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RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/24/2008 9:39:09 PM

hallieB

Posts: 63
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline

Thanks to everyone who replyed. It has been very helpful to me to read through your suggestions. In the coming days before I see my Master again, I will have plenty of time to think about what you have brought to my attention. I am sure it will all be very helpful. Thanks again.....

(in reply to hallieB)

Post #: 21

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/24/2008 10:46:51 PM

tigerseye

Posts: 79
Joined: 1/10/2008
Status: offline

as odd as this is going to sound, think about when you were a child, and were punished by your parents. the punishment should fit the offense. for example, when i push my Master to the limit with my smart arse mouth, he looks at me with this look in his eye and says "blanket". i'm not to move, or talk until he says ok....believe me that is such a horrible punishment for me, and he knows that. punishments don't always have to be physical, the ones that leave the biggest "mark" on me are the verbal and psychological.

_____________________________

~rose~

(in reply to hallieB)

Post #: 22

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 1:41:40 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hallieB

I have been in this lifestyle for a very short time. My Master has been very patient with me. I seem to be struggling on some issues and keep making the same mistakes and I believe discipline is about to come into our relationship. I would like some feed back on how I am expected to handle punishment. How do I keep from pouting or getting angry with him when he disciplines me?

Humility.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to hallieB)

Post #: 23

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 7:30:19 AM

tandm

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline

As a sub or slave punishment WILL come to you whe you break the rules. You wanted to be in this D/s relationship, so deal with it. If you do not want to be punished, you do not really want to have this kind of relationship, you may be more interested in kinky sex.
My Master uses punishment whenever he wishes, in whatever method he wishes. The punishment is to help me remember not to do it EVER again (and the punishments really do work). After a punishment, you need to thank your Master. If you feel upset, that is fine but it should not be because you were punished, but because you made your Master use a punishment on you (jmo). I hate punishments simply because it signifys that I disobeyed my Master and he had to do extra work to correct my actions, actions that I could and should have avoided.

(in reply to hallieB)

Post #: 24

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 7:44:08 AM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

sometimes 'mistakes' arent' mistakes but in fact are an inherit part of our nature that will never change; it's good to know the difference so we know if who we are with is where we really belong.

(in reply to hallieB)

Post #: 25

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 9:21:59 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissEnchanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: hallieB

I have been in this lifestyle for a very short time. My Master has been very patient with me. I seem to be struggling on some issues and keep making the same mistakes and I believe discipline is about to come into our relationship. I would like some feed back on how I am expected to handle punishment. How do I keep from pouting or getting angry with him when he disciplines me?

Another thing to be aware of here: Some 'mistakes' are inherent in your nature. If you were more specific about exactly what the mistakes are: I could answer more fully.

I have a sub with PTSD. That means he will be forgetful or dither.

We cannot 'cure' that with anything. It just is. We work around those things.

For instance: If the repeated mistakes are related to a serious trigger: fine tune and get very specific about how to handle it. Working together and talking things through as you go is what makes it fly.

What are your 'repeated' mistakes?

If they are just bad habits, good habits can take time to train in.
If they are 'too much information/instructions/orders in too short a time period to absorb and obey: move more slowly and take one thing at a time.

If you have the attitude of serving and are serving someone who is 'right' for you things will smooth out.

If your Dom is really there for you he will talk these things through with you, and help you get them sorted out.

If you feel you are being improperly punished, speak up.

You may pout or feel angry. Sometimes you feel that way. It is what you DO when you feel those things that are important. If you decide to grow and learn, it's all good.

It is early and I am on my first cuppa coffee, so I may have missed something obvious here. <wink>

Many people have rightly complimented Beth for her post but this one is fantastic too.

I see much of what passes for punishment as "I want you shorter and until you get shorter I am going to punish you for being tall"

You can't beat someone, nor can you punish someone into what we mean when we say submission. You have to lead them, you have to understand why they are not doing something and fix it. Most punishment is directed at symptoms, not root causes. If slave X can't remember how to do a six peiece place setting, is that because she is willfully disobeying or something else. Think about that, if she is willful, sometimes beating will show her who is boss but then again, it doesn't "fix" her deeper need which is to see you as "boss". Do you really want someone who needs you to punish her constantly so she gets her "boss" fix? I have better things to do with my time. I would rather work with her to look for what drives her to see punishment as the sole signn of being the boss. I would rather work together to find a more positive way for her to see me as "boss" so that our time together is spent doing good things. Because as Merc says "I don't need permision or a reason to spank her"!

(in reply to MissEnchanted)

Post #: 26

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 6:23:28 PM

Drifa

Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
Status: offline

Heck, I *love* being spanked. That's fun. It's the reward!

Punishment, however, usually consists of hearing that terrible cold tone in My Lady's voice as she says "I am so disappointed in you." Then having her withdraw from me. This makes the point for me better than a thousand hours of corner time or whatever "punishment" anyone could come up with.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 27

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 6:49:33 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

OK, this is a really simple answer. You've, in fact, already said it properly. Think of it like this... the submission goals that you are currently not succeeding at. Who's goals are those? Yours or his? If they are his goals, then you need to stop and reconsider what you're doing entirely. One does not submit in order to meet someone else's goals. If you don't have your own goals around submission, then you need to stop and ask yourself why you're doing all this? Submission is not, in and of itself, a goal. If it was, you wouldn't read all the stories about bad doms since, after all, the sub got to submit so it all must've been fine, right?

Once you have taken control of your own submission by owning it as your own choice to reach your own goals, then you need to relook at punishment. Punishmnet is not some random expression of anger on the part of your dom so he can vent. It is a training device... one which will help you to reach YOUR OWN goals if used properly. Seen like this, punishment is a service your dom provides you to help you... not some negative thing he does to you because he's angry. A very experienced and very stern Dom once snapped it all into focus for me with this simple statement... "9 times out of 10, when I am punishing my slave, she asked for the punishment, not me."

If you haven't reached that level in your own power exchange dynamic, then it would be wise to reconsider whether punishment is appropriate at this stage. Remember, punishment is only appropriate if it forwards the training goal of the relationship. And punishment that cannot be interpretred properly by both dom and sub as a loving gesture designed to help the relationship move forward seems to me to be more destructive than constructive. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that "We must not be real if Master hasn't punished me with some sort of corporal punishment." There's no eagle scout badge given for getting or giving corporal punishment.

In the end, it ALL comes down to what forwards the goals of the relationship. If being punished does not do that right now, then it's the wrong move. Keep your eyes on the ball.

Great insights and an incredibly astute post. I bristle at the automoton answer of "Because he/she said so," as if there's no pay off for the bottom. There's always a pay off somewhere; I think we get in trouble when we haven't done enough introspection to own up to the fact that our behavior is driving an outcome that directly benefits us.

He doesn't employ corporal punishment. He knows I'm a pain slut, and feels that corporal punishment is counter productive to modifying undesireable behaviors. He makes me write about it, and do the personal introspection and write behavior plans. We discuss my shortcomings for what they are, and their negative impact. He tries to jettison emotion from the situation and deal with things in as neutral and rational a setting as possible. By doing this, it leaves me very little room for manipulation, and helps me focus on the issues at hand.

I think it's critical, not just as a submissive but as a happy, healthy adult, to understand how and why I tick the way I do.

PL

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 28

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 7:03:55 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

How do I keep from pouting or getting angry with him when he disciplines me?

appreciate it.

Master comes from the perspective that if it gets to the point where punishment is necessary, we have BOTH failed. We discuss it, punishment is administered, this slave thanks Him for it, and it is over. we both move on---it is NOT a hot, enjoyable scene.

this slave is grateful for correction and takes it in the spirit for which it is intended, to correct unwanted behavior(s), which therefore makes her a better slave for Master and a better partner in our relationship.

for this slave, getting angry or pouting about it would be counter-productive, and not what she signed up for.

absolutely agree ... 100%

I would also add, the bit underlined is crucial. If you have been actually given every opportunity to succeed, if your Dom has sat down with you and explained what he wants and how you are to do it, and you have not listened, or not been attentive or not paid attention - then that is one thing. If his expectations have not been make crystal clear to you, and he has not given you the equipment to succeed, then no amount of punishment is going to "cure" the behaviour.

Everything you both said

. I hate to just "ditto" but sometimes that's all I can do. You both summed it up perfectly. Punishment is not something either of us ever want to happen. We hope to work things out the right way before behaviour ever gets to a point where punishment is needed. It's a failure on both of our parts if it does...............luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 6/25/2008 7:04:26 PM >

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(in reply to softness)

Post #: 29

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 7:14:08 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

It's up to him to make sure that you take your punishment with the right frame of mind. But you can help. You seem to believe that you deserve the punishment you're about to get. So why not get on your knees after he is done, bring your head down low, and thank him?

quote:

ORIGINAL: hallieB

I have been in this lifestyle for a very short time. My Master has been very patient with me. I seem to be struggling on some issues and keep making the same mistakes and I believe discipline is about to come into our relationship. I would like some feed back on how I am expected to handle punishment. How do I keep from pouting or getting angry with him when he disciplines me?

(in reply to hallieB)

Post #: 30

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 8:02:52 PM

yasminad

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35

The reason i don't pout or get angry is that i know he will not displne me if i did not need it. He will not do it just for kicks. I "earned' all my displines. The thing i always remember is that he did not love me he would not bother to displine me. He does love me therfore he displine me so i can be a better sub for it. Then it is over i learn from it and we move past it.

I really think this response was put very well...I've bolded and underlined the part that gets me...
My Masters (yes, two! I'm a lucky girl) have had to punish me a couple of times for things that I just KICKED myself about...but the thing is...if they didn't care about me, and about my progress...they wouldn't punish me. But they're being very dilligent about teaching me, and teachers sometimes need to discipline or punish their students.
I don't get mad or pouty with them...I get that way with myself. Its more that I get really upset that I've disappointed them...

Anyway...good luck to you...

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 31

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 6/25/2008 8:26:52 PM

MistressDolly

Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hallieB

I have been in this lifestyle for a very short time. My Master has been very patient with me. I seem to be struggling on some issues and keep making the same mistakes and I believe discipline is about to come into our relationship. I would like some feed back on how I am expected to handle punishment. How do I keep from pouting or getting angry with him when he disciplines me?

Consider why he's disciplining you. It is to make you an ever BETTER slave. That is all you need.

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e

(in reply to hallieB)

Post #: 32

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 7/18/2008 1:29:46 PM

MissEnchanted

Posts: 510
Status: offline

Thanks for your sweet reply Simply Michael,

I have been offline and didn't see what you wrote until now.

Sending you a private on the other side.

ME

< Message edited by MissEnchanted -- 7/18/2008 1:30:57 PM >

_____________________________

“We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"-FDR

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 33

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 7/18/2008 4:25:04 PM

XaviersXian

Posts: 525
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: Australia
Status: offline

greetings to all,

OP, ask permission to walk away if you need to, but bite your tongue. I get raging mad when Master punishes me (a rare event nowdays), and I struggle to keep my mouth shut. Biting my tongue is the hardest thing I have had to learn to do, but, when I do, I find my anger going away, and a more peaceful frame of mind kicking in. I get contemplative, I "put myself in Master's shoes". I realise how upset he must be, because I've consented to serve, and not done so. I've "broken a promise" to him. Then I feel the sense of failure, and that is when I go to him and apologise, ask to be forgiven and thank him for correcting me.

i hope this helps!

well wishes,

(in reply to MissEnchanted)

Post #: 34

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 7/18/2008 4:28:30 PM

Lovearts

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline

generally a thank you is a great response to punishment

(in reply to XaviersXian)

Post #: 35

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 7/18/2008 5:20:24 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tandm

As a sub or slave punishment WILL come to you whe you break the rules. You wanted to be in this D/s relationship, so deal with it. If you do not want to be punished, you do not really want to have this kind of relationship, you may be more interested in kinky sex.

Don't look now but your assumptions are showing.

Not all of us have a punishment dynamic. We don't. In five years the only problems we have ever had have been due to miscommunication. Does that mean I should be beaten for not understanding what he meant? Or perhaps I should be beaten for him forgetting something I had explained?

If I disobey due to willful disobedience, then beating me won't magically cure pre-existing resentments and anger that caused me to disobey on purpose.

The time he sent me an email giving me an order for short skirt, no panties, and high heels? He forgot that my activity that day was chaperoning a school hiking trip to observe raptors. This meant climbing to the top of the local mountain and the outfit he wanted on me would have been highly inappropriate. Had he decided I had to be punished for refusing to expose myself to minors and break a leg in the process I would have refused and would have developed contempt for him.

Telling me he wants shrimp ceviche for dinner does not mean I should be punished if the local market doesn't have any fresh shrimp.

And as I said, around here stuff has always come down to miscommunication. Sometimes forgetfulness, sometimes not understanding, and sometimes being so worked up over a situation that we simply don't hear what the other person says. Punishment is wrong in all of these situations because it won't cure the problem.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to tandm)

Post #: 36

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 7/18/2008 5:57:25 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

quote:

How do I keep from pouting or getting angry with him when he disciplines me?

Umm why would you hide your reactions from him? If he disciplines you and let's you pout or get angry -- why is it wrong for you to pout or get angry? You are a slave who is pouting or angry because you got disciplined. So what?

I think you are worrying to much about it -- if he chooses to punish you or discipline you and you react and end up pouting or angry -- i highly doubt he will care unless he needs you to validate him or make him feel not guilty for disciplining or punishing you.

In my opinion, you react how you react -- honestly. He doesn't need your approval of your punishment or discipline, he doesn't need you validation or for you to make it okay for him to discipline or punish you by hiding what you feel. I can tell you this much, you may pout, your may cry, you may get angry and then -- you will get over it.

Don't make the mistake of presuming you have to train youself to react in a way that is feel good and all gleeful or logical or "correct" because a Man disciplined or punished you, don't try and compensate by trying to guess how you should act, and don't let people you don't know try and tell you how to react to your Master and his decisions for you. Be honest in your reactions and he will take it from there -- if he is anything like the Men i know who punish and discipline slave, your reactions lol won't effect him, the lesson you learn will. If you pout you pout, if he doesn't want you too, he will be sure you know.

If you are a slave, don't worry overmuch about the correct way, worry about his way. And i don't see many Men i know who get all bent out of shape because they have to discipline their slave - its part of the job in many cases, and you don't have to make them feel better because you "act" to make them feel better so to speak -- that to me is humoring him and trying to manipulate the situation by not showing honest reactions -- and he may as well beat ya all over again until you get to the point you have no choice BUT to react honestly because you can't do anything else. Sometimes, the honest emotions that come from being punished or disciplined start a snowball that may help future aspects of your enslavement go a lot easier. I was lucky, my master when i was owned, disciplined me and i knew what i was being disciplined for this was VERY clear before, during, and one last time when the discipline was done, there were times i was mad, angry, pissed off, pouty, sulky, contemplative, upset with myself, or just nodded and hiccuped and kissed him because i could do nothing else... he ignored me, had me do something, used me, or simply grabbed my hair and dragged me with him to curl up between his legs while he watched TV or whatnot. The fact of the matter is, i have different reactions each time i was punished or disciplined and he had different things he did with me afterwards each time. We rarely talked about it afterwards, there was no need -- i was disciplined and he hoped i had learned, if i didn't -- there would be more discipline when i showed him i needed it. In the end, i was a disciplined slave and he was the Man who disciplined me -- it wasn't this big earthshattering stop everything and make it this big blown out thing. It simply was another part of being a slave and a Man who owned one. It was simply discipline of a slave not a big lets reevaluate what your slavery is and what this is all about and you comtemplate the reason for life -- it was simply disciplining of a slave. I promise the world won't stop turning even for a second.

If you start acting now in how you "think" he wants you to act in something as simple as discipline from your Master, be careful because you may actually get to the acting point of faking an organsm and then all the fun is gone!

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/18/2008 6:26:33 PM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 37

RE: punishment "how should I respond?" - 7/19/2008 3:48:59 PM

maat

Posts: 62
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

To me anyway it was hard to accept beeing punished or corrected. It was a great struggle inside not becuse i didnt think it was neccesery but becuse i didnt feel i had the right to use my safeword at the time of beeing punished so He hurt me more than He intended. It was in the verry begining of out relationship and a huge mistake on both parts. Later i came to find out that i dont only whant Him to punish or correct me when it is neccesery but i need him to do so.

Now, you might ask how you can need somone to punish you but for me i get stuck in the feeling of faling him. I get traped and i cant move on, cant let that feeling go untill i get some kind of relise from it. When my Master punish me i know its over, its done and im free to be forgiven and move on. Im free to learn from it.

I know my Master never lifts his hand in anger, i trust him compleatly and its nothing att all like playing with pain in a scene. the feeling of failiur is to much for me and it needs someplace to go. And he always lets me know why it happends. i know were i fail even before he tells me but the sound of his voice and the dissepointment in it can kill a girl and thats also part of why i need to be punished to know that he to have finished it, its over and done with an i can curl up in his arms and be forgiven.

You dont pout unless you feel its unfair and if you feel its unfair you need to express this but if he still desides to punish you it is his choice and you accept it and try to learn from it.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 38

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