quote:

ORIGINAL: BurntRose

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

You state ...should'nt a Dominants main perogative be ensuring their sub is happy and providing what they need ...I say not necessarily so...not in all D/s dynamics ...and then again who decides what the needs and desires are?..the sub? or the Dominant?

Obviously the Dom has the deciding voice, otherwise they wouldnt be dominant, but if the dominant isnt fulfilling the needs - and by needs i dont necessarily mean their conscious desires or something they just want, as people often what we want and what we need don't coincide - of the sub and no amount of communication on both parts can solve this, then is the relationship going to work? as i read on another thread somewhere, you can have a Dominant and you can have a submissive, but that doesnt necessarily make a succesful relationship.

quote:

I think this holds true in any relationship, if the needs of both parties arent being met then it isnt going to work out, it seems that within a D/s dynamic the added pressure comes when a Dominant can't read their sub and for some reason the sub cannot communicate what they need maybe because they dont understand themselves what they really want or maybe because of some other factor.

quote:

the fact remains that by submitting we relinquish some aspect of control, but how much control do you have to give up? does submitting mean you have to stay in an unfulfilling relationship because you have agreed to submit? imho the answer is no, if the Dominant does not fulfill your needs and make you happy to be submitting then you always have the prerogative to walk away.

quote:

sorry if i seem to be rambling or repeating myself a bit, this is a really interesting point for me and is raising a lot of questions as to the nature of a D/s dynamic. lol, I'm trying to argue all sides in my head and just making myself more confused.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But, this thread is about submissive responsibility and, like it or not, there comes those times when...for whatever reason...the submissive does not choose to submit because they "don't like" they way the dominant is leading and they get it into their head that he is supposed to lead them differently.  The frustrating part of this is they "won't try to top from the bottom" and tell the dominant just how that is but the way the dominant is doing it is not it.  Which begs the question...is that not topping from the bottom when you have made a determination that the dominance you have been following is, for some reason, not right today? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

-=Be accountable For Your Choice To Surrender=-

Do not fight for control if you choose to give it away.  It is a common mistake I see when a slave/sub starts losing the feeling of being controlled and does not examine their own responsibility for the change as well as Masters.

I believe this happens when a slave doesn’t take responsibility for the fact that it is was their choice to surrender in the first place.  They feel "captured" and “held in place” by Master’s actions more than their own choices.  A Master’s actions can only serve remind a slave of their place.  Forced seduction and capture are a common romantic slave fantasy but, when the lines between the reality of their choices and their fantasy collide, they need to deal with it and hold their place with the Master.  Neither surrendering nor choosing that Master were forced.

A slave/sub needs to stand accountable for their choices.  Misplacing either the blame or credit for surrender is emotionally abusive.  It has long been my contention that in a collaring ritual, a Master should hand the slave the collar and make her put it on herself to keep the reality of her choice in place.

-Kalon Eric

Just saying…

(part of my random BDSM philosophy for the masses) 

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

I'm not sure I have anything helpful to add but did have a question.

Could it be possible that in many real time M/s relationships, the slave/sub and Master at times each become relaxed in their roles? As it was already pointed out somewhere in this thread, real life can beat us down and maybe we briefly lose sight of our dynamic. Best case scenario would be that it does not happen to both parties at the same time. I can't speak for Master but I realize when I am being less than the submissive I promised to be, sometimes after the fact but there are times I realize it as it is happening. I am probably much harder on myself than he could ever be. (Well....um..I'll leave that one alone for now) His staying consistent always brings me back. In turn when he is going through down times, maybe not leading as much as I have come to rely upon, I have to force myself to remember who I am, who we are. If I stay consistently serving...because lets face it, as time goes by without being told I know what he likes, how he wants things....he comes back as well.

For me it is about being realistic. Not only taking responsibility for my own choice to submit but also being sympathetic to him. When he does the same we balance each other out. In other words, it is not in my best interest when he has let his guard down to say "screw this, I'm not doing it. He won't notice anyway." Instead keep serving. Am I not doing the serving part for him anyway? Ahhh, this was the hardest part for me. I read somewhere: Serve & expect nothing in return, in doing so you will receive all you desire. I wish I could remember where it came from. When I am a good girl and serve him whether he is being his most dominant or his least dominant, I win every time. I am rewarded by feeling good about myself, knowing I've made him happy or made his life easier somehow, he is most always appreciative and gives me praise, and whether on a conscious level or not he sees me as his slave in a good light, as very valuable to him. So yes, I win!

And when he remains constant even when I am not, it pulls me back and helps me remember why we each chose to live as Master and slave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

I'm not sure how what I said meant I wanted to be controlled "my" way. If that is how it came across it is certainly not what I meant but I guess I do not always speak my mind clearly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

I'm not sure how what I said meant I wanted to be controlled "my" way. If that is how it came across it is certainly not what I meant but I guess I do not always speak my mind clearly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

I'm not sure I have anything helpful to add but did have a question.

Could it be possible that in many real time M/s relationships, the slave/sub and Master at times each become relaxed in their roles? As it was already pointed out somewhere in this thread, real life can beat us down and maybe we briefly lose sight of our dynamic. Best case scenario would be that it does not happen to both parties at the same time. I can't speak for Master but I realize when I am being less than the submissive I promised to be, sometimes after the fact but there are times I realize it as it is happening. I am probably much harder on myself than he could ever be. (Well....um..I'll leave that one alone for now) His staying consistent always brings me back. In turn when he is going through down times, maybe not leading as much as I have come to rely upon, I have to force myself to remember who I am, who we are. If I stay consistently serving...because lets face it, as time goes by without being told I know what he likes, how he wants things....he comes back as well.

For me it is about being realistic. Not only taking responsibility for my own choice to submit but also being sympathetic to him. When he does the same we balance each other out. In other words, it is not in my best interest when he has let his guard down to say "screw this, I'm not doing it. He won't notice anyway." Instead keep serving. Am I not doing the serving part for him anyway? Ahhh, this was the hardest part for me. I read somewhere: Serve & expect nothing in return, in doing so you will receive all you desire. I wish I could remember where it came from. When I am a good girl and serve him whether he is being his most dominant or his least dominant, I win every time. I am rewarded by feeling good about myself, knowing I've made him happy or made his life easier somehow, he is most always appreciative and gives me praise, and whether on a conscious level or not he sees me as his slave in a good light, as very valuable to him. So yes, I win!

And when he remains constant even when I am not, it pulls me back and helps me remember why we each chose to live as Master and slave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

I'm not sure how what I said meant I wanted to be controlled "my" way. If that is how it came across it is certainly not what I meant but I guess I do not always speak my mind clearly.

you should actually quote who your refering to. I have no clue if your refering to me or someone else.....

Usually when I do quote someone, I touch on what they said, and moved on.......

The first sentence in what I quoted was about what you said being healthy, I moved on to unhealthy, the exact opposite. Nothing I said after the first sentence had anything to do with what you said.....

I'm going to presume I'm wasting my time and your talking to someone else.....quote people your refering to......

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

I'm not sure how what I said meant I wanted to be controlled "my" way. If that is how it came across it is certainly not what I meant but I guess I do not always speak my mind clearly.

Fr-fast reply means "in general" . not to the one above

quote:

"La De Da...   I believe this is a element anytime you are in charge of anybody or anything.   The power of Yes/No.   Remember there's a reason why somebody asks something of you.   Because you have the power to Grant or Deny.  You can always ask about thier motivation for asking. "

quote:

In my book it's only topping from the bottom, if they can pull one over on your ass.  If they do, you should explore the reasons why it happened.   If you the type of Dom that says YES when you honestly wanted to say NO, and you have a major issue with it afterwards.   Time for you to Haul your own ass in front of a fucking mirror and take some time to explore yourself a little more.

quote:

It's a bit like having Kids too.  If you constantly give into begging and pleading and let them wear you down time and time again.  Where they do not respect the word "NO", it's because they know if they work on you long enough you'll break down and say "YES".    If you are consistent and say what you honestly mean, stick to your guns and explain yourself.   Listen to them as well, acknowledge their feelings are hurt as well.  Well, that goes a long way when you say "NO".

These concepts apply to dealing with anybody, not just limited to BDSM or "the lifestyle".   Perhaps, I'm missing something here, I don't think I am.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But, this thread is about submissive responsibility and, like it or not, there comes those times when...for whatever reason...the submissive does not choose to submit because they "don't like" they way the dominant is leading and they get it into their head that he is supposed to lead them differently.  The frustrating part of this is they "won't try to top from the bottom" and tell the dominant just how that is but the way the dominant is doing it is not it.  Which begs the question...is that not topping from the bottom when you have made a determination that the dominance you have been following is, for some reason, not right today? 

Here is where I have a difference in opinion. Isn't this example more a direct miscommunication between the people involved? I mean, we subs do have to communicate our wants/desires/needs to the dom. Granted when we are playing with our dim and the scene isn't going well, the sub needs to rely this info to their dom, I fail to see how this can be misconstrued as topping from the bottom, it's simply using communication to express a dissatisfaction or opinion knowing that it may or may not be used yet we still hope that it will be taken into consideration.
  How I see my responsibility in a d/s relationship is I have to communicate my feelings/thoughts/opinions etc to my dom, I have to do my best to hold up my end of the relationship to him and for him. He needs to do the same for me but from his end of the spectrum. I find it is logical especially looking at this from a different angle, the fact that yes in many ways my dom wants to ensure I am happy for the most part and I have to do the same for my dom. In this it is a two way avenue and is non negotiable to assist in having a sound and stable relationship.
  I am not naive to believe that all my wants/needs/desires will be satisfied all the time/when I want them to be satisfied. That is the nature of life and of willingly being in a d/s relationship. To be blatantly honest, I do not wish to have all my desires/needs fulfilled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

Owner that makes complete sense to me. It has been some time now but there was a point when I was acting out. I could not put my finger on the reason but my behavior was hurting me and him because he cares so much, and I could not figure out why I was hurting. Until one night we sat down and really started talking about some things.

What had happened was that his other slave lived there at that point. In all actuality he spent more quality time with me but it was not the time or even that she lived there that bothered me. I felt as if she cooked, cleaned, ran daily errands and I had no purpose. I kept saying I felt useless and he thought I meant unloved. We had this miscommunication until we were face to face and he could see the pain in my eyes. I explained further, then the light bulb went on for both of us. He had been wanting to use me to help with his business but had not asked. From that day on I became very involved with his business and those incidents stopped. (I am not saying it was proper of me to have the melt downs to begin with mind you, we all mess up sometimes). Communication is so important and yet often so difficult.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

Owner that makes complete sense to me. It has been some time now but there was a point when I was acting out. I could not put my finger on the reason but my behavior was hurting me and him because he cares so much, and I could not figure out why I was hurting. Until one night we sat down and really started talking about some things.

As Leatherist pointed out "Fears are pretty simple. Take a moment to explain how you are feeling-or what you need to do."

Sub/slaves that tip toe around me like they are walking on egg shells, tend to make me uncomfortable and nervous.   In fact anybody walking around me like this period, makes me feel the same way.   I tend to make the hault whatever it is they are doing, think they are trying to do.   I'll get to the point and ask questions.  In short, I don't like being surrounded by uneasy people.  If something is on your mind, my spidey senses tend to pick up on it.

The thing is, that some s-types are lost in their own worlding fighting themselves, over saying or not saying anything at times.  You know, like if they do express what's on their mind, they have somehow violated some secret submissive code of conduct and somebody is going to revoke their membership for it.