RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-worth/depression issues?

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RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/24/2008 11:53:20 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
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you can not be happy and depressed at the same time...you are one or the other. yes i think depression is the opposite of happiness. if it isnt, then what is the opposite of depression???

if you are not happy...chances are you do not like your life or a certain situation you may be in but cant get out of. in turn this causes mood swings, anger, bitterness, isolation, hatred from family and friends and co-workers. all signs of depression.

many people resort to drinking or drugs. which in turn makes things worse than they are. other people seek help with a psych and medication.

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RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/24/2008 11:59:05 AM

fluffyswitch

Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline

you can still feel happiness while being depressed-- it's not switched off entirely. it depends on what type and to what extent your depression manifests. He knows that i'm clinically depressed (among with a couple of other things thrown in for good measure), and knows that every day is a crap shoot. we work with it and i spend many days happy. does that make my diagnosis null and void? no not really because i can backtrack at any time-- there have been nights that i've thought that it's all hopeless (but that's an area i would prefer not to talk about). i think it's a matter of knowing the individual and knowing what form of depression their's takes, and working with it the same as you do any other relationship issue.

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Post #: 22

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/24/2008 12:46:11 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

It could be that, with the proper counseling -- or help from a positive Dominant person in their life -- they could overcome these issues and no longer need such a submissive existence.

It could be that, with the proper counseling -- or help from a positive Dominant person in their life -- they could overcome these issues and no longer need such a submissive existence.

I believe that's possible (but not necessarily from a BDSM context), given the high amount of E.Q. emotional intelligence from a particular Dom and that he cared about his sub enough...and the sub having to trust the Dom a lot more and be exposed more than a regular vanilla relationship...this could actually work. I think that's a VERY small percentage of all the BDSM'ers out there where a great majority is just out for play and sport and shouldn't venture near a sub that isn't ready...let alone consider using BDSM as a tool for solving the problems. My feeling is that it can either work out quite well or become a major disaster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

it is not the job of a Dom/me to fix a submissive. In fact, i would question their sanity if they tried.
If there are mental/emotional issues with the submissive they should not venture into a new relationship until they are more stable.

I never understood why some Doms rush subs into relationships no matter how bad the sub's mental state. And then blame the sub afterwards *LMFAO* (despite having known her mental state all along). tsk tsk So they expect (given his more normal mental state) themselves to be free to make all the most ridiculous requests and the sub (given her lesser mental state) to sift through all the Dom's garbage requests and clearly state what she wants (when the best thing for her is to not deal with all that garbage for now). Sounds like the Doms are trying to cop out of their responsibility of self-control and using good sound judgement.

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(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 23

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/24/2008 10:30:52 PM

firefey

Posts: 144
Joined: 1/25/2005
Status: offline

there is a difference between run of the mill self-esteam issues and total lack of self worth. one i'm willing to put in some effort with, the other needs more than i can give. and that's what it comes down to; what i can and cannot give. i can give positive reenforcement. i cannot give medication or serious psychological work. i can be supportive while my friend/lover/partner/submissive works through their issues. i cannot do the work for them.

in my household, my partner and co-dom has depression, ptds and issues stemming from an abusive childhood. most of these he has dealt with on his own and my only contribution is to encourage him to continue. i am there for him, and i hold his hand when he needs it. but i cannot drag him kicking, screaming or drugged into the help he may or may not need.

my pet has complacency issues and yes, a hand full of self worth skeletons. they do not comprise the whole of his encounters with me. i see them as something to be worked on, and improved, in the context of certain relationships. but there again it is not my job to make him be more assertive or to make him feel better about the way he relates to people in his life. i controll the relationship he and i have. beyond that, he is not doing himself harm and so i have no say. yet...

would i take on someone with deeper issues? not full time. not to the extent of adding them to my household. it's too much time spent on one person for that to fit into the life i have and the household i am building. but i have seen dominants use a d/s or m/s dynamic to cause positive changes in their sub/slaves mental health. but it's usually in the form of making them go to their therapy meetings and making them take their meds as directed by their doctor. in the end, i think that's all that any dom/me should do or be expected to do. baring a degree in the required medical field.

(in reply to chickpea)

Post #: 24

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/24/2008 10:41:31 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Thanks for the thread and all the wonderful thoughtful answers....as one who considers himself damaged ,but under repair the perception and empathy exhibited by most of the responses made my evening

(in reply to firefey)

Post #: 25

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/24/2008 11:06:58 PM

kessbm45lilgirl

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline

depression is according to the threapist I have bought some very nice homes for is anger turned inward. I do not know if I would regonize happy if I ever feel it, as I am just learning how to feel again. I know contentment, have learned love, and acceptance of myself. I have let go fo the anger at my parents and on some levels have forgiven them. I think for me being a submissive is the core me , and geting to her meant I had to learn to love me. so my tank where I keep my self esteem is slowly filling up, I faced my fears and their causes. I can now walk away from people and things that are not good for me. Every day I get stronger. I still struggle with depresion, and other things but I am developing a middle and a shield that protects me. When that does not work Kill Bill one and two and some old Betty Davis movies and other classics I love curled up in my bed with my teddy bears and I am good as new the next day.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 26

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/25/2008 10:30:25 AM

ricar00

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/11/2006
Status: offline

I am impressed with this group who answered this question. When i saw the question one of my first thoughts would be that dommes would immediately reject or look at depression as a automatic NADA for a potential sub.

How wrong and how pleased i was and how hopeful i am, since i have to deal with my own depression, issues of self-worth, etc, but am working hard on it.

Thank you for the uplift.

ricar00

(in reply to kessbm45lilgirl)

Post #: 27

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 6/25/2008 1:38:12 PM

DelilahDeb

Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline

I've lived clinical depression (side effect of a stroke, doc said "zero serotonin levels"). And I've been on a mild-to-moderate level of anti-depressants for 6 years now. I know, also, what some of my triggers are (daylight or lack thereof, for one). And I'm honest with myself about my feelings as I discover them (whether or not I share those discoveries with anyone else).

My instinct is to help or give advice or answers or "fix things"; and the hardest part of helping is the simple fact that all too often, the fix has to start within the person needing help. So, what I think of a sub with a problem with depression? I think s/he's human. Now the question of whether s/he has begun to identify, understand, or deal with the nature or nurture issues that may have put them into a depressed state? That's the part I'd look at.

For so many matters, the Pythagorean axiom remains crucial: "Know thyself."

Lady Delilah Deb

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(in reply to charlotteS)

Post #: 28

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/12/2008 11:41:41 AM

standardG

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/21/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

depression is everywhere.... how many people out of 10 are actually happy?? 1? 2? and half of those are acting happy....

depression is a sympton that many are not even officially diagnosed with. nor will they admit that they have it nor will they take action against it.

a show i saw on discovery said that denmark is the happiest country in the world. but when you look at the people they are not even smiling. they say this because it is an easy place to live with little crime. doors are left open at night and you dont have to look over your shoulder. the gov't takes care of everything for them right up until they are finished university. yes paid schooling. but then when they work..50% taxes. i say...how can u be happy paying 50% to taxes??? cost of living is lower there.

lets all move to denmark....not smile one bit...and claim we are happy...

"Bhutan is one of the most isolated and least developed nations in the world.[2] Foreign influences and tourism are regulated by the government to preserve the nation's traditional culture, identity and the environment. In 2006, however, Business Week rated Bhutan the happiest country in Asia and the eighth happiest country in the world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan

No 50% taxes in that little piece of happy-happy-joy-joy land...

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 29

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/12/2008 11:52:05 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I can love, support, encourage and be there for someone who is struggling, but I cannot fix anything. I used to be able to walk through the path, 24/7 if need be, but now, I can't. I don't have the energy, the patience or the health to handle the stress of mis- communication or whatever might come about. My own brain damage is in the area of personality and emotion or anger and I do fairly well in being able to control myself, but if challenged too much, I will be angry and then there goes whatever good I could have done. I can't take on the challenges of it all anymore, as much as my heart would love to, my brain won't let me. The most I can do is be an encouraging friend now, not a partner.

(in reply to standardG)

Post #: 30

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/12/2008 5:44:21 PM

MistressPav

Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

As a Dom[me], do you think you could be with someone who was dealing with such issues in their personal life? It could be that they find meaning through service, or fail to see themselves worthy of being a DOM (or even an equal) because of such emotional disorders. It could be that, with the proper counseling -- or help from a positive Dominant person in their life -- they could overcome these issues and no longer need such a submissive existence. I'm a nurture over nature guy, who doesn't feel anyone has an innate disposition, so I think this could be a very real possibility. (Everyone has a tendency to chance, grow, especially with time and experience).

How would you handle such a situation?

(Sorry for asking so many questions. I just like to hear what other people have to say. This issues hits particularly close to home, however)

Personally, I feel that it's one of my roles as a Domina to teach my sub their self worth. To first tear them down and then build them into
something to be proud of. Being a Submissive is a VERY important and respectable role and I would do all in my power to help my sub
through the difficult times. After all, where would a Domina find a perfect-problem-free submissive?

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Claimed & Collared 9magick#2008

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A- Rh-

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 31

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/13/2008 8:10:02 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

Mistress Pav. I have to disagree with what you said. How is tearing a person down helping them with their issues. They will just bury them deeper. What your doing is brain washing plain and simple. They would only end up being problem free to you in your mind.

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Post #: 32

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/13/2008 7:44:18 PM

MistressPav

Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Mistress Pav. I have to disagree with what you said. How is tearing a person down helping them with their issues. They will just bury them deeper. What your doing is brain washing plain and simple. They would only end up being problem free to you in your mind.

The generation gap is obvious.....

_____________________________

Proud Owner of Zubi
(my boy "ToyZ")
Claimed & Collared 9magick#2008

"An it harm none, unless they deserve it, do what ye will." --Scorpio Creed

A- Rh-

(in reply to Dnomyar)

Post #: 33

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/13/2008 9:33:56 PM

jim64

Posts: 86
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

lets all move to denmark....not smile one bit...and claim we are happy...

I would love to move somewhere else. But, Denmark? I hear people are much happier in Sweden. Until then, I will stay right here. Smile at everyone and say I'm happy as a dead person.

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 34

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/13/2008 10:41:35 PM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

This brings to mind LA's sig. line.

Certainly applies to this situation.

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Post #: 35

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/13/2008 10:50:20 PM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

i think that the number of people who submit because they truly feel they're not worthy of an equal relationship is relatively small (and generally avoided by Dominants).

I agree. If I get an email from a sub and the first thing he says is "I am not worthy of you, I am the dirt under your shoe", I delete. If they feel they are not worthy of me, then they have in a sense attempted to take control right off the bat. *I* am the one who will decide if someone is worthy of me, not the sub emailing me. If they feel that they are not worth anything, why would I want them? I want people around me who are positive and comfortable with themselves, not someone who sits around thinking that they are worthless. Raven once wrote something about this very topic and I wish that I could remember what he said because it was perfect for this thread. Basically, I am trying to say what he had said. I agreed completely then and still do today.

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RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/18/2008 1:23:39 AM

SmartQuietMan

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
As a Dom[me], do you think you could be with someone who was dealing with such issues in their personal life? It could be that they find meaning through service, or fail to see themselves worthy of being a DOM (or even an equal) because of such emotional disorders. It could be that, with the proper counseling -- or help from a positive Dominant person in their life -- they could overcome these issues and no longer need such a submissive existence. I'm a nurture over nature guy, who doesn't feel anyone has an innate disposition, so I think this could be a very real possibility. (Everyone has a tendency to chance, grow, especially with time and experience).

Hi. I'm not a Domme (obviously) but I do see something here I'd like to comment on. I hope no one minds about that.

This seems to treat submission as the result of the person having some sort of mental problem. It then seems to pretty clearly imply that if this problem was resolved the need to be submissive could be cured.

Having a submissive nature does not, in any way, indicate that there is anything wrong with that individual. I know some well adjusted, mentally stable submissives. I also know some off the wall Doms who have clinical mental disorders. Dom vs sub does not result from mental health problems.

Further, admitedly I may be nitpicking on this one, the matter of not being worthy to be a Dom would seem to imply that submissives are not worthy. Once again, being sub vs dom is not a matter of self worth or value. Both sides are very challenging to do well. I know some incredibly strong submissives who have high self esteem. I don't know many dominants that think little of themselves though (but they do exist). This reminds me of a stigma I sometimes see, particuarly with newer people. Some people insist they are dominants becuase they believe submissives are seen as week and inferior. Since they don't want to be seen as week and inferior they must be dominants and so that's how they self identify. I've come accross this many times and once they have been in the public community for awhile and stop seeing submissives as lessor they usually flip. Likewise there are some submissives who feel they should be dominants, but don't feel capable or wrothy. If you're sort of forcing yourself into a submissive role due to this it probably won't fit too well. Round hole, square peg. Though you might find yourself to be a switch.

D/s is not a mental disorder or the results of one. Its simply an inate feeling / calling some people have within themselves. They feel more comfortable / happy / free when paired up in a D/s dynamic. Personally, I'm mentally stable and healthy with high self esteem and yet find it very freeing to give up control to someone else. The first time I was truly submissive I suddenly had this feeling as if the weight had been removed from my shoulders, it was a very calming and freeing sensation. Odd, but true.

I hope this helps.

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 37

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/18/2008 1:39:49 AM

SmartQuietMan

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav
Personally, I feel that it's one of my roles as a Domina to teach my sub their self worth. To first tear them down and then build them into
something to be proud of. Being a Submissive is a VERY important and respectable role and I would do all in my power to help my sub
through the difficult times.

Thank you so very much for expressing that. All too often I see submissives being put down or treated/referred to as if they were inferior. Particularly male subs dealing with female dominants. Positive statements like yours don't get made often enough.

Too bad you're far away in Seattle and like young boys. ;) The Wet Spot rocks, The Grind was a blast. I heard they moved, changed owners or something though.

(in reply to MistressPav)

Post #: 38

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/19/2008 9:37:12 PM

badboy6385

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline

i had a problem with depression for a long time and then i finally found out in therapy that i was transgender and didn't know it.
I had repressed my needs as a teenager, I was interested in bdsm for a long time before i realized this. Sometimes interest in bdsm
is a clue to a deeper sexual need beneath. I have been depression free for a number of years now, I have occasional down periods
but they are rare compared to before. i hope this helps someone suffer now

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 39

RE: What do you think of subs with self-image/self-wort... - 8/20/2008 12:56:54 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

quote:

Personally, I feel that it's one of my roles as a Domina to teach my sub their self worth. To first tear them down and then build them into
something to be proud of. Being a Submissive is a VERY important and respectable role and I would do all in my power to help my sub
through the difficult times. After all, where would a Domina find a perfect-problem-free submissive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Mistress Pav. I have to disagree with what you said. How is tearing a person down helping them with their issues. They will just bury them deeper. What your doing is brain washing plain and simple. They would only end up being problem free to you in your mind.

The generation gap is obvious.....

Mistress Pav,
Your reply to Dnomyar doesn't appear to me to have addressed his question. I truly don't see how tearing down a person would seem to be a healthy place for someone not exceptionally trained in psychiatry to go.

I can fully understand the need to get to the root of the issues that might be affecting a person's self-esteem. I can also relate to helping them view them differently or assisting them in changing their thought patterns to view things in a more positive manner via a cognitive therapy approach (the work behind the book Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy comes to mind).

That said, it seems to me that I clearly must be missing something. While he may have labeled what he thought you were describing, it didn't sound to me as though Dnomyar was talking as though he was coming from a Freudian approach. As such, asking for a further explanation of your comments would only seem reasonable to me. Would you please enlighten us?

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to MistressPav)

Post #: 40

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