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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:11:33 AM   
chickpea


Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yup. You put it out there and I hate to tell you this but EVERYBODY who read it or responded judged it. Just because someone responds that they are opposed doesn't make it any more a judgment than those who responded in agreement. Like in the old RUSH song...."if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice". So why is it that so many people hurl the "judgmental" label like a weapon....which, by the way, is also just as "judgmental". Do you really think that your particular situation will be favorable or understandable to EVERYONE? Did you not expect that there would be some who were NOT in agreement?

When we post intimate or personal information about ourselves on here we are painting a picture and holding it up for others to see. When you look at a piece of art you either like it, hate it...or it just doesn't really do anything for you one way or another. Sometimes you need only see a glimpse of that picture to decide if it strikes your fancy...or not. Sometimes you need to look at every brush stroke it took to create it. We all are not going to find the same picture appealing and want to hang it on our wall.

Just boggles my mind that some folks on here seem to think that when someone doesn't agree and posts an opposing view that they have then sustained some kind of injury as a result.

I've been judged on here many, many times...both positively and negatively. I've even been judged for being judgmental. I don't feel injured by it....as a matter of fact when I put the words down and hit the "submit" button....I expect that everyone who reads them will form some kind of judgment. To expect any other result would just make no sense.


Everyone has a different perspective.  Like if you ask each individual in a group of people that went through the same thing at the same time about the experience, each person is going to say something different.  So whatever is true, is actually just perspective.  So if someone says some garbage about me, I take it with a grain of salt.  If they want to trash me in an obnoxious way, it shows their character.  If they do it in a constructive way, that's a little harder to swallow hahah :D  I try to take the high road, take a step back from the situation and see what I can learn from it, rather than reacting emotionally or doing a tit-for-tat as I believe in actions make results...eventually, now or years down the line, you sow what you reap, be careful of the Karma God!  I'm not responsible for anyone else's actions, just how I react to it. 
If it's on the internet, that gives me less of a reason to care.  As far as those that will rush to conclusions, I think there's less effort involved in getting to the heart of the matter vs. talking with someone personally one on one (I mean you post it and hours later someone reads it?  less effort to talk, less effort to evaluate), it's more of a oooh that's pretty, or oooh that's ugly...like you said touring a museum.  I'll call them on their quick judgement if I wanted an in-depth analysis, or shrug it off as being a drive by opinion.  As far as saying the truth or humiliating yourself on here, it doesn't matter it's the internet, I don't feel humiliated saying stuff like I have three nipples (I don't but LOL), you can do that more here,  like their judgements of you will affect your career etc. .  Because you don't have to live with these people everyday...and they don't know your family.  plus, I'm not into meeting people off the internet.  Just a nice diversion forum for ideas etc.  

< Message edited by chickpea -- 6/20/2008 10:14:09 AM >

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:13:43 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

I don't understand why a personal insult from a complete stranger on an internet message board would bother anyone.


I think that possibly the closer this on-line experience is to matching what they do in the entirety of their life (they live on-line and don't have a lot of real time stuff going on), they may tend to get caught up and hurt in random drama.  I don't get it.  The only opinions that matter to me are those people whom I know and admire, whether on-line or in real life.  The rest of the people and their ensuing drama are largely provided for my entertainment.


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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:21:44 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Remember-you asked for it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCP2YV6Jge0



<grins> You sooooo delivered on that one.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:28:49 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		People judge O/others, I think, because T/they think T/they are in some way "better" than Y/you because T/they have experienced more or know more, some probably do it out of spite or just to make noise. People are funny things and unpredictable, as long as Y/you and those close to you who you share things with are happy then no-one else matters.

As the saying goes "Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter.

And btw, not wanting to sound judgemental Myself, you have great taste in music for quoting RUSH, I've been a fan since I was 8.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:29:35 AM   
DominantJenny


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Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The #1 problem I see isn't "judging" per se, but leaping to conclusions based on incomplete and slanted information. 

Sometimes you really don't need to know more.  ("Is it safe for a Dom to perform a lumber puncture on the back of a sub?"  Answer: No, no matter how you spell lumber.)  But most of the time, come on.  Someone's putting some deep emotional issue in one or two paragraphs.  You don't know them, you don't know their partner.  The safest route is to ask more questions, and understand you are looking at opinions, not facts.


Yes. *nodnod* Well said.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:33:58 AM   
Skully7000


Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

Saying, "You are a sick fuck who should dwell in the seventh level of hell"...not so much.



for some reason the thought of someone saying that to me sounds very very hot!

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:35:16 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yup. You put it out there and I hate to tell you this but EVERYBODY who read it or responded judged it. Just because someone responds that they are opposed doesn't make it any more a judgment than those who responded in agreement. Like in the old RUSH song...."if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice". So why is it that so many people hurl the "judgmental" label like a weapon....which, by the way, is also just as "judgmental". Do you really think that your particular situation will be favorable or understandable to EVERYONE? Did you not expect that there would be some who were NOT in agreement?

When we post intimate or personal information about ourselves on here we are painting a picture and holding it up for others to see. When you look at a piece of art you either like it, hate it...or it just doesn't really do anything for you one way or another. Sometimes you need only see a glimpse of that picture to decide if it strikes your fancy...or not. Sometimes you need to look at every brush stroke it took to create it. We all are not going to find the same picture appealing and want to hang it on our wall.

Just boggles my mind that some folks on here seem to think that when someone doesn't agree and posts an opposing view that they have then sustained some kind of injury as a result.

I've been judged on here many, many times...both positively and negatively. I've even been judged for being judgmental. I don't feel injured by it....as a matter of fact when I put the words down and hit the "submit" button....I expect that everyone who reads them will form some kind of judgment. To expect any other result would just make no sense.


I pretty much agree with everything you've said.  Personally thats why I don't talk about every single intimate detail of my relationship - I'm fairly restrictive in terms of what I'll talk about because I don't feel like hearing people's opinions on my relationship.

On the other hand, at least every time I read the boards, and good 60% of when I read threads I think to myself,  "boy will it be funny to see you in five years."  So I judge all of the time, just like everyone does - I find that people never call it judgemental when they agree with you, only when they disagree.

C~


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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:37:47 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		I think it's about reader perception overall. I tend to be blunt and not sugarcoat things. I'm not rude or snarky or nasty (though I can be when I feel it's called for) and have still been accused of being that way. We all judge in one way or another, it's how the judgement is both expressed and perceived/received that decides whether there will be a problem with it. I think people get way too hung up on it (judgement, perceived nastiness) really. Some people love drama and will create it if there's not enough to satisfy them.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 10:39:25 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skully7000

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

Saying, "You are a sick fuck who should dwell in the seventh level of hell"...not so much.



for some reason the thought of someone saying that to me sounds very very hot!


*laugh* In the right context, I can totally see it.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 1:26:05 PM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline 		fast reply didn't read the whole thread

i think part of it too is that you're talking about an online environment. things that wouldn't seem judgemental in face to face communication can come across that way in an online discussion because you miss the visual and/or verbal cues about what a person is getting at. i get that a lot- people tell me that i'm too angry or sensitive or whatever when i'm actually pretty happy and calm at the time lol.  for me personally it comes from having 'don't put any emotion into your writing EVER' beat into my head for the past five years. a person may be hilarious in real life, and the post may actually be funny-- when spoken-- but can come across as judgemental or snarky when typed because you don't have any way to judge the emotion behind it.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 2:17:07 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Like in the old RUSH song...."if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".


True enough but if you choose not to make a judgment then you have not made a judgment.

Apologies to Neil Peart.



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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 3:09:48 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

True enough but if you choose not to make a judgment then you have not made a judgment.


I think it is possible to choose not to judge in the way the op is talking about.  It takes some discipline and practice, but it's something that can be learned. Mind you, its not always a good idea--I've gotten into more trouble from my now habitual tendency to bracket judgements and suspend disbelief than anything else.  But, refraining from coming to a conclusion about something can be done and alot of times there's good reasons to refrain from judgement.  For me, those reasons are usually because something doesn't affect me directly, because I don't have enough information, or because there's no pragmatic need to form a judgement ie my opinion isn't going to make a difference in the outcome.  Or, I simply have no thoughts on the matter.

I also think its possible to voice an opinion, perspective or belief without giving offense.  I can come to the conclusion that someone is lazy or stupid or whatever without taking the next step and giving it a negative spin.  So, for example, if someone wants to be lazy and are doing it on their own time, I don't see why I should be bothered by it.  I'm probably guilty of laziness myself here because to get in a huff would require an unnecessary expenditure of energy so if I'm not affected by it, I'm not going to get upset over it. 

Only rarely have I felt personally judged on the message boards.  Its happened so rarely that its always been kind of a surprise, as in, imagine that! and it gives me a chuckle (I can still remember the time I was called a biatch).  I don't speak a whole lot about the details of my private life on the boards, and when I do feel the need to break omerta because I really have to work something out in my head, its usually been received sympathetically.  There's a reason I hang around here so much. :)


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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 3:19:35 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The #1 problem I see isn't "judging" per se, but leaping to conclusions based on incomplete and slanted information. 

Sometimes you really don't need to know more.  ("Is it safe for a Dom to perform a lumber puncture on the back of a sub?"  Answer: No, no matter how you spell lumber.)  But most of the time, come on.  Someone's putting some deep emotional issue in one or two paragraphs.  You don't know them, you don't know their partner.  The safest route is to ask more questions, and understand you are looking at opinions, not facts.


Yes. *nodnod* Well said.


I agree also...

Its pretty hard not to get riled when people look past what the post or thread might be about - and start taking the relationship behind it to pieces based on very little information.

I recently asked what people thought about a particular BDSM activity and ended up very rapidly having to defend my sanity and my Owner's competance. If I had asked people what they thought of my relationship  then fair enough, but I hadn't.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 3:34:34 PM   
missturbation


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There is a difference between judging someone fairly and respectfully and judging someone nastily and unfairly.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 4:18:25 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		"Try not to confuse the truth with majority opinion."
Jean Cocteau.

My thoughts.....

Be careful what you say about others, because it says as much about you.

Judgment is a convenient shortcut to save people trying to look at things from a different perspective.

When you don't understand someone or something, and you don't want to find out, it's always best to accept.

You can always gain information and knowledge from others, but you have to learn wisdom for yourself.

You move towards wisdom by blaming others, and arrive at wisdom by admitting they're right.

The main characteristic of stupidity is to always spot the mistakes of others, but never see your own.

Some people will tell you that you're stupid when they can't understand your wisdom.

You realise that judgment is futile whenever you try to work out who is being more stupid.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 4:27:53 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
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Status: offline 		And then, there is always that stubborn-"knowing someone is totally wrong-everyone sees it.....but the person in question has the conviction that they know otherwise."
 
 Galileo was a bit like that-silly stubborn prideful bugger-who was right, when an entire world of educated know it alls were in error.
 
 Think about that a bit-the next time you feel called to side with "the herd".

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 4:37:40 PM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
People say they post for opinions or advice...and if everyone who was opposed said "not for me but if it works for you"...would they really get an opposing view point which to consider and make their own decisions from?


Yes, assuming the "not for me" folks offer some explanation. 

If someone posts that they're thinking of doing X and is met with a barage of "That's not SSC!", "That's SICK! It's ABUSE!", "No one should EVER do that!", chances are they'll be rather unreceptive.  They may even tell everyone to get bent and stop seeking out advice.  It's a fact that there are people out there doing everything you can imagine and things that you can't, and Just Say NO messages just don't work.  If you (general "you", not you specifically) want to post Thou Shalt Nots that's certainly your prerogative, but if you feel that the information you're trying to relay is important and want the person to whom you're responding to pay attention, you're going to have to frame it in such a way that they're likely to listen.  Telling them they're dangerous idiots isn't likely to make them kindly disposed to your point of view.

On the other paw, the poster is likely to be receptive if you explain in a non-judgmental way why X isn't a good idea and what might be done to mitigate the risks or role-play the situation so that they can get an experience close to X that isn't likely to wind up in an emergency room or courtroom.  It is possible to offer a frank, even blunt opinion without being unkind or judgmental.


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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/20/2008 5:42:40 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Hi owned,
Yes, I do see the difference. To be really honest though I don't see either one as bad. There ARE lots of people on here that are lazy, stupid, weak, mentally ill, etc. Honestly, the only conclusion I can even begin to come to from some of the things people here will post is that they must have a serious humiliation kink. If a person is going to make a complete ass of themselves with their words they shouldn't be surprised that some people will notice and call them an ass.


Hi again, erin,
For what it's worth, we differ here.  Maybe it's because I was raised by someone who thought it perfectly ok to call us stupid and worthless, I cringe more than I should when I see or hear such statements made.  We all bring who we are (baggage and all) to the table, and that's mine and why I react as strongly as I do.  This is not to say I never insult others myself, but I try not to because (a) it makes me uncomfortable to do so; and (b) I try to focus on the positives of life and people, rather than the negatives.  Obviously I can't expect the whole world to be like me (that would be scary), but that's part of what my make up is.

quote:



Well, there is lots of stuff that I see on here that totally disgusts me also...so I'm with you there. But isn't calling a person "judgmental" in a context that is meant to be an insult criticizing also?


In some cases yes, and in some cases no.

quote:


Just this morning on another thread there were people who took a comment that I made and referred to it (without naming me) and went on a bent about how "judgmental" it was. So yes, even though my name wasn't directly mentioned, they were criticizing me. So should I feel insulted by that...injured in some way? I don't....but I DO see the delicious irony in it and am amused by it. Yes the comment I made was insulting....I meant it to be. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand and everything to do with a particular poster, his perceived motivations ( a conclusion that I drew from his commentary on another thread where he suggested that another was to blame for the wrongdoings of her partner because she didn't do what he expected his girl to do). Surprising enough...I don't have any issues at all with the topic that was being discussed.


I saw the comment you made, Erin, and truth be told, I was really unpleasantly surprised by it.  It bothered me that you said such a thing...but I chose to not be critical and insulting about it because I just don't find it necessary to be that way, and I'm rather "forgiving" (for lack of a better word) of people just being who they are, even if some aspects of who they are don't match up with who I am.  But what would be my purpose in insulting and criticizing, other than to make someone feel bad?  Seriously - what is the purpose of telling someone you think they're stupid vs. you don't agree with what they're doing?  It's certainly not to elevate someone. 

Now, I did also refer to your comment because it related closely to my own situation.  I mentioned it in the context of how it affected me personally, but I saw no need to insult you over it. 

quote:

What I said was that my mind is boggled when people feel they have sustained an injury when someone doesn't agree with them....and I will even go so far as to include personal insults. I absolutely do see the difference between disagreements and personal insults....and I have no problem doing either.


We differ in our opinions here.  I find personal insults to be assautling.  Having survived a marriage in which emotional abuse was dished out by way of personal insults, I do have a problem with them, as I don't think they serve any good purpose.

quote:


No, I don't understand why a personal insult from a complete stranger on an internet message board would bother anyone. There was a saying in kindergarten..."Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me". It's a true saying and words can really only hurt someone if they choose to allow them to.


Are we complete strangers?  Or would you say we have even a bit of commeraderie here?  You & I have emailed before.  I can't say I know you, but I wouldn't refer to you as a complete stranger.  I've never met you, but I like you.  So if you were to tell me you thought I was a big loser-piece-of-shit, especially in "public", I would be unpleasantly surprised.

And words do hurt people.  If your Sir suddenly told you he thought you were a worthless piece of shit and didn't respect you anymore, you would probably be upset by that.  Words can be as assualting as a fist.

As for message boards, I don't see them as cold, unfeeling, unimportant entities.  They are a method of human interaction, and of course what people write can affect others.  Now, if someone I didn't know at all or didn't like became insulting of me, I would not be so affected, but if someone I thought highly of and admired insulted me personally, I would indeed be affected by it.  Why?  Because I enjoy relating to others, be it in person, by phone, or by words.

I appreciate your reply to me, Erin.  Now, as an example, if you had replied with "Well owned, too fucking bad because I think you're a loser anyway," I would not have replied and we wouldn't have had this cool discussion.  I believe that being insulting to others contributes negativity to the world, and closes doors.  While I understand, accept and respect that that's perfectly OK with people to do that, it isn't OK with me to do that, so I don't, and I speak up when someone has negatively affected me.  I just don't insult them in turn when they do.

Thanks for the dialogue!!



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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/21/2008 1:10:17 AM   
Deliena


Posts: 623
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Darlington, United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I just want to step up on the "sticks and stones" comment and call "BULLSHIT".  Everyone knows that words do have meaning and effect on their partners.  Hell that's why the Emotional S&M thread has had so many people say, 'do it well and reap the rewards, get it wrong and reap what you sow'.

If "words can never hurt us" you wouldn't see huge campaigns on bullying and emotional abuse wouldn't be just cause for divorce.  As a survivor of both childhood bullying that drove me to a nervous breakdown and a marriage that left me questioning my sanity once more I cannot support the supposition that the effect our words have is inconsequential.

For further evidencary support look at the incidence of flaming on any internet board, if words didn't provoke an emotional response in the reader flaming wouldn't exist.  Just because it's a faceless stranger potentially 1,000s of miles away doesn't make it any easier sometimes (in fact often that makes it worse) and in this case I see the trotting out of platitudes such as the specific comment I've chosen as an example as an attempt to justify hurting others as their fault.  Again, hardly a compassionate thing to do.

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RE: Someone judged me/my relationship/my kinks - 6/21/2008 5:52:50 AM   
MISTRESSKUMA


Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deliena

I just want to step up on the "sticks and stones" comment and call "BULLSHIT".  Everyone knows that words do have meaning and effect on their partners.  Hell that's why the Emotional S&M thread has had so many people say, 'do it well and reap the rewards, get it wrong and reap what you sow'.

If "words can never hurt us" you wouldn't see huge campaigns on bullying and emotional abuse wouldn't be just cause for divorce.  As a survivor of both childhood bullying that drove me to a nervous breakdown and a marriage that left me questioning my sanity once more I cannot support the supposition that the effect our words have is inconsequential.

For further evidencary support look at the incidence of flaming on any internet board, if words didn't provoke an emotional response in the reader flaming wouldn't exist.  Just because it's a faceless stranger potentially 1,000s of miles away doesn't make it any easier sometimes (in fact often that makes it worse) and in this case I see the trotting out of platitudes such as the specific comment I've chosen as an example as an attempt to justify hurting others as their fault.  Again, hardly a compassionate thing to do.


Totally. They know it's true too. No way to justify their nastiness and when a comment is meant to put the other person down, it's so no longer just an opinion.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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