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RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 7:16:30 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Fast reply - last time I checked, we were in the XXIst Century, how time flies! It's time to drop the idea that religion should have anything to do with public policy and elected officials and to leave beliefs where they belong: outside of the public realm.

It's incredible that people are still arguing over passages in the Bible and the New Testament, but hey, whatever rocks your boat... simply, I suggest that these books have no part to play in anything other that for those that believe in them.

After all, religion intervening in pubic affairs is precisely the reason why Islam and many Muslim countries are seen with such a high degree of suspicion.

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Post #: 81

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 7:29:48 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Jesus' most direct response to the "Which laws are important" can be found in Matthew 22:35,40, or with a different view, same message Mark 12:28,31. The authority to accept this word, and Jesus authority to make such proclamations can be found in John 5:22,23. Yes, Jesus was indeed a rebel, who seemed to try and cut through the crap in an effort to stay on message.

Yet he kept Passover and kosher. If you examine John in detail, the only gospel not written by Greeks for Greek audiences, you will find a strict adherence to Mosaic law by both Jesus and the apostles.

Fundamentally why did the Council of Carthage and the other various councils and individuals that compiled the christian bible not throw out Leviticus? They ceertainly were willing to remove other books and parts of books of the Jewish tradition.

I will also point out that several major and minor protestant sects do not accept the view that the passages you cite are meant to allow christians to ignore the OT laws.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 82

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 7:40:29 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

You already have the answer you desire. I have already given you the answer you deserve.

Move along, little one. You are done here.

_____________________________

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 83

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 7:43:13 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

You already have the answer you desire. I have already given you the answer you deserve.

Move along, little one. You are done here.

Stop prevaricating and pretending outrage. Put up or shut up. Does your uncle obey all the OT laws as you so boldly claimed or not and if not was the mistatement yours or his?

Lokk man this is real simple, admit that you were wrong take the lumps you've got coming and I'll drop this other wise you'll be dealing with this from me from now on.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/25/2008 7:44:23 AM >

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 84

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 8:02:35 AM

ModeratorEleven

Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline

Settle down folks.

XI

_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 85

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 9:13:36 AM

MistressNew

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline

This discussion, I think, is a good example of why we need to keep religion and government completely separate. Each one corrupts the other

(in reply to ModeratorEleven)

Post #: 86

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 11:10:02 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

True that! Here`s more reasons to keep religion and government separate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOZbdKLY3Lk

How about these two groups of religious nutters.

They get their inspiration from scriptures,so it muz be twue....lol

"we are the mouth of god,we are the prophets of god,the words that we say are not our own words,they are god`s words."

And what about the Book of Mormon.Don`t they say they are god`s chosen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q5gS2uAOSU&feature=related

Look,two young copies of Mitt Romney on bikes.....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/25/2008 11:19:56 AM >

(in reply to MistressNew)

Post #: 87

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 11:41:45 AM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Fast reply - last time I checked, we were in the XXIst Century, how time flies! It's time to drop the idea that religion should have anything to do with public policy and elected officials and to leave beliefs where they belong: outside of the public realm.

It's incredible that people are still arguing over passages in the Bible and the New Testament, but hey, whatever rocks your boat... simply, I suggest that these books have no part to play in anything other that for those that believe in them.

After all, religion intervening in pubic affairs is precisely the reason why Islam and many Muslim countries are seen with such a high degree of suspicion.

Try talking to Mr. Obama, he is the one who seems confused as to which branch or dogma he is supposed to use to base his ethics and morality on.
i presume, and actually hope, that he has some basis on which to base his morality and choices. it would make more sense than having him tailor his morality to expand his voter base.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 88

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 11:50:55 AM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Your anger answers your question.

I will thank you, however, for you have answered a question that has troubled me for quite some time.

Nice try but you made a extraordinary claim so I want the extraordinary evidence. You can prevaricate and pretend outrage all you want butyou made the claim so its put or shut up time. Does your uncle obey every one of the 600+ laws of the Mosaic code contained in the OT or not?

i thought your candidate put family attacks off limits, or is that only against his family. Now that is hypocritical.

Well, I'll accept the hypocrisy charge if you can show me why DomKen, or any other human, for that matter, is bound by anything any presidential candidate promises.

CHIRP! CHIRP! Them crickets is loud, doncha know.

i agree, and get your point. each one of us has an individual right to be an (do i really want to go there....)

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 89

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 11:57:40 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

I think the dominionist's outrage over his expression of his beliefs is pretty much proof that Obama isn't pandering to expand his voter base that far.

It does seem likely that he wants to appear aligned with religious voters who aren't on the extreme right.

It looks like he chose his words wisely in terms of which group he wants to appeal to.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 90

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 11:59:51 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Fast reply - last time I checked, we were in the XXIst Century, how time flies! It's time to drop the idea that religion should have anything to do with public policy and elected officials and to leave beliefs where they belong: outside of the public realm.

It's incredible that people are still arguing over passages in the Bible and the New Testament, but hey, whatever rocks your boat... simply, I suggest that these books have no part to play in anything other that for those that believe in them.

After all, religion intervening in pubic affairs is precisely the reason why Islam and many Muslim countries are seen with such a high degree of suspicion.

Try talking to Mr. Obama, he is the one who seems confused as to which branch or dogma he is supposed to use to base his ethics and morality on.
i presume, and actually hope, that he has some basis on which to base his morality and choices. it would make more sense than having him tailor his morality to expand his voter base.

And what is he confused about?

Specifically.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All he said was there are to many religions,even to many forms of just the Christian religion(s) to have any one one them and it`s canons influencing government and the laws we all live under.

What did Mr Obama say that was wrong?

What dogma is he imposing on us?

If it`s the "dogma" of live and let live,I can live with that.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 91

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 12:04:10 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
i agree, and get your point. each one of us has an individual right to be an (do i really want to go there....)

So you think it was wrong of me to call someone on a claim that anyone who gave it a seconds consideration knew was BS. Why? This isn't rhetorical, why, precisely, should I let an obvious false claim stand unchallenged?

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 92

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 12:20:44 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Jesus' most direct response to the "Which laws are important" can be found in Matthew 22:35,40, or with a different view, same message Mark 12:28,31. The authority to accept this word, and Jesus authority to make such proclamations can be found in John 5:22,23. Yes, Jesus was indeed a rebel, who seemed to try and cut through the crap in an effort to stay on message.

Yet he kept Passover and kosher. If you examine John in detail, the only gospel not written by Greeks for Greek audiences, you will find a strict adherence to Mosaic law by both Jesus and the apostles.

Fundamentally why did the Council of Carthage and the other various councils and individuals that compiled the christian bible not throw out Leviticus? They ceertainly were willing to remove other books and parts of books of the Jewish tradition.

I will also point out that several major and minor protestant sects do not accept the view that the passages you cite are meant to allow christians to ignore the OT laws.

One night, over a case of beer, someone presented the theory that the "Virgin birth of Jesus" could be a great excuse for explaining an unexpected, out of wedlock pregnancy. Left to people's interpretations, there are all sorts of interpretations. John 5:22, 23 seems to have passed the Mantel from the Father to the Son.
To keep my parents at peace, i attend church on sunday, and receive communion. i am, however, divorced, and claim outside of my home to be a solipsist, which actually allows everyone to be right. go figure.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 93

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 12:43:12 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
i agree, and get your point. each one of us has an individual right to be an (do i really want to go there....)

So you think it was wrong of me to call someone on a claim that anyone who gave it a seconds consideration knew was BS. Why? This isn't rhetorical, why, precisely, should I let an obvious false claim stand unchallenged?

There are ways of dicussing and challenging without being abusive. You may or may not be right on point. in my opinion, if someone is rude in presenation, it detracts from the message, and makes it more difficult not to be dismissive of both the message and the messenger.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 94

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 1:16:45 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Fast reply - last time I checked, we were in the XXIst Century, how time flies! It's time to drop the idea that religion should have anything to do with public policy and elected officials and to leave beliefs where they belong: outside of the public realm.

It's incredible that people are still arguing over passages in the Bible and the New Testament, but hey, whatever rocks your boat... simply, I suggest that these books have no part to play in anything other that for those that believe in them.

After all, religion intervening in pubic affairs is precisely the reason why Islam and many Muslim countries are seen with such a high degree of suspicion.

Try talking to Mr. Obama, he is the one who seems confused as to which branch or dogma he is supposed to use to base his ethics and morality on.
i presume, and actually hope, that he has some basis on which to base his morality and choices. it would make more sense than having him tailor his morality to expand his voter base.

And what is he confused about?

Specifically.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All he said was there are to many religions,even to many forms of just the Christian religion(s) to have any one one them and it`s canons influencing government and the laws we all live under.

What did Mr Obama say that was wrong?

What dogma is he imposing on us?

If it`s the "dogma" of live and let live,I can live with that.

Confusion:
quote:

And even if we did have only Christians in our midst,
   Unfounded premise
if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America,
     ACLU field day
whose Christianity would we teach in the schools?
      i thought this was already against the rules.
Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy?
       Again, unfounded premise, already against the rules
         Non sequitir passages deleted.
So before we get carried away
      Too late
let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles.
        Unfounded Premise.
*******************************
     Dogma proposed:
Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values.
       Concern: the thought of translating concerns into universal terms smacks of Orwellian Newspeak, and is a pretty scary thought to hear from someone who has already attempted to redefine "person".

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 95

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 1:26:21 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
i agree, and get your point. each one of us has an individual right to be an (do i really want to go there....)

So you think it was wrong of me to call someone on a claim that anyone who gave it a seconds consideration knew was BS. Why? This isn't rhetorical, why, precisely, should I let an obvious false claim stand unchallenged?

There are ways of dicussing and challenging without being abusive. You may or may not be right on point. in my opinion, if someone is rude in presenation, it detracts from the message, and makes it more difficult not to be dismissive of both the message and the messenger.

What I find amusing is I've never seen you complain about the right wingers being rude and abusive but I post a fairly mild hit on one of the rudest folks on CM and you feel the need to chastise me.

I'm eagerly awaiting your telling off of popeye, sanity, and celticknight the next time they start taking potshots but something tells me it will be a long long wait.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 96

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 1:53:47 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
i agree, and get your point. each one of us has an individual right to be an (do i really want to go there....)

So you think it was wrong of me to call someone on a claim that anyone who gave it a seconds consideration knew was BS. Why? This isn't rhetorical, why, precisely, should I let an obvious false claim stand unchallenged?

There are ways of dicussing and challenging without being abusive. You may or may not be right on point. in my opinion, if someone is rude in presenation, it detracts from the message, and makes it more difficult not to be dismissive of both the message and the messenger.

What I find amusing is I've never seen you complain about the right wingers being rude and abusive but I post a fairly mild hit on one of the rudest folks on CM and you feel the need to chastise me.

I'm eagerly awaiting your telling off of popeye, sanity, and celticknight the next time they start taking potshots but something tells me it will be a long long wait.

You are probably right about that. if you carefully read the wording of my post, that little parenthetical is usually where i choose not to post. In most cases, if i get offended, i choose not to post at all. i hate to admit that i was interested in your responses, although i did have to fight through to see if You had a point. With those you mentioned, i usually am aware of what they will say and it is often in tune with the thread. although, sometimes i choose to ignore it, due to presentation.
You have shown an occasional disconnect between your head and your 4 quarter contact. If that is a trick, or something that i have misinterpreted i apologize.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 97

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 2:09:27 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

My opinion is that the main stream churches and synagogues, Catholic, Protestant, Greek Orthodox, etc, are more likely to live by example and good works.

The extremists that pass judgement on everyone and everything and spout fire and brimstone make themselves look bad.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 98

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 3:41:29 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

I think at this point, it's relevant to invoke the example of Gaius Baltar's ministry and message.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 99

RE: James Dobson to blast Obama - 6/25/2008 10:02:32 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Do tell now, FB.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 100

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