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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 8:04:52 AM

housesub4you

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Right popeye, because Obama is the first person in politics to change positions on a previous statement.

Hmmm...I wonder if McCain has ever changed his position on past statements???

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 8:13:25 AM

slvemike4u

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Now,now houseboy no fair trying to add a touch of balance to the conversation

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 8:30:33 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Right popeye, because Obama is the first person in politics to change positions on a previous statement.

Hmmm...I wonder if McCain has ever changed his position on past statements???

Undoubtedly he has. However, Obama is the candidate running on a platform of "change". Apparently, it's just shorthand for "changed my mind".

Taken from his "Blueprint for Change":

quote:

Increase Transparency
Obama will increase transparency so that ordinary Americans can understand their government and trust that their money is well spent.

(note: link is to a PDF file)

Stepping out of the public funding mechanism in the general election is being more "transparent"?

Obama's own campaign staffers admit they never contacted the McCain campaign over proposals involving both of them accepting public funds. Obama's own commitment to "aggressively pursue" public financing was apparently just empty political talk:

quote:

Obama said he would pursue public financing "aggressively." He committed to it in a written questionnaire. He even said, repeatedly, that he would meet with Sen. John McCain to discuss a deal.

Instead, his campaign never even asked the Republican's aides for a meeting on the subject. And Obama himself, both campaigns said, never asked for a face-to-face meeting with McCain.

Obama's opportunism and cynicism are hardly new, novel, or refreshing, nor do they amount to anything resembling "change".

Obama: Not the new deal, just the raw deal.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 8:39:44 AM

slvemike4u

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CL are You saying You would have no problem with any of this ,save for the platform promise of "change".Being that McCain made no such "promise" he is free to "change" his mind (and apparently his beliefs) on a number of issues,such as the enviorment,torture,evangelicals etc.etc.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 8:46:20 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Obama: Not the new deal, just the raw deal.

That was so bad rofl!

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 9:00:07 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

CL are You saying You would have no problem with any of this ,save for the platform promise of "change".Being that McCain made no such "promise" he is free to "change" his mind (and apparently his beliefs) on a number of issues,such as the enviorment,torture,evangelicals etc.etc.

Hardly.

I am saying that, on specific issues, I expect the candidates to "change" their mind--reality has a way of upsetting the issues apple cart after inauguration. (case in point: 9/11).

I am saying that, in the manner of their campaigning, in the style of their leadership, I do expect a certain consistency and adherence to principle. That is the only surety we have on which to trust the changes whomever wins the Oval Office WILL make to their campaign pledges.

I am saying that McCain has a substantial history of working to change election campaign financing laws.

I am saying that if anyone has the credibility to discuss how the system is "broken," it is John McCain, not Barack Obama.

I am saying that Obama's decision to evade public scrutiny and refuse public funds is a money-driven decision, which in its crass logic leaves him pandering to the very elements of the "broken" financing system he criticizes so sharply.

I am saying that Obama talks a great game about "change" but so far has only offered up business as usual.

I am saying that Obama set a high moral tone and then slips under the bar at every opportunity.

I am saying that, so far, there is more hypocrisy surrounding Obama than there is McCain.

I am saying that if Obama's only objective is to get elected, I wish he would say that and be upfront about his lust for power. I would respect that. This pretense of being a latter-day FDR and JFK and MLK all rolled into one is laughable.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 9:07:12 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Undoubtedly he has. However, Obama is the candidate running on a platform of "change". Apparently, it's just shorthand for "changed my mind".

This isn't fair and worse it is inaccurate.

Senator Obama has already changed how many States there are in the United States - 57. Changed the reference to lifelong mentor, spiritual adviser to one of 'funny' uncle. Changed his source of campaign funds from under the scrutiny of the public eye to a more clandestine approach, last used by.... (anybody? anybody?) Yes - the answer is - Richard Milhous Nixon.

Most recently he, through those he made responsible for his campaign, tried to change the way Muslim woman appear on camera.

He's all about change, as long as you use his changed and changing dictionary. Currently in 'Obama-speak'; spin = change.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 9:07:13 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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~fr~

Does no one else here see a problem with ANY candidate being prepared to spend Hundreds Of Millions Of Dollars to win an election for ANY public office?

Please note : Any candidate - not any "democratic" candidate or "republican" candidate - Any At All.
Please note : Any public office - not any "local" office or "state" office or "federal" office - Any At All.

Both parties are guilty of Fraud at various levels throughout the years. Some years the faces have simply been better capable of hiding the majority of their misdeeds or redirecting attention away from the same.
Both parties are corrupt and see to it that NO ONE gets in office who hasn't been bought and paid for. The names and faces may change, the line of shit they spew when they open their mouths might Sound different, but they are ALL CULPABLE. Wake Up people - calling it 2 different parties is a farce maintained as a pacification device - the exact same faces pay the bills for Both sides and expect the same Perks from Both Sides.

As for Sen. Obama personally - if he's as concerned as he Says he is about certain issues, let him take that $250 Million dollars he's raised and start pumping it into Charity Efforts like actually feeding, housing, clothing, and educating the poor he says he represents. Let Him Put HIS Money Where His Mouth Is. Same goes for McCain - HE needs to put HIS money where his mouth is as well!

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 9:14:42 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Does no one else here see a problem with ANY candidate being prepared to spend Hundreds Of Millions Of Dollars to win an election for ANY public office?

A problem? No, not necessarily. It means that said candidate will do what it takes to win--in and of itself a rather respectable quality in a leader.

My concern arises when I can't see any other defining principle, any other virtue, to illuminate said candidate's style of leadership. He wants to win--great. That's a necessary quality, no doubt. Now, what's he going to do once he wins? Looking over Obama's website, you really can't tell what he's going to do--or that he even knows what to do. THAT worries me.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 9:23:41 AM

slvemike4u

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CL the man is running for President,job one is to get elected...please furnish me with example's in recent national politic's of candidates who have in Your mind exhibited this elusive consistance and adherance to principals You are looking for(oh yeah restrict those example's to only those that won the office they were seeking),As for Obama slipping under the old morality bar please tell me where exactly have the Republicans left thiers and is there any chance of them finding one in the near future.As far as this decision being about money ,to borrow a phrase recently used on these threads,damm skippy it is ...like it or not elections in this country are about money and when one considers how much money Obama will need to refute all the bullshit issues that will attend his candidacy I would say he is being a realist on this one.Perhaps it would be taking a higher moral ground to keep his pledge,but seeing as he is trying to win an election and not a Miss Congieniality contest this is par for the course

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 9:46:22 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

As for Obama slipping under the old morality bar please tell me where exactly have the Republicans left thiers and is there any chance of them finding one in the near future.As far as this decision being about money ,to borrow a phrase recently used on these threads,damm skippy it is ...like it or not elections in this country are about money and when one considers how much money Obama will need to refute all the bullshit issues that will attend his candidacy I would say he is being a realist on this one

Ah then so you agree that at the most basic level, getting elected, there is no 'change' represented by the Obama candidacy. I think that's basically all CL was stating in the first place.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 10:30:30 AM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

As for Obama slipping under the old morality bar please tell me where exactly have the Republicans left thiers and is there any chance of them finding one in the near future.As far as this decision being about money ,to borrow a phrase recently used on these threads,damm skippy it is ...like it or not elections in this country are about money and when one considers how much money Obama will need to refute all the bullshit issues that will attend his candidacy I would say he is being a realist on this one

Ah then so you agree that at the most basic level, getting elected, there is no 'change' represented by the Obama candidacy. I think that's basically all CL was stating in the first place.

Ah then nothing Merc what I said taken in it's entirety is job one is to get elected,for Obama that means he must sidestep all the bullshit "ISSUES" it seems he is being confronted with.What would You have him do prove himself idealistic and surrender any chance at winning....sort of answered my own question didn't I..

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 10:34:48 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

please furnish me with example's in recent national politic's of candidates who have in Your mind exhibited this elusive consistance and adherance to principals

Ronald Reagan 1980/1984
George H.W. Bush (Bush I) 1988

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 10:46:09 AM

slvemike4u

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Hey CL remember the tag line "read my lips no new taxes"well apparently the voters did George Bush 1 was one and done.As for Ronald Reagan while I greatly admired his foriegn policy work,one would have appreciated a stronger response to Aids,and less Nancy...as for adherance to principles,while I will admit this wasn't during an election but a principled man might have shown a little more backbone in the fifties...not old Ron he named names...

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 10:56:14 AM

cjan

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CL, re your search for an honest candidate in the tradition of Diogenes, perhaps you could shed some light on your opinion of McCain's honesty regarding his role in the Keating 5 scandal ? Is McCain "born again" and absolved of his sins ? Is this what you endorse as "change " ? Is this what you call integrity in a candidate ?

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 10:57:59 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

I said taken in it's entirety is job one is to get elected,for Obama that means he must sidestep all the bullshit "ISSUES" it seems he is being confronted with.What would You have him do prove himself idealistic and surrender any chance at winning....sort of answered my own question didn't I..

Yes you did. You stipulate that what he says should not be anticipated for what he is going to do. And you expect him to "sidestep" any position on an "ISSUES" (sic) that gets in the way of his agenda even in regards to an issue that brought him to his current status and is how he represents himself to be to the electorate.

Yes - I'd say that speaks to Senator Obama exactly. So is the "change" banner he speaks under a representation of how that policy will "change" once elected? How can you be so sure it will change in the manner you hope? What confirmation of standing to a past principle do you base this faith?

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 11:16:01 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Right popeye, because Obama is the first person in politics to change positions on a previous statement.

Hmmm...I wonder if McCain has ever changed his position on past statements???

Housesub, the thing is he pledged not to do it!

His new campaign slogan........
"SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!"

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 11:21:15 AM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I said taken in it's entirety is job one is to get elected,for Obama that means he must sidestep all the bullshit "ISSUES" it seems he is being confronted with.What would You have him do prove himself idealistic and surrender any chance at winning....sort of answered my own question didn't I..
Yes you did. You stipulate that what he says should not be anticipated for what he is going to do. And you expect him to "sidestep" any position on an "ISSUES" (sic) that gets in the way of his agenda even in regards to an issue that brought him to his current status and is how he represents himself to be to the electorate.

Yes - I'd say that speaks to Senator Obama exactly. So is the "change" banner he speaks under a representation of how that policy will "change" once elected? How can you be so sure it will change in the manner you hope? What confirmation of standing to a past principle do you base this faith?

I am sorry Merc if I have given the wrong impression(and any spelling errorsI might have made)I am not strictly speaking an Obama guy ,hell I am not even ,strictly speaking a Democrat.What I am is a centrist who feels the Country under the current administration has been pulled way too far to the right,and is in need of a democrat in the White House to swing a bit to the left,thereby finding the middle once again.Now as I said this is what I believe and in no way do i represent it to be the truth whole truth and the one twue way.You see I don't believe either party has a monopoly on either morality nor ideals...hell to be honest with You if the Democrats had nominated Mickey Mouse while wearing Minnie's dress I would still vote Democrat this time around..... just my opinion

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 11:52:54 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

~fr~

Does no one else here see a problem with ANY candidate being prepared to spend Hundreds Of Millions Of Dollars to win an election for ANY public office?

Please note : Any candidate - not any "democratic" candidate or "republican" candidate - Any At All.
Please note : Any public office - not any "local" office or "state" office or "federal" office - Any At All.

Both parties are guilty of Fraud at various levels throughout the years. Some years the faces have simply been better capable of hiding the majority of their misdeeds or redirecting attention away from the same.
Both parties are corrupt and see to it that NO ONE gets in office who hasn't been bought and paid for. The names and faces may change, the line of shit they spew when they open their mouths might Sound different, but they are ALL CULPABLE. Wake Up people - calling it 2 different parties is a farce maintained as a pacification device - the exact same faces pay the bills for Both sides and expect the same Perks from Both Sides.

As for Sen. Obama personally - if he's as concerned as he Says he is about certain issues, let him take that $250 Million dollars he's raised and start pumping it into Charity Efforts like actually feeding, housing, clothing, and educating the poor he says he represents. Let Him Put HIS Money Where His Mouth Is. Same goes for McCain - HE needs to put HIS money where his mouth is as well!

GP, here! Here!
I think all candidates for president should be given $1M out of Public Funds and give it their best shot!
NO PRIVATE MONEY!
Now, Obama will have hundreds of corporations lining up to give him money with "favors" expected!
Man, he changed his tune in just one day!

"SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!"

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 11:55:06 AM

DomKen

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What I find funny about all this is all the whining because Obama refuses to campaign with one hand tied. Where are the conservative enforce all laws guys? Where's the outrage that McCain is absolutely positively in violation of federal campaign finance laws that he supported and scored poltical points over?

Hey Popeye, what happened to enforce all the laws?

BTW if CL's standard for honesty is Ronald, yes my campaign stole your campaign's matrial, Reagan what more can be said. Except of course to remind everyone that there never was any "welfare queen driving a welfare cadillac." Of course Obama won't live down to that standard.

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