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RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 10:23:55 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What the flaming fuck are these people thinking! Sometimes I wonder what is going through Pelosi and Reid's heads. I so hope some Dem or another filibusters this abomination.


DK,
There comes a time when people need to step away from those running their religions. I suggest you are getting to the point of Martin Luther.

Come join me, my fellow protestant. It's time you realized that just red hats or blue hats cover the same heads; and 'infallibility' doesn't really exist in humanity, no matter the color of your hat.

At least, in our case, we know the answer to this question posed by Luther concerning his religious leaders; "Why does the pope, whose wealth today is greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build the basilica of St. Peter with the money of poor believers rather than with his own money." The answer is pointed to the pope's, or in our case our political representatives', boss; their 'god' PACs and the campaign money they provide.

In this specific instance, look no further than the PAC contribution list coming into the coffers of the Democratic Party in general and Ms Pelosi and Mr. Reid specifically. They would put their financial benefactors in a position of answering law suits for the next 20 years?! Seriously?~!

Save the, "Republicans do worse/same" reply; I already know that factually. Its been my point throughout this circular primary season. It serves my contention - Change? -What change?

Our problem isn't easy to resolve. Unlike Luther, we have no Castle Church to post our '95 Theses'. Legal segregation and the establishment of a ruling class has been an ongoing project. The 'bi-partisan' (don't you love that term!?) McCain-Feingold-Shays-Meehan campaign finance reform act put the last nail in the coffin of anyone thinking that the 'common man' could aspire to national public office.
quote:

I so hope some Dem or another filibusters this abomination.
However, if you only see "hope" in "some Dem"; that speaks more to problem than the solution.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 10:27:14 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, all the Obama-heads should pay attention. If he's got LEADERSHIP qualities, he'd be on the phone to Reid and Pelosi shutting this down. Of course, that's predicated on the hypothesis that *anyone* in DC actually gives a shit about The People.

Which they don't. Obama wouldn't be where he was if he didn't play ball in the first place.

Conclusion: We're fucked -- Spied on more that the STATSI or KGB ever dreamed of.




"Leadership?"
I wasn't aware that acheiving good marks in law school made one,..... a "leader."
That's all you have to do?
If that's the case......

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 10:35:08 AM   
kittinSol


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Popeye, you really have a chip on your shoulder about lawyers . It's not too late to go to law school, you know  .

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 11:10:19 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Popeye, you really have a chip on your shoulder about lawyers . It's not too late to go to law school, you know  .


Kittin, I have a B.S. in Business Administration and I'm happily retired, why would I want to do that at 57 years of age?
It's 1:40 in the afternoon and I'm on my second cup of coffee.
Do you really think it's a good idea to have so many of any one occupation in our government?
If I wanted to come out of retirement I'd start a consulting business specializing in cutting costs at brokerage houses.
Seems many of them have *highly overqualified* MBA's "selling stock" these days instead of being in "the back of the house" in M&A or Investment Banking.
How the hell...!
I imagine they probably give them titles like " Investment Councillor" (sic) or something like that just like in govt where they call secretarial workers with college degrees, "Director of..." or dozens more titles to justify their $80k per year.
Now that business has trimmed to the bone on the- lower levels- this is where the "fat" is, in middle and upper management!
That's where you can *really* save some big bucks in salary and benefits!
If I were to come out of retirement and get an MBA I certainly wouldn't be... "selling stock."
You don't even need a degree to do that, you simply need to be *lisensed.*
It's a Sales position.
I bet I could make millions saving brokerages money!
A good tagline for my business might be; "We got the working class down to $9-$15 per hour with no benefits,...now we're comming after YOU!"
And have an Uncle Sam like character pointing his finger at you! LOL!
"Efficiency expert? I'll show you *Efficiency!"* lol
Ok, I'm just starting to wake up, more COFFEE!!!


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:03:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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Merc, the problem is there is nowhere to go. I know I'm never voting Libertarian, I was active in the party when I was younger and they're much much worse than the worst republican. The Greens aren't going anywhere if they won't get organized and work on ballot access, went to a Green party event touting a guys state house seat campaign and nobody there had any clue about how to get him on the ballot. Reform and Constitution are right wing scum I will never support them.

Fundamentally the Democratic party is the best available option even if some of the leaders do completely assinine things on occasion.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:03:57 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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If you can't beat them, join them: you'd make a killing.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:06:49 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

More to the point, some of us do other things on the telephone than merely ordering pizzas.


I haven't posted much here, so what's up with this "waiting approval"  that I keep seeing on some threads here?


That's when a poster's been naughty and fell under the wrath of the moderator. It's called 'being moderated'. Their posts have to be approved before they appear on the forum.


Thought it was something like, just wasn't sure, because though I tended to disagree with some of those subjected to that I never saw their statements as offensive.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:10:00 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Merc, the problem is there is nowhere to go. I know I'm never voting Libertarian, I was active in the party when I was younger and they're much much worse than the worst republican. The Greens aren't going anywhere if they won't get organized and work on ballot access, went to a Green party event touting a guys state house seat campaign and nobody there had any clue about how to get him on the ballot. Reform and Constitution are right wing scum I will never support them.

Fundamentally the Democratic party is the best available option even if some of the leaders do completely assinine things on occasion.


On too many occasions, and that's speaking as a Democrat.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:23:01 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Merc, the problem is there is nowhere to go. I know I'm never voting Libertarian, I was active in the party when I was younger and they're much much worse than the worst republican. The Greens aren't going anywhere if they won't get organized and work on ballot access, went to a Green party event touting a guys state house seat campaign and nobody there had any clue about how to get him on the ballot. Reform and Constitution are right wing scum I will never support them.

Fundamentally the Democratic party is the best available option even if some of the leaders do completely assinine things on occasion.


On too many occasions, and that's speaking as a Democrat.


Rule, I'm a moderate and a "Lou Dobbs populist " and I'm voting for the Constitution Party.
And getting back to the Constitution in this country is wrong because....?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:26:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Rule, I'm a moderate and a "Lou Dobbs populist " and I'm voting for the Constitution Party.
And getting back to the Constitution in this country is wrong because....?

I've pointed out to you before that the Constution party does not actually support the US Constitution. It is a radical theocratic party of the extreme right. The fact that you support them over your sworn oath makes me sick.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:31:59 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Merc, the problem is there is nowhere to go. I know I'm never voting Libertarian, I was active in the party when I was younger and they're much much worse than the worst republican. The Greens aren't going anywhere if they won't get organized and work on ballot access, went to a Green party event touting a guys state house seat campaign and nobody there had any clue about how to get him on the ballot. Reform and Constitution are right wing scum I will never support them.

Fundamentally the Democratic party is the best available option even if some of the leaders do completely assinine things on occasion.


On too many occasions, and that's speaking as a Democrat.


Rule, I'm a moderate and a "Lou Dobbs populist " and I'm voting for the Constitution Party.
And getting back to the Constitution in this country is wrong because....?


I guess I should have edited out everything else, but I was responding to his last statement only.  Don't know much about the Constitution Party.  Send me a link if you want. 

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:33:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Rule, I'm a moderate and a "Lou Dobbs populist " and I'm voting for the Constitution Party.
And getting back to the Constitution in this country is wrong because....?

I've pointed out to you before that the Constution party does not actually support the US Constitution. It is a radical theocratic party of the extreme right. The fact that you support them over your sworn oath makes me sick.


DomKen, and who voted for the Patriot Act?
Republicans and Democrats.
No, they don't support the Constitution, that's why they call themselves the "Constitution Party."
There may be a few holy rollers in the CP as there may be some Democrats and Republicans in the Westboro Baptist Church.
But, it does say "In God We Trust" on our money, doesn't it?
I don't know why so many on the left have such a problem with the concept of "God," I'm not religious and I don't have any problems with it.
I just don't want "religion" in my government.
Funny, almost all the Coo Clux Klan were,.........Democrats.
Ever hear of senator Robert "Sheets" Bird?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/20/2008 12:48:11 PM >


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:48:53 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

It is truly scary that you don't worry about it.  Is that not one of the fundamental principles that this country was created on?


Why would I worry about whether or not the FBI knows what I want on my pizza??? If they spent ALL day yesterday monitoring my cell phone - they would have learned that I wanted the woman who cleans for me to pick up groceries at sams club which have already been bought and paid for through "click n pull", that Im not interested in replacement windows, that my friend Jen has yet more boyfriend drama, that Im not interested in making money with Quixtar, that my moms cable TV went out, that the bank deposit I made had cleared, that my client Kyle is a complete fucktard, that Dale is working Saturday but Jerry is working Sunday, that BrittneyLee is dumb as a sack of rocks, that Im not interested in coming to a free Mormon bible study, that my dental cleaning is rescheduled, that Jen's boyfriend drama is OK now and they are back in love, that Im not interested in listing my house, that Im not interested in a job, that I do indeed want daily delivery of the Houston Chronicle, that my moms cable is back on, that kyle is a bigger fucktard than I thought, and that I want a pizza with anchovies and canadian bacon. If they want to hire an agent to keep track of all that - I pity the poor fucker.

Im not a criminal or a terrorist, there is nothing on my cell phone I dont want the govt to know about.  On the rare occasions when I do break a minor law, like if I order a hooker from Craigslist, I use a prepaid cell that was bought and recharged with cash, that has no ties to me, and that hasnt ever even been turned on within two miles of a cell site near my house.

The framers of the constitution really didnt even imagine telecom. Its not "protected" I say natl security trumps privacy. Id rather they know the above, than that they dont know what Abdul and Mohammed are up to...


Well, DA they know all about your desire for anchovies and bacon but why those two and why Canadian ? Isn't American bacon good enough for you ? Most people don't get anchovies...so where did you get that...out of a spy novel ? Canadian bacon could be a cover. As for your mother's cable...just why did it go out only to come right back on later in the day ? Sounds pretty suspicious to us so we will need to know her cable provider and if she is paid up. So we are now tapping your mother and oh you protest about Kyle a bit much so we will tap him too needing to know if he really IS such a fucktard and will go ahead and throw in Jen. She sounds weak and could be useful down the road...so we'll have to hear everything she has to say about this supposed drama.

Oh and being a licensed pilot, we will need to know your flight plans (to be filed) for every week and (since we are incompetent govt. little Hitlers and all around fools) every month...and in advance with all departures and arrivals, destinations and the purpose of the flight, who else is on board and what all the freight or luggage will contain. Can't take any risks...ANY risks at all.

Oh and about that bank deposit...just where did you get it and who is the payee, due to the above suspicions we will need to have this info plus what the payment was for and the agreement under which it was tranferred and what bank it was drawn on.

You see DA, you don't get to decide whether or not you are a criminal or a terrorist...we will decide that now and to help us make that decision, if necessary we will take a long trip down south.

When they come DA ask if you can take your laptop so when you get to Gitmo we can all stay in touch hey ?

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 12:56:14 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

When they come DA ask if you can take your laptop so when you get to Gitmo we can all stay in touch hey ?



Hahahaha  .

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RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 1:06:14 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
Where to begin...

Chuck Baldwin is the Constitution Party's nominee for President. An avowed dominionist* and former member of moral majority.

Michael Peroutka was the 2004 party nominee and once again an avowed dominionist.

Herb Titus was the 1996 party Vice Presidential nominee, another avowed dominionist, also cowrote a nasty littel bill called the "Constitution Restoration act" that would have prevented federal court review of any action taken by any elected official or government employee that favored or advanced christianity.

The party's own website has many clear and not so clear statements about their dominionist leanings.

*Dominionism, aka Christian Reconstructionism, is a movement in the religious righ to over throw the US Constitution and implement an old testament theocracy.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/dominionism.htm
Keep in mind that the leaders of the movement are serous about the institution of OT law. That includes all those charming laws and prescribed punishments in Leviticus.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 1:10:05 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Where to begin...

Chuck Baldwin is the Constitution Party's nominee for President. An avowed dominionist* and former member of moral majority.

Michael Peroutka was the 2004 party nominee and once again an avowed dominionist.

Herb Titus was the 1996 party Vice Presidential nominee, another avowed dominionist, also cowrote a nasty littel bill called the "Constitution Restoration act" that would have prevented federal court review of any action taken by any elected official or government employee that favored or advanced christianity.

The party's own website has many clear and not so clear statements about their dominionist leanings.

*Dominionism, aka Christian Reconstructionism, is a movement in the religious righ to over throw the US Constitution and implement an old testament theocracy.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/dominionism.htm
Keep in mind that the leaders of the movement are serous about the institution of OT law. That includes all those charming laws and prescribed punishments in Leviticus.



Ok, so that's three of them we get rid of.
Anymore?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 1:12:02 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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They're the guys leading the party popeye. Heck the second place candidate this year was Alan, I'm so wacko other xtian wackos stay away from me, Keyes.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 1:34:23 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

They're the guys leading the party popeye. Heck the second place candidate this year was Alan, I'm so wacko other xtian wackos stay away from me, Keyes.


DomKen, all parties have wackos in them.
We just don't march in lock-step with them in the C.P. like the Democrats do.
Watch the DNC in Denver this August!
"YES WE CAN!"
"SHOW ME THE MONEY!"
If Obama gets in I hope you don't think you'll be getting a National Healthcare Plan!
Do you think Johnson and Johnson, Squibb, Pfizer and all the other big pharmaceutical companies who's money Obama will now be accepting are going to allow that to happen?
They'll have free refreshment booths at the DNC!
They'll be serving up filet mignons, lobster flown in from Maine, and all kinds of other goodies!
Cadillac and Mercedes Benz will be; "The Official Cars of the Democratic National Convention."
You know, when you SELL OUT you don't ride around in Chevrolets and Toyotas like the great unwashed.
I doubt they'll even have those "free speech zones" like they did in Boston a few years back, chain link fences with razor wire on top that all the sign carrying protesters were herded into.
Ever hear of, "The company store?"
"If elected president I'll make sure everyone in America is driving a Cadillac!"
("We'll work something out with my *very good friends* at G.M.)
"YES WE CAN!!!"
And you don't think Obama's going to be hanging out with the likes of neighborhood organizers anymore I hope.
You can expect him to be hanging out with his "new friends", golf pros, CEOs, CFOs, COOs, Director of the Boards etc.
And you know why?
Because, ....THEY SHOWED HIM THE MONEY!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/20/2008 1:44:07 PM >


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 1:48:35 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Where to begin...

*Dominionism, aka Christian Reconstructionism, is a movement in the religious righ to over throw the US Constitution and implement an old testament theocracy.



kittinSol I wish this was funny but I am not laughing.

Yes, the theocrats could be a danger but I fear much more those who purpetrated 9/11 and what was in fact the PNAC's 'Pearl Harbor' that they needed to get the Patriot Act and Homeland Security dept. in place.

The PNAC...Project for a New American Century has obtained everything they wanted as a result of 9/11. We are now in what will be a never-ending 'war on terror.' They...the govt. can spy on anybody anywhere now and they have their $130-$140/bbl. oil. They have their hot wars in Afganistan and Iraq and their boy (McCain) is just the one to go into Iran, N. Korea or even Syria possibly.

WAR is PROFITS and maybe even $200-$300/bbl oil...and soon. I fear these 'one world-govt.' capitalist fascists more than the theocratic fascists and if anything...the theocrats will become a willing tool for these devils.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Dems Agree to Expand Domestic Spying, Grant Telecom... - 6/20/2008 2:11:48 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

kittinSol I wish this was funny but I am not laughing.



You are right. I laughed with glee, and should have made that clearer.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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