RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (Full Version)

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stella41b -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/22/2008 7:10:03 PM)

Let me try and get this thread back on topic.

I'm TG and I'm 'out' and open about it. Partly because it is the best defence strategy, partly because it filters out all the idiots from my life, but primarily because it is who I really am. Doesn't make me any less female, just different. I'm also open about my LGBT and BDSM issues but like TG not completely. It's conditional. I'm open about who I am and my interests, but not about the way I live.

Seeking to transition, trying to transition and transitioning so far has taken me 10 years, but much of this was complicated by the fact that I'm a fringe playwright, the moment of truth came whilst I was living in Poland, during the most successful period of my artistic work, and it was a long, slow, gradual process which in the end fell apart miserably.

I feel it's important to make one point about society. Society here means North American or European society, or any English speaking country, and generally a society which is stable is more open and tolerant than a society which is going through a process of change or social upheaval. The five years under Lech Walesa in Poland between 1990 and 1995 were shock therapy, a nation's attempt to wipe out 60 years of its own history right up until - it seemed - the previous week, which created a very deep social division between 'old' and 'new', left and right, and even Poles themselves talk about Poland A and Poland B. The subsequent five years - from 1995 to 2000 were different under Aleksander Kwasniewski, it was an attempt to try to resolve some of the confusion and bring both the economy and society under control for entry to the European Union. For me personally these were my 'ascendancy years', where I arrived from nowhere, from the West, and came up with a style of theatre never seen before. My 'awakening' happened in 1998, and my desire to somehow start my transition was hampered by my growing popularity and reputation in theatre.

Lech Walesa achieved much of his success through the Catholic Church in Poland. Indeed, the term 'Solidarity' came from the teachings of Pope John Paul II - the Solicitus Rei Solidaris philosophy of the Catholic Church, which in Poland formed the unofficial political opposition to the former PZPR communist regime. Therefore the Polish Catholic Church was always supportive of the Polish Solidarity movement, more so after the brutal murder of Father Jerzy Popieluszki - a Warsaw priest who was most outspoken against the regime - in 1984 by three agents from Department IV, the anti-Church section of the former Polish Internal Affairs Ministry. Therefore the Church is supportive of the right wing in Polish politics. One of the side-effects of the bringing together of Poles to stand up against the former regime was intolerance towards gays and 'sexual deviants' but it can also be said that the former regime also conditioned Poles, as other Eastern Europeans, to be suspicious of anyone seen to be 'different'.

My whole life has been decided on two events - the staging of two of my plays in a pub at the International MALTA Theatre Festival in Poznan in 2000, one in Polish and the other in English, and the subsequent critical acclaim, and the success of one of my comedies in Warsaw theatre in 2001 and 2002. However at the time I was living in Warsaw I had already come out in my private life and was active in my real persona Stella in both the LGBT and BDSM communities. This was to start three years of a 'double life' where even a few of my neighbours in the apartment block where I lived in the centre of Warsaw assumed I was married... to myself. Increasing I became myself but I maintained a public image as an eccentric male playwright from the UK who had crossed over and become very much a part of Polish culture, known for this wonderful new 'teatr fringowy' (fringe theatre - my claim to fame is introducing this style of theatre to Polish theatre).

But living that double life was hard, very hard, and I had to be oh so very careful. It was stressful, in fact it was more than stressful, I was falling apart, crumbling, unable to function. I've outed myself on numerous occasions by accident, sometimes without knowing it or not realising it until later, a few times in media interviews, and wondering whether to just disappear before the papers came out or just leave Poland suddenly and mysteriously, which I did in 2004. But largely my coming out was deliberate, fuelled by the anger at both the restrictions on my own life, my own inability to go full time and transition, and by the oppression and intolerance faced by people in the LGBT and BDSM communities. I realised that I had a certain amount of influence in society and I decided I would try to use it. This is why some of my plays contain references to the transgendered, to LGBT, and to BDSM.

The last three years in Poland saw me at my most controversial. In 2002 I had staged a play about the sexual harrassment of women in the workplace, and my decision to turn from comedy to drama radically changed how I was perecived by people in theatre and in general. I was no longer loved by everyone, but had started to polarize people and divide audiences. But privately, as Stella, this won me more friends.

In 2003 I staged my play 'One Saturday' about domestic violence which was so successful at the MALTA Festival. My actors were drama students from the Academy of Film, Theatre and Television in Warsaw. Back in 2000 the actors portrayed a poor family, but in 2003 I told the actors I wanted them to portray a rich family. This play opens with a family meal, as the audience come into the theatre the actors are already on stage and eating a dinner on a table and the audience think they've missed the start of the play and all rush to their seats. They watch the actors eating.. then there's an eight minute long pause. No words, no actions, just three characters, father, mother, son, pissed with each other, staring into space. The actors wait, the pause is usually eight or nine minutes before the audience start becoming restless. When the atmosphere gets really tense the actors burst into a family argument which starts from one word - 'Dad' - and over four minutes there's 157 swear words exchanged a potential stabbing, fists raised, confrontations, plates fly and the entire dinner table is trashed.

This upset both a lot of people and most journalists and it broke a social taboo of domestic violence. For the first time I was giving interviews and the media were hostile. 'Do you think this happens in Polish homes?' they asked. 'It happened in my home a lot, it happened in many others, and I don't see how Polish households would be any different' came my reply. I had already become controversial for my outspoken views on Iraq, on Islamophobia, and in my responses to the media I attacked the double standards of Polish society in that a BDSM scene between consenting adults was socially unacceptable but nobody wanted to talk about how many Polish women were beaten by their husbands and how many kids were also beaten. I also made a fatal error - I let slip that I was preparing a play called 'Sunday 6.46am' about homosexual Polish priests.

This brought ostracization and even death threats. My phone was tapped. I lost a few friends, vanilla ones, those in the community promised to stand by me, and they did for some time. When a small group of people started picketing my rehearsals the artistic director suggested I take a break from the stage. I started to do voice overs, appeared in a film, and tried to set up Underground working with well-known Polish actors in a bar. But it didn't work out. Journalists started to ask me about my private life.. Meanwhile as Stella I started to get e-mails from television journalists asking me for an interview or information. I hid myself away. I didn't turn up for Christmas Eve 2004 with friends, planning to commit suicide on Boxing Day. This didn't work out due to friends, I tried to transition in Warsaw and find work as a woman and half-succeeded, but early 2005 I woke up, packed a holdall, left my apartment, stopped off at the Internet cafe to inform a few journalists that I was leaving Poland for good and went back to the UK to live in a BDSM household. Poland's top theatre critic wrote an article entitled 'A Curtain Falls' in the national newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza.

However 3 months later I returned to Warsaw, to the south, Zywiec due to the fact that I couldn't get on a gender reassignment program in the UK and things didn't work out in the BDSM household for one reason or another. I set up a theatre in Zywiec, going back to the double life, which attracted further media attention. By now it had become a game, I returned shortly after the death of Pope Jon Paul II and the rise of the right wing in Polish politics, unaware that this together with the mass exodus of Poles west had somehow changed Polish society. Hurricane Katrina only briefly interrupted a growing issue in Polish society - equal rights for the LGBT community. But I had come back to Poland intending to come out and wrote another play entitled 'Death' in Polish, intending to come out at the start of this production and direct it as Stella. My comeback was successful, my double life intact, but something changed.

It was a Sunday in October, I had a friend round reading the reviews, including a one page feature entitled 'Englishman and Cabbages' in the regional edition of Gazeta Wyborcza. I was reading the article in the tiny kitchen of this apartment, and happened to glance out of the window and see my neighbour - a middle-aged man who was jobless, and he was leaving his apartment with a plastic bag to collect beer cans to sell for recycling. 'This is f*cking bullshit' I thought. I felt guilty that I was deceiving people who had given me everything, and yet I could not be myself and I had to lie and deceive others.

But then again I had given too much away previously, I was still being asked in my interviews about my play 'Sunday' about homosexual priests and whether I intended to stage it or not. I either had to come out or be found out. I bit the bullet and chose the former. By now there were the Equality Parades where the LGBT community would march for equal rights. The big controversy was over the decision of the then Warsaw President Lech Kaczynski (later the Polish President) to declare the Warsaw Equality Parade illegal. The Poznan Equality Parade was broken up by hooligans and the extreme right wing Mlodziezy Wszechpolska (hard to translate into English but the Universal Polish Youth movement) and in Krakow gays and lesbians were being stoned whilst police looked on. I came out in November 2005 when the Warsaw Equality Parade was declared legal, informing my bosses at the theatre and City Council that I was transgendered, wished to be known as Stella and would be attending the Warsaw Equality Parade as Stella to show my support for the Polish LGBT community.

My downfall and the end of my career in Poland was no less spectacular than the beginning - I didn't even last 10 days and lost everything work, career, reputation, friends, contacts, money, my home, the whole damn lot. My saving grace was the translation of a Linux manual from Polish into English which repaid the money I borrowed to get away from Zywiec. I left behind a very uncomfortable silence and social taboo.

My friends tell me that even today people in Zywiec talk about the 'afera' (scandal) and all but two of my actors had to leave Zywiec. One took over the theatre, which now has an official website in Polish which makes no reference to me or my work, and another actress who still nobody wants to know.

I have no regrets. Not least since I'm expecting a visit from television journalists from Gdansk in the next week or two who want to interview me for a programme talking about LGBT and BDSM issues in Polish society. I got an e-mail a few weeks ago out of the blue, the fact that someone remembered me was a pleasant surprise, more so that they're interested in what I have to say.

But I am now here in London, and having come west I am well and truly out. I'm free to be myself and am opening in July a play which features characters interested in BDSM but I have a better idea of where the boundaries now lie as a result of my own learning curve. I guess I'm privileged to be able to use the stage as a platform for raising public awareness on BDSM issues. I have been accused in the past of trying to change society but this comes with a disclaimer, everyone who comes to see my work does so of their own free choice.

I still make the same distinction as before - I'm open about who I am and my interests, but the manner in which I live and my own lifestyle is very much my business and private. I'm happy to satiate curiosity and promote awareness, but I draw the line at providing people with validation for their preconceived notions and prejudices.




dreamerdreaming -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/22/2008 7:28:33 PM)

WOW, Stella.
 I've always admired your posts, but never knew much about you. Wow, you are an amazing person. Thank you for sharing.




littlesarbonn -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/22/2008 7:42:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

WOW, Stella.
I've always admired your posts, but never knew much about you. Wow, you are an amazing person. Thank you for sharing.


Yeah, I concur. That was a pretty amazing story.




OnlyMels -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/22/2008 8:10:51 PM)

Yeah some how my mother found out that I was into this lifestyle and I have a mental scar cause I then found out that she is to. I think I saw a copy of screw the roses send me the thorns at her house and I mentioned it to Daddy and he asked her about it.




TheGaggingWh0re -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/22/2008 8:29:12 PM)

Wow Stella!
That was an amazing read. I hope someday you do an autobiography on your life. Being scared about friends finding out is one thing, but to be threatened and have your whole life turned upside down because of it? Such an inexcusable act. I'm glad you got away as safely as at least keeping your life and that now you're better off.




chickpea -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 1:37:29 AM)

yea i sort of showed somewhat of an interest and experience in the lifestyle, though not accurate.  i told my stalker that he was acting like a boy and that maybe he needs a good whipping which I'd love to personally do to him sometime.  (that didn't work...*eye roll*   guess you never know what submissives are out there!)  [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m22.gif[/image]




SirDragon1961 -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 4:58:02 AM)

Wow Stella, I will re-read this again tomorrow for  more inspiration..

And for Heckle n Jeckle-  I started a thread for you to 'switch' copulate in, a poly dynamic is also welcome, just keep your tiring behaviour away from us Elders.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1957143/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1957143 


 




poisonedprogress -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 5:12:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

ok poison, calm down. I did some research into your issue. http://www.collarchat.com/m_1110895/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#1111040

I was wrong to argue with someone who is mentally disabled. If I continued, it would be cruel.


I should have known that you would avoid the entire argument and go for yet another insult. In this case you pulled a complete ad hominem. I don't expect you to know what that means, because you're a stupid old hag wandering around making shit up and insulting people on the internet. I find it quite funny that even in your insults you fail miserably by making even more stupid assumptions, as my syndrome is actually not a mental disability.

I should have just reported you and been done with it. Fortunately it is not too late.








came4U -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 5:30:25 AM)

quote:

It was wrong of you to barge into a thread with off-topic bitching and insults.


off-topic? saying that disclosure / outing is no mistake?  That is ON topic.

Barge in? I was in here on page 1.  When YOU barged in, THAT is barging.

quote:

I should have just reported you and been done with it.

...and so I shall!


aweee goodies for you.  "I just can't make her see that I am right (yet I look ridiculously out of bounds and out of control), why can't she just bow down to meeeeee?? criesssss [:(]"

get over it.

I did. Save your sobbing for a real emergency.

quote:

as my syndrome is actually not a mental disability.


I am not the one calling it a disability, your gagging friend posted that it is.  Not my problem.

Like I said, I will not (out of pity) tolerate your abuse any further, despite your mental disability, but I even tire of using that as an excuse for you being a cuss jackass.








poisonedprogress -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 5:32:41 AM)

For those who think that outing oneself cannot be an accident, I refer you to the definition of accident...

ac·ci·dent [image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image] 
–noun
1.
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2.
Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3.
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
4.
chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.
5.
a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth.
6.
Philosophy. any entity or event contingent upon the existence of something else.
7.
Geology. a surface irregularity, usually on a small scale, the reason for which is not apparent. 

See all the bolded? This means that if you out yourself in any way that is undesirable, unfortunate, or unintentional, then your outing was an accident according to not just one, but several definitions of the word accident. If you're going to go so far as to make the completely unqualified claim that everyone who outs themselves under any circumstances is doing so with the full intent of doing so, despite vividly describing in great detail exactly how and why their outing was undesirable, unfortunate, or unintentional, then you're going to have to provide some kind of evidence of your super-duper mind-reading mega-powers. Stop bitching and contribute, or go troll elsewhere.




ModeratorSixteen -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 5:42:36 AM)

Time to calm down.




poisonedprogress -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 5:50:00 AM)

quote:

off-topic? saying that disclosure / outing is no mistake?  That is ON topic.


The topic is, and I quote, "Ever out yourself on accident?"

The OP is a story of outing oneself on accident. Followed by the question "So, anyone else got some stories to share?"

At no point anywhere in the OP is the nature of the definition of accident put up for debate. The purpose of this thread is clearly to share stories about accidental outing, not to make shit up, pretend people said it, then insult them for it.

quote:

Barge in? I was in here on page 1.  When YOU barged in, THAT is barging.


I've contributed not one but two tales of accidental outing, in addition to pointing out that you've made numerous incorrect assumptions (which have been corrected) and numerous insults (which have been refuted).

quote:

aweee goodies for you.  "I just can't make her see that I am right (yet I look ridiculously out of bounds and out of control), why can't she just bow down to meeeeee?? criesssss [:(]"


This coming from the one who told me to grow up kid. You have got to be the most immature old bitch I've ever encountered on the internet. After directly refuting every incorrect assumption you've made, and totally invalidating your delusional opinion, you cop the pre-school "I mockses you!" move. Very tasteful and classy you are.

quote:

get over it.

I did. Save your sobbing for a real emergency.


lol @ not reading.

quote:

I am not the one calling it a disability, your gagging friend posted that it is.  Not my problem.


There you go making assumptions again. In this case your assumption was that my gagging friend was correct. Your constant incorrect assumptions are most definitely your problem.

quote:

Like I said, I will not (out of pity) tolerate your abuse any further, despite your mental disability, but I even tire of using that as an excuse for you being a cuss jackass.


You're the one who started with the abuse. You're also the one who continued the abuse when the abuse was pointed out, and when the premises of your abusive opinions were refuted. You also refused to address any of the refuted assumptions or apologize for any of the abuse when prompted, along with a reciprocal apology from myself for attacking you in response.









poisonedprogress -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 6:00:35 AM)

A friend of mine accidentally outed themselves to me (bisexual, not BDSM) by typing into the wrong IM box and sending it to me instead of a different friend. I had actually made similar slip-ups via IM, but they were not so direct that I couldn't "cover" them by pretending I was just saying wacky random IM crap. At this point I am less concerned about as most of my friends know about my kinky side. Even those that don't know I don't think I'd mind knowing, I just don't intentionally come out to them in case they would rather not know.

Also... that is an epic tale Stella. I'll stop contributing to the drama now, I promise.




vampchick88 -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 6:39:10 AM)

I've let certain things slip, I've had some people ask questions on "how could freaks be into tying eachother up during sex" my usual reply "That ain't bad, you should see what they can do with floggers!" I have a few friends who know I'm in the lifestyle and ask questions of curiosity, others who I don't care if they know or not I'm just me, and of course I do enjoy a good round of freak out the normies who are bothering/pointing/staring/etc....~Lorelei




camille65 -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 8:14:56 AM)

Yes I've done it, more than once.
A few years ago a niece found some corset photos on my laptop and now my family thinks I am some sort of internet prostitute lol. Hurt me deeply at the time but now I can look back and laugh.

At work, when I worked in a large bookstore I ended up completely outting myself to a few customers and some staff.
A customer was looking for some basic BDSM books and the clerk helping was totally clueless so I took over and sold several solid and good books to start from.
At that point on, it was known that if a customer needed help in 'that area' , I was the one to go to.

I've also worn a triskele for the last decade and of course some customers recognized it, they would sometimes comment which would reduce me to a blushing stammering idjit or more rarely they would try and pick me up. [:D]


So the first was a complete accident and the bookstore more of a blunder of helpfulness that ended up outting me.

Of course it can happen by accident. A slip of the tongue is not always a Freudian slip of intent. Not closing out a web page is not always intentional.
Accidents happen!




CruelDesires -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 11:34:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I've also worn a triskele for the last decade and of course some customers recognized it, they would sometimes comment which would reduce me to a blushing stammering idjit or more rarely they would try and pick me up. [:D]


My slave and I both wear them around our necks. Just two weekends ago a  vendor at the local Renn faire noticed hers and asked if we were Goreans. It made me chuckle. [:D]

BTW. I am out and don't care who knows.

CD




JoePNY707 -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 12:13:19 PM)




quote:

So one day I might just let slip, to see their reaction! ( Actually Mum, I wasnt sitting reading last night, I was tied to a bed being whipped by two women.......)


LOLOL!! spinninsweetness, I'd love to be a fly on the wall and watch THAT discussion! [:D]




JoePNY707 -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 12:19:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mztresn0w

I outed myself to of all people my boss. It was an accident. He outed himself first. A gentleman came in and demanded to speak with my boss. I asked him his name and he told me to go tell him Mr. such in such needed to speak with him right now. So I went back and relayed the message. I watched this very much in charge person take off for the front area of the business thinking of this guy in the lobby is going to get it. Imagine my surprise when my boss clasped his hand behind his back lowered his head and said "Daddy such in such " You could have knocked me over. Then when my boss was through talking to his Daddy. He wanted to speak to me and try to explain every thing I had heard. So I finally had to tell him Listen I know what you were doing and who he really is to you. He finally realized he didn't need to explain anymore. Then he knew I was in the lifestyle. We have never discussed it since. But for his birthday that year. I gave him a matching set of floggers for his Daddy.




Now THAT is what I call a great work environment!

*grin* did you have the floggers monogrammed? [:)]




JoePNY707 -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 12:22:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abcbsex

I outed myself as bi-curious when I got angry at my friend who kept calling polyamorous people sluts. This is the same friend who, the week earlier, had come to ME to discuss this newly found alternative lifestyle, who asked ME questions even though she had no idea I was interested in it, and found that I had the information and knowledge of this lifestyle to accept it as just a way of life... when she said, "you know what's another word for polyamorous?" a week later I steeled myself for the answer and she said, "sluts". I just stared at her blankly... then she went into a tirade about how anyone interested in that just wants to "cheat for free" and in a calm voice (though I was pretty irritated) I told her that Alpha and I went up to a gay bar the previous night so I could dance with girls... she shut up after that.


GREAT comeback!!! Lets hope it made her think, instead of just making blanket judgements.




JoePNY707 -> RE: Ever out yourself by accident cause the vanillas got on your nerves? (6/23/2008 12:24:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

People. Show your maturity by not responding to someone you feel is attacking you. Say your piece and be done. This endless bickering is not only annoying, but it also shows a lack of control on your emotions and behavior. Expecially when it comes from a "dominant".

CD


Well said!




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