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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:34:02 PM   
BrigandDoom


Posts: 155
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From: Nottingham
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

Take the US out of the UN, tell the whole blinkin lot of 'em to find someplace ELSE to sit and bitch to each other about how bad we are...
 
and while they're at it, pay all their back friggin bills to the US - all that Foreign Aid, back rent on the building, every ticket ever given a foreign national that was then torn up due to 'diplomatic immunity'....


Considering the fact that one of your own Presidents, Woodrow Wyatt set up the basis of the UN, the League of Nationas after the end of the first world war, I think you have something of a cheek complaining about it!

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:34:30 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The UN is the perfect cover for Evil-Doers to cloak their heinous acts.

If they really ever acted independently, they'd be bulldozed into the HUDSON river. ( look at a map to understand the hyperbole in that statement ).




< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/23/2008 3:37:10 PM >

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:36:56 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrigandDoom

Woodrow Wilson



Ssshhhh! The antichrist!

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 6/23/2008 3:41:53 PM >

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:39:52 PM   
BrigandDoom


Posts: 155
Joined: 12/29/2007
From: Nottingham
Status: offline 		Your right, I was thinking of a dodgy politician who became an even dodgier columnist in one of the UK less than truthful rags (newspapers) for some reason.

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:43:00 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Considering the fact that one of your own Presidents, Woodrow Wyatt set up the basis of the UN, the League of Nationas after the end of the first world war, I think you have something of a cheek complaining about it!


Do you mean Woodrow Wilson?  Yes he did come up with the League of Nations, but our Congress refused to participate in it.  The reason?  It was an idiotic idea.  Wilson was the son of a Presybeterian minister and he was an idealist.  He actually believed Europeans would step away from imperialism.  Of course they didn't, and they turned Weinmar Germany into their whipping boy.  It's what caused the rise of Nazism, gave us Hitler, and the Second World War. 


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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:43:44 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Wasn't Woodrow Wyatt writing in the News of the Screws or sumfink? Anyhow, he was a fucking turncoat. And a fascist. Goes without saying.

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:45:21 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

He actually believed Europeans would step away from imperialism.  Of course they didn't, and they turned Weinmar Germany into their whipping boy.  



Oy! What's that 'of course' thing about, huh? What do you mean, 'of course they didn't', aye?

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:54:58 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrigandDoom

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

Take the US out of the UN, tell the whole blinkin lot of 'em to find someplace ELSE to sit and bitch to each other about how bad we are...
 
and while they're at it, pay all their back friggin bills to the US - all that Foreign Aid, back rent on the building, every ticket ever given a foreign national that was then torn up due to 'diplomatic immunity'....


Considering the fact that one of your own Presidents, Woodrow Wyatt set up the basis of the UN, the League of Nationas after the end of the first world war, I think you have something of a cheek complaining about it!


Nice try, but the League of Nations was set up by the Treaty of Versailles... care to guess which country refused to ratify it?

And the League was not the basis for the UN, the League fell apart before there ever was a  UN because it was a failure.

The United Nations (credit Byron) was set up on the basis of Churchill's Atlantic Charter. Good luck finding a copy of that being signed by the US either...

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 3:57:32 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Do you mean Woodrow Wilson?  Yes he did come up with the League of Nations, but our Congress refused to participate in it.  The reason?  It was an idiotic idea.  Wilson was the son of a Presybeterian minister and he was an idealist.  He actually believed Europeans would step away from imperialism.  Of course they didn't, and they turned Weinmar Germany into their whipping boy.  It's what caused the rise of Nazism, gave us Hitler, and the Second World War. 




If you mean the Treaty of Versailles, wasnt this based on President Wilsons Fourteen Points ?

Weinmar Germany called itself Deuteches Reich, or German Empire. So maybe that was an early indication of thier aims.

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 4:02:57 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The United Nations (credit Byron) was set up on the basis of Churchill's Atlantic Charter. Good luck finding a copy of that being signed by the US either...



According to the U.S. Department of State website:

"Once World War II began, President Franklin D. Roosevelt determined that U.S. leadership was essential for the creation of another international organization aimed at preserving peace, and his administration engaged in international diplomacy in pursuit of that goal.  He also worked to build domestic support for the concept of the United Nations.  After Roosevelt’s death, President Harry S Truman also assumed the important task of maintaining support for the United Nations and worked through complicated international problems, particularly with the Soviet Union, to make the founding of the new organization possible.  After nearly four years of planning, the international community finally established the United Nations in the spring of 1945. "
 
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/55407.htm

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 6/23/2008 4:03:31 PM >

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 4:06:06 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Oy! What's that 'of course' thing about, huh? What do you mean, 'of course they didn't', aye?


You know what I mean Kittin.  The French and the British were absolute bastards after the First World War.  Both promised to be fair with the defeated Central Powers, and they weren't.  Both agreed to allow the new countries carved out of the Ottoman Empire to develop on their own without interference, and they didn't do it. 




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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 4:17:45 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The United Nations (credit Byron) was set up on the basis of Churchill's Atlantic Charter. Good luck finding a copy of that being signed by the US either...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Origin_of_the_League_of_Nations.png


(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 4:20:33 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

You know what I mean Kittin.  The French and the British were absolute bastards after the First World War.  Both promised to be fair with the defeated Central Powers, and they weren't.  Both agreed to allow the new countries carved out of the Ottoman Empire to develop on their own without interference, and they didn't do it. 



The world was a mess then, and it remains so now, but at least we have some kind of international public forum to address international relations issue. Could be worse.

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/23/2008 6:00:59 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The United Nations (credit Byron) was set up on the basis of Churchill's Atlantic Charter. Good luck finding a copy of that being signed by the US either...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Origin_of_the_League_of_Nations.png





That's a lovely poster of Woodrow Wilson in the 1920s,  apparently around the time the US refused to ratify the Treaty of Versailles and refused to join the League...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

What does it have to do with either Byron's Childe Harold, or finding a US signed copy of the 1941 Atlantic Charter again?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Atlanticcharter2.gif


Has it occured to either you or kittin that merely cutting and pasting links isn't the point... they should actually support or refute something?

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/23/2008 6:03:39 PM >

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/24/2008 8:13:13 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Yeah the UN sure is totally fucked up... but it's better than the alternative.


Z.



Zensee, and what's the alternative, 60,000-100,000 highly paid desk jockeys in expensive suits have to actually find,....(gulp)....."jobs?"


I was thinking more like WW3. Seems GWB was thinking the same thing. Good thing the rest of the world has the UN.


Z.


Zensee, you're a funny guy!
The "U.N." can't even find $22-$24Billion that was stolen in their "Oil for Food" scam and you think they could actually "prevent" WW3?
And just how would they accomplish that?
They're not in that business anyway, their main "reason de etre" is to scam money from Western countries.
No-one listens to them anymore, how whould "they" prevent WW3?
Should I sleep well tonight knowing that, "the "U.N." is on the job" preventing WW3?

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/24/2008 8:27:28 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

The world was a mess then, and it remains so now, but at least we have some kind of international public forum to address international relations issue. Could be worse.

And what does the UN do about "international relations"?

What did the UN do to stop ethnic cleansing in Bosnia Hercegovina after the break up of Yugoslavia in the 90s?

What did the UN do to stop the genocide in Rwanda?

What has the UN done to stop the genocide in Darfur?

What did the UN do when Iran and Iraq were lobbing chemical weapons at each other?

A vibrant, vigorous, vital United Nations committed to peaceful resolution of international discord would be a wonderful thing.  What we have is an amoral, banal, corrupt United Nations committed to ponderous pontificating about problems where diplomats use international crises as a path to personal wealth and power.


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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/24/2008 8:42:21 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

A vibrant, vigorous, vital United Nations committed to peaceful resolution of international discord would be a wonderful thing.  What we have is an amoral, banal, corrupt United Nations committed to ponderous pontificating about problems where diplomats use international crises as a path to personal wealth and power.



See? We agree. There's room for improvement.

Still, I think America either pays its dues, or else fucks the hell out of it, and the world takes it from there. It's a little much to be a member of a club and to push past the bouncers without paying the entrance fee each time you want to have fun simply because you can.  

It makes me laugh when I hear bitching about the UN as if it existed outside of America's realm. America's hand is firmly in the cookie jar, and the United Nations are swarming with American staff  . I understand why: the place is full of career opportunities. I recommend it.

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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/24/2008 8:52:32 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Still, I think America either pays its dues, or else fucks the hell out of it, and the world takes it from there. It's a little much to be a member of a club and to push past the bouncers without paying the entrance fee each time you want to have fun simply because you can.

It's a little much for the club to demand my money and then tell me to my face what a mean low down scoundrel I am.

Call me an asshole all you like.  I don't care.  Don't ask me to pay for the privilege.


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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/24/2008 9:05:25 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		  Funny,I`ve never seen the elitist mediocrity step up an do or try to do any of the hard,ugly,dirty work that the UN does.

Never saw a conservative group step up and fight Malaria or the Gini worm in sub-Saharan Africa or step in between fighting factions.

Never heard of any water projects or "teach a man to fish"projects coming out of the Harriatige Foundation or PNAC. Oppps,they bolted the scene,the little rats.This is better.

Who would do the anti-poverty ,anti-starvation ,anti -disease works if the UN was gone?

How many more of the earth`s vulnerable will fall off the edge?

Does that matter?

<note:question not meant for neo-cons, it requires a level of empathy>


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RE: Another reason the UN is a joke - 6/24/2008 9:13:14 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Then why are you still in the club?

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