RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (Full Version)

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celticlord2112 -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 9:28:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Then why are you still in the club?

Because the political types in Washington haven't yet decided to pay attention to my demand that they tell the UN to pack up and leave New York on the next plane to Geneva (or to Hell, which ever leaves first).

The proper message the US should deliver to the UN?  I'd go with Oliver Cromwell's dismissal of the Long Parliament:

quote:

You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.



kittinSol -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 9:43:10 AM)

Geneva's a very pretty, elegant, cosmopolitan town. You'd love it there.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 9:51:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Geneva's a very pretty, elegant, cosmopolitan town. You'd love it there.

It's a fun place to visit.  Although I'm rather more partial to Florence and Milan, not to mention Naples.



Zensee -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 10:57:07 AM)

CelticLord - I think it's more like the USA should stop using the UN as it's errand boy / whipping boy. Any time it wants to pull a fast one it's got the world in its back yard to screw and any time it wants someone to take the fall (so you can have a single entity to point a finger at), why there's the UN just waiting.

If the member nations, especially the major ones, treated the UN honestly, it could do its job. But the major powers (and not just the USA) insist on using it as a tool for their momentary policies and extra-territorial ambitions. Being the most powerful democracy in the "club" the USA has a special duty of care and conduct. It is vital it is seen to uphold the central ideals of the UN and to set an example for lesser nations. This is the more humane, enduring and economical way to spread democracy, and not with depleted uranium munitions.

Popeye - while there is plenty of corruption and incompetence in the UN there are also many crucial programs which opperate economically and ethically. The UN is still our best hedge against WW3 and you have yet to offer any viable alternative, just distractive and unrelated arguments.



Z.



popeye1250 -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 11:28:24 AM)

Zensee, "alternative?"
God I hope not!
To be fair you're right, you really can't argue with me on this because I simply want out of the "U.N.".
If any person or company functioned like they do they'd be fired, bankrupt, out of business, in prison.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 11:39:13 AM)

quote:

I think it's more like the USA should stop using the UN as it's errand boy / whipping boy. Any time it wants to pull a fast one it's got the world in its back yard to screw and any time it wants someone to take the fall (so you can have a single entity to point a finger at), why there's the UN just waiting.

Care to put some meat on those bones?

I have pointed to failures in Bosnia, Rwanda, Darfur, and the Middle East--failures of inaction.

I shall clarify the argument.  I see the United Nations has having failed to live up to its charter, and too often allows its General Assembly to become a vague and vacuous forum for railing against the United States and other leading nations of the world.

For all the good the WHO has done combating malaria, other organs of the UN have undone by profiteering in the "Oil for food" program in pre-invasion Iraq.  It is not monolithically evil or unremittingly banal, but neither is it angelic.  There is more of sinner than of saint walking its halls.

You claim the poor beknighted UN is the whipping boy of major nations' foreign policy.  How so?



Owner59 -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 11:55:49 AM)

  What kind of person would criticize or fault a lifeguard for failure?

Especially while standing comfortably on a nice piece of dry ,safe land.



popeye1250 -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 2:57:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What kind of person would criticize or fault a lifeguard for failure?

Especially while standing comfortably on a nice piece of dry ,safe land.


Owner, was that supposed to be an analogy or a comparison?



celticlord2112 -> RE: Another reason the UN is a joke (6/24/2008 5:11:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What kind of person would criticize or fault a lifeguard for failure?

Especially while standing comfortably on a nice piece of dry ,safe land.

Bad analogy.  Especially in Rwanda.

Following your metaphor, the fault lies in the lifeguard's employer, who requires the lifeguard to get permission to swim out into the surf, then fails to give it and leaves the lifeguard helpless to watch people drown.

Or, applying it Bosnia, provides too few lifeguards while requiring some people to swim with lead weights around their ankles.

Or, in the case of Darfur, refuses to send in lifeguards at all unless people promise not to drown.

When it comes to "lifeguarding", the mantra of the UN is "too little, too late, oh well."



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