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RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 6/21/2008 9:23:26 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SltlyBrokenAngel


Oh know its nothing like that.  She and I can spend time together alone - he asked me not to allow her to spend the night and that, to me anyway, is a valid request considering that she is not just a friend but an ex. 



You know, that changes the dynamic of the situation totally. I'm not sure if she's a concerned friend or an ex who hasn't moved on and is having trouble dealing with the fact that you have. Especially so considering you've moved from female to male, she might have found you getting another gf a lot easier than you getting involved with a guy.

But you're giving an ex way too much info into your current relationship. You need to establish boundaries.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SltlyBrokenAngel)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 6/21/2008 12:50:42 PM   
SltlyBrokenAngel


Posts: 38
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		Hmm, I can understand why you would think that I am giving her too much info into my life - but then again you're not in this situation.
I did mention in my original post that she is an ex - and yes I've "moved from women to men" but I'm bisexual - so that goes with the territory.
Anyway, she and I were very good friends before we started dating and have remained friends after.  Knowing that we had had a relationship I did not intend to give her the details of my current relationship.  However, there were a couple of circumstances that came up that made it clear to her what was going on (one involved her showing up at a coffee house where I was with a submissives group and the waitress told her that the group was called the "submissive coffee" - not much I could deny there)- and rather than have her think I was in an abusive relationship with some kind of control freak I confirmed that indeed I am involved in a D/s relationship and that it was my choice and that I am very happy.  Beyond that I don't share the details with her - sometimes she asks and I try to answer her questions honestly - I'm just finding it more and more difficult as she becomes more "concerned" about it being a "bad situation."   

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/2/2008 3:26:32 PM   
subeos


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline

(in reply to SltlyBrokenAngel)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/2/2008 9:10:55 PM   
MsArcEnCiel


Posts: 17
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		i had a similiar experience with my best friend when i started dating with a woman. She thought i had lost my mind and gave me these long rants about how i need professional help. But when she saw U/us together and saw that all was ok and that W/we had a working adjusted relationship, she was just fine with it, and even apologized. For me too the dinner together sounds like a nice idea. :)

heidi

(in reply to eepsy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/3/2008 1:45:44 PM   
SaraZeal


Posts: 144
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

For me being a feminist means that I can make the choice whether I want to submit to someone or not - to her my submission is anti-feminist and dangerous.


Some feminists go on about how patriarchy is normative and defends a very narrow lifestyle husband-provider/wife stay-at-home type of thing...and rebel against it being imposed on all...but some go further and choose to impose, on themselves and others, ANOTHER set of rules, but their rules are 'good', because they're 'feminist'. Sorry I don't buy that THIS is feminism. This is patriarchy in disguise.

My body, my choice, choosing to do whatever without coercion is what feminism was once truly about.

(in reply to eepsy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/3/2008 1:49:52 PM   
SaraZeal


Posts: 144
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		I talked with my mom about how I view D/s, some of my interests (including ageplay, and diapers), and how/why I choose to submit rather than want an egalitarian relationship.

Let's say we've not agreed on everything. We've agreed on some points, disagreed on others, but we always keep on good terms and don't let it divide us.

The main point I disagree with her is that wanting a power exchange based relationship always means someone has low self-esteem. It can happen, but I doubt it cause submission or dominance in everyone. Maybe in some, but in my case, it's only correlative. I've had a heavy past, that I assume, and I'm far from being a doormat either - but I do have self-esteem issues. I don't think one caused the other though.

(in reply to SaraZeal)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/3/2008 7:23:53 PM   
Puppy4goodHome


Posts: 1448
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Beachwood Ohio and a few others
Status: offline 		If she gets upset about not being able to stay over becouse your Sir does not want or wish for that she needs to respect it i would say sit down and have a nice convesation with her talking things over and telling her how things are for you at the time and explaing what it is

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ross.g
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puppy

(in reply to eepsy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/4/2008 2:36:18 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		All my closest girlfriends are vanilla.  They are curious and want updates, but do not judge me or mistrust me.
 
An 'ex' girlfriend would not be a part of my life -- by definition.  If I end a friendship it's for very good reason and once it's over, it's over.
 
Some of my close men friends are vanilla.  We are friends -- meaning we never have discussed my intimate life -- or theirs.  With Dom friends I'm a bit more open, but I still don't give a blow by blow.
 
If someone who loved me told me I was 'in a bad situation' I'd give it some thought.  Maybe I'd agree, maybe I wouldn't.  But my friends are all bright, insightful people and Gawd knows I've made mistakes with men before.
 
candystripper

(in reply to SltlyBrokenAngel)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/25/2008 1:37:31 PM   
subeos


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline 		Old post old responce!
Your situation was not as bad as you say. You still shared a car with E and other things. So do not assume here that you were and are not involved with E. Only you know what i mean.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/25/2008 5:55:41 PM   
goodgirl08


Posts: 145
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline 		My friends are young, highly intelligent, thoughtful, and curious women like me, but there's only a certain point to which I share. Everyone knows I'm into kink, but most think it's a sexual thing. Even this has caused a couple of friends to raise concerns that I will end up with someone who will control me and make bad decisions for me - but it's impossible to explain that I'll only let someone control me who I think has nothing but good intentions, a long-term, caring & trusting relationship. But, I do value their input and they've definitely made me think hard about how important it is to choose a good person and to keep my strong sense of self no matter what, and be with someone who respects that. So I appreciate their commentary, but I think most of them don't get it totally, only a couple have admitted to having similar desires. And that's just the sexual stuff.

Only one friend knows I'm interested in D/s relationships, and she's a godsend because I feel like she can be my outlet when I want to talk to someone who a good old friend and also an experienced kinky person (former dominatrix, etc.). She's also one of the only person who doesn't pick at the feminist politics of being hetero and submissive, so that's a relief.

I really just don't think it's most people's business, even if they are close friends. I'll tell them a lot about my relationship but if I think they can't handle the full reality, I certainly don't feel a deep need to reveal everything. One of the greatest things about relationships is the special secret things you have that are between you and no one else.

So, in the future I'd advise being more wary about who you tell. It can be more trouble than it's worth and there's no Grand Rule that says you have to let every single friend know everything about you. It's nice to have a couple who do, but whatever. I imagine your friend is mostly upset about being told she can't sleep over, and I understand that, she is probably taking it as a personal slight, and fights between partners and friends are never good. I would just let the storm subside and be more cautious in the future.

(in reply to subeos)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/25/2008 6:21:47 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		One thing I would do is not refer to your master.  She does not understand your relationship, so don't talk about the dynamics of it.

Don't tell her "I can't see you because Master said so."

Instead say "I don't want to see you."

If you have any dominant female friends, I might introduce her to them.  Amazing how some people have HUGE problems with female submission but are totally OK with male submission.


(in reply to eepsy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/25/2008 9:09:40 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		freinds learn to accept friends..she just needs to learn your needs are changed and..while she might not like the changes..Your not being hurt by them..in fact, your living your live more fully than befor..

(in reply to eepsy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/25/2008 10:47:12 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I still think it's because you and she used to be a couple. Most people I know would have a problem if their lover decided to spend the night with the ex. And that's appropriate.

Whether submissive, dominant or other, when your present partner says they don't feel comfortable with you cuddling up with your previous partner, the previous partner ought to understand and accept that and not try to guilt you into spending the night in skimpy clothing with them. Maybe you need to put it in those simple terms.

You used to have sex with her and he doesn't feel gooey about you being half dressed all night with someone you used to have sex with when you have promised to only have sex with him. And that since you love him and care about him, you have no intention of doing something that would hurt him and harm your relationship.

Followed by asking very bluntly "Why are you so determined to destroy my relationship with a man that loves and protects me?"

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Huntertn)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/27/2008 3:24:07 PM   
subswalow


Posts: 25
Joined: 7/14/2008
Status: offline 		Bird: I went through this same situation with one of my friends not so long ago.
 
You either have to force her to see the light and accept what you are choosing for your life, or just kind of let her fade from your life.
 
It sounds to me like she's very jealous of the time you spend with him and not her, and that he now has ultimate sway over you where she used to have some control. It also seems that she is definitely struggling with what she wants for her life and there is also the possibility that she is railing against this so badly because she finds herself being more than a little curious about your situation and is struggling with her own inner turmoil of what she wants and what she thinks is right. =]
 
Good luck.
 
May she come to terms with your decisions.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/28/2008 8:46:43 AM   
roland23


Posts: 241
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Most of my friends are vanilla and know nothing about my lifestyle. Converting someone from vanilla to BDSM can be fun, but also frustrating and time-consuming. All the best!  

(in reply to eepsy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/28/2008 5:51:12 PM   
SltlyBrokenAngel


Posts: 38
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		Wow.... I can't believe this post is back up again... but thank you all for your responses!
 
Things have gotten much better with my friend and I.  She was helped a lot by talking to other submissive women that I've met, and who are in long term Ds relationships,  and she feels better about the situation.  She's also had some opportunities to meet with him and I think she feels better now that she knows him.  Overall my relationship with her is going well.
 
As for Sir and I - life is wonderful - we just spent the weekend together for Thunder and I'm moving next week to be closer to him. 
 
Never been happier! 
 
 
 
 
 

(in reply to roland23)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Negotiating the Waters with Vanilla Friends - 7/28/2008 5:55:49 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		i don't 'negotiate' with friends; i tell them upfront and honestly how i feel and let them know that while they may disagree with what i feel or what i do, if they 'air' it to over and over again, they won't be seeing me or hearing from me in the near future and leave it at that.

(in reply to SltlyBrokenAngel)
Profile   Post #: 37
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