RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborhood to hell

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 7:25:24 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Interesting article, Rich.

As Mia and you pointed out, it's complicated....but the facts seem to bear out that dispersing the poor like that doesn't do anyone any good.

No, it doesn't. The article is claiming that dispersing poor people into the neighborhoods caused those poor people to commit more crimes than before, but only in small to mid size cities. Chicago tore down all of the big projects and used section 8 vouchers to do exactly what Memphis did but shockingly with no increase in violent crime rates.

This whole thing stinks of police ignoring crime in those old housing projects but not ignoring those same crimes in the neighborhoods.

I don't think that is being suggested at all, Ken. Plenty of attention is paid to the reduced crime rates in the denser urban areas. The article does mention that young males are more likely to be arrested for property crimes after moving out to the 'burbs, and on that you could be right. I doubt the police in the high-rises put much emphasis on graffiti.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 7:35:56 AM

DomKen

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The claims throughout the article are that violent crime rates in Memphis and in other medium to small cities rose dramatically after the tearing down of the projects and the wide spread implementation of the section 8 vouchers. Graffiti and other property crimes are not violent crimes.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 10:23:13 AM

Bethnai

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I also had a problem with her stats. She is using FBI stats and they only deal with arrests not convictions.

One of the problems that I have been encountering is lack of resources available in the community where I live. There is not one place to learn English. Not one for an adult. Further, we will experience a 20% increase in Spanish speaking people by 2020. Knowing this in advance, do you think anybody is going to do anything about it? Like take a look at places like California or Arizona who are already dealing with it? They are going to do nothing but stand around in a circle jerk and bitch about immigration. Even the primary and secondary education system, here, operates off the least you can do Lau v. Nichols. 2 months after a youth has started school they send out a little paper to ask if English is primary or secondary language. This isn't about liberal, it is recognizing that there is a problem and solving it. Hell, I lived in Key West, a 2X4 island, and there were 2 places to go to learn English.
One will pre-test before taking the classes to get a GED. If someone is too far below a reading level they won't take the person. Too much time and money. The big everybody read in the state program has nothing. Nothing. So, there is a waste of money going towards people who can already read, the right audience is not being targeted. The libraries did not have anything available. The university did not have anything available. Tutoring was geared towards minors and included in the curriculum for the education department.
This isn't even "the tip of the iceburg."

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 11:08:06 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

I also had a problem with her stats. She is using FBI stats and they only deal with arrests not convictions.

The UCR deals with "offenses known to law enforcement ", i.e. reported crimes, whether or not an arrest is made.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/table4.htm
While that is still an incomplete measure, it can indicate an increase.

Stats based only on convictions would be useless in discussing crime in neighborhoods, since so many factors influence that final outcome.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 11:54:37 AM

popeye1250

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I can tell you how to solve these problems but most people aren't going to like the answers.
And I doubt the people in our govt are willing to do the things that would solve this.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 12:00:27 PM

kittinSol

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Nothing like a nice little ghetto to keep the undesirables in their place. Build them walls nice and high.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 12:27:40 PM

Bethnai

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My bad.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 12:34:42 PM

slaveboyforyou

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You've never been to Memphis have you Kittin? Trust me, it's unbelievable how bad it is in some areas. I went to visit a friend up there in 2005, and I got off the wrong exit and got lost. I don't know where I was, but it wasn't a nice part of town. I swear to God this happened. It was a Friday night in August, and I was driving around trying to figure out how to get back on the interstate. I stopped at a red light. Across the intersection in a parking lot were several black guys arguing loudly about something. I had my window down, and I could make out that it was about money. They were only about 20 yards from me. You can figure out what happened next. I heard gunshots, saw all the guys scatter, and I hit the gas pedal and took off. I don't know what happened and I didn't stop to find out. I was scared shitless. I didn't even bother to call the police. I just drove back toward the center of town, and I didn't stop at any more lights unless there were other cars and people around.

The entire town is a mess, and it's a poor city. They don't have the funds to combat the problem like they should. I really don't know what they are going to do to solve it.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 12:49:15 PM

Alumbrado

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With a gang sign flashing mayor, untold millions just 'missing' from the budget, and 5 police chiefs in as many years, the crime problems in Memphis aren't solveable by more funding, or by Janakowski's TV solutions with flashing computer displays..

A school system (set up by the same mayor) where a significant percentage of the 'teachers' are working on waivers ( i.e. they don't have degrees or accreditation) up to and including retirement, doors locked, windows taped over, and outside monitors run off during mandatory school testing, 'doctors' with mail order degrees getting political appointments, unqualified political hacks being given huge pay raises to take over the library and other public service systems, a constant shell game with the utility company's profits, revolving door city council seats with price tags affixed, hatemongering demagogues using pulpits and podiums to rail against 'them'...

From the top down, the message has been sent of contempt for the law, and contempt for doing things the hard way, and too many people see their only recourse as violence and taking what they want.

Not everybody is buying that message of course...and those who don't are referred to by the first group as 'victims'.
Not surprisng that a victim mentality has built up as well.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/25/2008 12:54:37 PM >

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 12:55:46 PM

Bethnai

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macro-micro. I don't care what anyone says ........OG=1215 Magna Carta.

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RE: The road of good intentions, taking your neighborho... - 6/25/2008 8:16:23 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Nothing like a nice little ghetto to keep the undesirables in their place. Build them walls nice and high.

         Your proposal only works if the inhabitants are stripped of the means of resistance, and starved as slave labor, and even then, is only a temporary solution. I wouldn't have thought you had it in you.

          As things are, this culture grew up in ghettos.



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