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RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 3:21:34 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned
I do not understand how you can say: I am a submissive any more than you could say: I am a obedient. How can you actually be something that is a state of or a willingness to act in a certain way or behavior?

Well for me, submissive, in wiitwd, is an orientation. A person is submissive whether they are on a desert island or kneeling in front of their dom. They do not have to be in a relationship AS a submissive to be a submissive, they simply have to be oriented TOWARDS a relationship as a submissive.

quote:

what really can there be in difference of being submissive and being a slave to that said Owner that your following the authority of?

Are you asking the difference between a sub and a slave?

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 21

RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 3:49:25 PM

swtnsparkling

Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Submissive is what you are.
Obedient is what you do.

d/s relationship i am His obedient submissive

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to subrdn8)

Post #: 22

RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 4:11:58 PM

MsIncognito

Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

For myself I don't find dictionary definitions to be all that helpful when talking about obedience and submission as it relates to D/s. In the context of a D/s relationship I would say that submission speaks to your state of mind and being. Obedience is submission manifest in observable behaviour.

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 23

RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 4:16:57 PM

MsIncognito

Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

I don't. This is why I describe myself in my profile as a 'bottomy-type.' I have referred to myself as submissive and probably will again at some point simply because it's a commonly used/understood (mostly) term within the community and facilitates communication.

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned
Ok so how do people equate saying they are a submissive with the fact that being submissive is a "state of"?

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 24

RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 4:35:38 PM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

Are you asking the difference between a sub and a slave?

heh no..I'm trying to figure out how there can even exist being a difference as most seem to feel there is.

But again it is very confusing and hard to do as some feel you can actually be a submissive just as the same as you can be a woman..definative, and some feel it is a personallity trait or a behavior of that person or of that woman..or man as the case may be. Then you go by dictionary definitions and there really isn't much difference between submissive/obedient but yet alot say the difference between a submissive and slave is the fact of being obedient all the time inwhich they would have to submit to something/someone to be obedient to there by being in a state of submission or submissive. So does that mean that a person that calls themselves a submissive is not obedient all the time or submissive all the time, and only as it suits them such as only submissive in the bedroom? Are they then a slave in the bedroom for that time they are submitting to the will of their partner and being obedient by doing as they are told?

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 11/4/2005 4:55:14 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 25

RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 8:01:58 PM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

great question starshine!

being submissive is being deferential while being obedient is doing what is commanded

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 26

RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 10:43:25 PM

krazysubbiekat

Posts: 145
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

Sweet and succint kisshou...and a very good definition I do believe.

_____________________________

"Treat every day like it is a gift. Unwrap it and then wrap your arms around it; it will surprise and intrigue you." --N. Elchibini

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 27

RE: How do you define - 11/4/2005 11:17:45 PM

kateindenver

Posts: 35
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline

The difference between obedience and submission is:

Obedience is doing what is expected. Anyone can be obedient but submissive turns her will and control over to another and obedience is what follows. I am a submissive and I obey all the time or most of it) I am not always perfect, nor does my Master expect me to be. He expects me to continue to show how i striving towards perfection in a certain areas or behavior. He says is everyone was perfect it would be boring and there would be no differences and no one strive for or have aspirations at all. A dog can be trained to obey and do as he is told.. I submit and obey because I want to and it is my service and it is my surrender

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 28

RE: How do you define - 11/5/2005 3:20:40 PM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Ok so how do people equate saying they are a submissive with the fact that being submissive is a "state of"?

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

i use "submissive" as a noun; according to Merriam-Webster, it can only be used as a adverb or adjective.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=submissive

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionare

i'm not alone in thinking "submissive" is a noun; we even have an "Ask a Submissive/Slave" Section on the Forum here.

Myself, i am gonna continue my usage as a noun.

Now, having said that; i will say it is hard/impossible to demonstrate or give voice to one's submissiveness in the absence of a Dom/Master/Domme. While naturally dominant people can use those character traits in their daily lives, most submissives have families and homes and jobs to look after and cannot be anything other than assertive at times, since there is no dominant to step in and take charge.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/5/2005 3:21:37 PM >

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 29

RE: How do you define - 11/5/2005 4:09:53 PM

SirSix72

Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

candystripper,

there is a difference in between being proactive and reactive.....just because bella takes care of certain situation dosent mean she isnt being a slave this means she is proactive.......to obey on command only is being reactive......these types need micro managment in order to function........there is a fine line in between the both of them

Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 30

RE: How do you define - 11/6/2005 7:18:13 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

candystripper,

there is a difference in between being proactive and reactive.....just because bella takes care of certain situation dosent mean she isnt being a slave this means she is proactive.......to obey on command only is being reactive......these types need micro managment in order to function........there is a fine line in between the both of them

Master Six

Yes; i have heard others refer to "micro-managing" a slave and most seem unwilling to do so. Such a woman would be called "high maintenance" in the vanilla world; and my men friends did not feel much attraction to them either.

Everyone's relationship is different; i'd say if it works for Them, and is not harming anyone, we should applaud Their happiness and refrain from criticising in all but obvious abuse cases.

candystripper

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 31

RE: How do you define - 11/6/2005 7:36:08 AM

hawk58

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline

Here we go again with definitions ad symantics.

For me, my opinion only. Submission, is the act of submitting. Submissive, is an adjective describing a characteistic, or personality trait a person has. It is either a verb, or an adjective. Not a noun. I don't identify as a submissive. I identify as a slave, or owned property. Hell, in many cases, submissive isnt even an adjective i would use to describe myself.

If someone said i was a submissive, i would beg to differ, but agree that i do submit to One auhtorty.

The same as obedience. Both words- submit, and obey are very similar. I am expect to submit my will to His, and i am expected to obey a command.

One would be the submitting of ones will to another. The other would be the act of following a specific command.

Hope that made some kind of sence.
Again, ymmv

-dove

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 32

RE: How do you define - 11/6/2005 8:40:28 AM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

Thankyou hawk, nicely put

I think it quite okay to do the "here we go again" in area's where communication seems to impart such a wide spectrum. For me when I see written words, and I can go back and say yes I saw that person's meaning of that word before..it makes my understanding and communicating back all the more easy.

Thankyou All for giving your views on this

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to hawk58)

Post #: 33

RE: How do you define - 11/8/2005 7:53:18 PM

MasterEsqMDsgirl

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline

Am i understanding the question as the difference (if any) between submission and obedience to ones owner?

If so, i would have to include my two cents as follows: While levels of submission are inherent in all humans, submission in the context of a D/s or M/s relationship is a state of mind. Obedience to ones owner is the choice the mind set allows to occur.

_____________________________

To endure for Owner's pleasures is the trait of a submissive, but to derive pleasure from that endurance because it is pleasing to ones OWNER is the trait of a slave.

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 34

RE: How do you define - 11/8/2005 7:59:56 PM

wipmebeetme100

Posts: 198
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

the difference of being submissive to your Owner from being obedient.

Being obedient is just one small part of being submissive to my owner.

cathy

_____________________________

Happiness is like peeing your pants: Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth
~Unknown

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 35

RE: How do you define - 11/8/2005 9:39:54 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

subrdn8

Submissive is what you are.

Obedient is what you do.

Nuh-uh.

Submissive is what I do.

(if and only if)

Obedient is what she are.

(in reply to subrdn8)

Post #: 36

RE: How do you define - 11/9/2005 5:18:49 AM

cltcdrd

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrdn8

Major oversimplification:

Submissive is what you are.

Obedient is what you do.

I have always believed ( and this is my own personal definition) that submission was more of a mental aspect, where as Obedience is more of a physical act that arises from Submission.

_____________________________

~~May Bright Blessings Be Bestowed Upon You and Yours~~

(in reply to subrdn8)

Post #: 37

RE: How do you define - 11/9/2005 6:02:50 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

In a business or work situation, and especially in my previous profession, I would give a command and expect it to be obeyed. Those under my command would obey because the command was given, not because they were/are submissive. This is obedience to authority. This applies to the Military and similar professions and to all forms of employment. After we do obey he who signs the paycheck don't we?

When some one in my collar obeys a command I give. Firstly they are obeying because the collar agreement means that they have submitted to me and has accepted me as their Master. This applies irrespective if they be a slave or a submissive. Their submission is a desire within them to submit to a master and a desire/need to serve and please some one they have formed some form of trust with and see as their Master or potential Master at the early stages.

I would not expect anyone under my authority in or out of the lifestyle to obey another person (Business/professions will vary on this). The only time I expect anyone in my collar to obey a command given by another in the lifestyle is if I have given permission in specific areas in which he or she are to obey others (such as serving food or refreshment). The only exception is that all in my personal collar will obey all commands given by Lady Neets, unless they are doing something for me. All such parameters would be covered in the initial induction into my home.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 11/9/2005 6:03:44 AM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to cltcdrd)

Post #: 38

RE: How do you define - 11/9/2005 8:29:03 AM

MisterCorvidae

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/15/2004
From: Crow
Status: offline

Good Morning
I saw this one and thought “Oh goody a fun one to answer”. Upon thinking about it a little it is not so much going to be fun, but the situation I am going to relate is fun for me as you might be able to see upon reading it. This short story s about a submissive that I have seen go from a very antagonistic scared girl to a well developed submissive with real growth within herself and her submission.
D was in a long distance relationship with who is now her husband and Master, at this time D was being Trained/Mentored by a married couple with Dom/Domme orientations. D was required to be the house girl for a party, her responsibilities were to serve the male and drinks to those in attendance. She had a co-server whom had to only responsibility of watching the food to keep it warm and assist in the gathering of the used dishes between courses. D was PISSED to put it lightly, first off to be in the role of servant, second for what she considered a heavy load while her compatriot was lightly loaded.
D served quite well, drinks filled dishes gathered or replenished as indicated by the guests. The problem was she was also making all these snippy comments, was being compulsive about picking something up or refreshing them, in general being bratty while still basically performing her assigned duty. In essence she was being obedient to the directive she was not however submitting to said directive.
Skip ahead 6 months same situation same people basically same foods and beverages. D was awesome, she wasn’t more graceful but more controlled, she wasn’t more attentive yet she was more efficient, she wasn’t any happier about it but she was less vocal or otherwise indicative of her displeasure in the situation. In essence she was not only obedient she had also submitted in this instance. It was awesome to watch and be able to note this change. It has been awesome watching her do these things growing and flourishing as a submissive.
This to me is a witnessed account of the difference between being obedient and submitting. As in all things this is my opinion your may vary and understandably so, take what you want and leave the rest, the kind of day I wish is of the very best.
Sincerely
Crow
Ok maybe not a definition but a good example perhaps.

_____________________________

Insanity could be: taking the same action over and over while each time expecting different results.
“To thine own self be true,
And it must follow,
as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.”
William Shakespeare

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 39

RE: How do you define - 11/10/2005 6:21:48 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

i can only respond to this topic from my own experience. im probably going to sound like a bad slave..but here goes...
i believe i am totally submitted to Master, He owns my heart - that is the definition of submission to me.
i do my best to obey him. i desire to obey him...and i think i do mostly...sometimes though im not totally obedient, for whatever reason..either i may have forgotten something, or didnt have time, or i got distracted..or..well the list goes on...
i do not think this is a reflection on my submission or my slavery to him...it just means i have a personality with all its quirks...and probably in need of some improvement in that area...
well thats the difference i see in submission and obedience..they are co-related..but not the same.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 40

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