sometimes arousing, it is still the pain which I enjoy and which I crave.  That said, if someone else tries to make me orgasm, they need to include pain for it to work...

Heck, I'm probably both.  My label thingy is growing again.  Can I just bin it, please?

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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 12:58:39 PM   
Aiden


Posts: 39
Joined: 5/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
After reading several threads in this forum, I realized that some people need to know the difference between:
 
Masochism & Algolagnia
Masochism =  the desire for pain.
Algolagnia =  the sexual pleasure and stimulation from physical pain.

Algolagniacs & Masochists are similar in that they both receive pain; but that's about it.
An algolagniac may not have the same desire for pain like a masochist would, and a masochist may or may not enjoy it!

Which makes me ask the question: If you enjoy it is it really pain?

I see masochism v algolagnia as an attempt to disassemble a complex nexus into component parts, maybe over-simplifying both.  Everyone who 'does' bdsm talks about shifting perceptions of pain and pleasure, how the experience of pain can(potentially) invoke primal feelings, how its configured uniquely to individual psyches touching themes of  humiliation, lust, sacrifice, self destruction, exaltation, servitude, escape from the mundane and only the undergods know what else. Right now I hate the idea of pain; that stuff hurts. In other situations when the time comes I might be begging for it, wimpering or bucking and moaning. 

The sum is greater than the parts if y'know what I mean.

~aiden


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RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 1:26:55 PM   
RumpusParable


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From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		mas·och·ism n.  

The deriving of sexual gratification, or the tendency to derive sexual gratification, from being physically or emotionally abused.
The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from being humiliated or mistreated, either by another or by oneself.
A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.


    al·go·lag·ni·a  n.  

    Sexual gratification derived from inflicting or experiencing pain.


    < Message edited by RumpusParable -- 6/19/2008 1:27:20 PM >

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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 1:33:18 PM   
    came4U


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    Status: offline     		Which makes me ask the question: If you enjoy it is it really pain?

    Not to me it isn't.  I prefer to consider it enjoying the after-ride of the shock effect of it.

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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 2:00:48 PM   
    RumpusParable


    Posts: 1923
    Joined: 7/7/2005
    From: NYC now!
    Status: offline     		Pain is "damage data", the experience of nociceptive or neuropathic damage.

    Pleasure, enjoyment, etc. are mental and emotional responses to stimuli in general.

    One is a physical response, the other is an emotional response that can be caused by physical input.

    Due to neurologic structure or induced states, nociceptive and neuropathic damage can sometimes by some people be anesthetized or be incorrectly trasmitted as other nerve data.  But this recurring discussion isn't about that, it's the old thing about "if you derive pleasure from pain stimulus, is it still pain?".  Yes, it is.   Enjoyment of a type of stimulus doesn't alter what the nervous system, as well as the other physiological responses to that, is doing.

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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 2:18:47 PM   
    gypsygrl


    Posts: 1471
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    quote:

    That said, if someone else tries to make me orgasm, they need to include pain for it to work...


    Thats about it for me.  If there isn't some kind of pain, its not going to happen.  Though, it doesn't have to be physical pain.

    I don't know when I made this shift.  I'm trying to think if I've ever had satisfying sex without pain, and in all honesty, I don't think I have.  But, its taken me a while to really understand how complete and thoroughgoing my masochism is.

    I don't mean to be hijacking.  I'm just in a place where I have to explain this stuff to a new partner, so my little brain wheels are turning.  It makes me feel so weird explaining that when I say I don't do regular sex, I really mean I don't do regular sex.  I'll allow myself to be used for regular sex if that's what someone's into, and I'm totally fine with that, but the only pleasure I'm going to get from it is about the same pleasure I get from any other service.


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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 2:24:33 PM   
    xxblushesxx


    Posts: 9318
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    Status: offline     		Interesting discussion.
    I have no answers though.
    I just know it's fun and hot, and erm...lots of good stuff!

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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 4:50:34 PM   
    Aiden


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

    mas·och·ism n.   *definitions cut for brevity and relevence


    I  was aware of the meaning of the terms and the question posted thanks.  The idea was to point to possible flaws in the implication that masochism, algolagnia and pain can be defined this way.  

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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 4:57:55 PM   
    ThundersCry


    Posts: 892
    Status: offline     		I was beat pleanty of times, many different ways... where  I did not *enjoy*...*it*
     
    I liked it though ...afterwards...=L=
     
     
     

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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 5:02:27 PM   
    MrRandallspe


    Posts: 110
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    Status: offline     		What ever you want to name it,I still enjoy spanking,whipping and using a crop or a cane on a bare female backside and body.

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    RE: Masochism vs Algolagnia - 6/19/2008 5:52:01 PM   
    TNstepsout


    Posts: 1558
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    Status: offline     		Algolagnia does not sound sexy AT ALL! What a terrible word. 

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