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RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/6/2005 4:47:18 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I'm sure you're not the only one who feels that way but I'd like to clarify a few things. I knew that somewhere down the line someone would think I was espousing the idea that submitting to anyone would suffice and that is not the case.

The perspective I presented isn't about submitting to just anyone for the sake of submitting. It doesn't preclude choosing a partner who is trustworthy. It doesn't assume lack of discrimination or lowered standards in choosing a partner. It doesn't mean you can't hold out for your "One" or have any other standards you need/expect to be met by a partner. I realize that the way I expressed it probably seemed rather clinical but given the tendency so many in BDSM have towards romanticism and schlocky sentimentality I think a more rational approach is called for at times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl
I'm only interested in surrendering/submitting to the person I'm interested in surrendering/submitting to. He's only interested in me submitting to him. Not some idea/institution of a relational role.

This in no way lessens my personal responsibility (nor my perception of it).

I know I'm not the only s-type who feels this way.

(in reply to ImpGrrl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/6/2005 5:00:46 PM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

I'm sure you're not the only one who feels that way but I'd like to clarify a few things. I knew that somewhere down the line someone would think I was espousing the idea that submitting to anyone would suffice and that is not the case.

The perspective I presented isn't about submitting to just anyone for the sake of submitting. It doesn't preclude choosing a partner who is trustworthy. It doesn't assume lack of discrimination or lowered standards in choosing a partner. It doesn't mean you can't hold out for your "One" or have any other standards you need/expect to be met by a partner. I realize that the way I expressed it probably seemed rather clinical but given the tendency so many in BDSM have towards romanticism and schlocky sentimentality I think a more rational approach is called for at times.


Actually, I didn't see your post that way at all.

I'm just one who could care less if she submits at all in life - but that submitting to *this person* fits so well. I'm not one who is best fulfilled as an s-type, as many indeed are - I'm (currently) best fulfilled with *him*, and our best dynamic happens to be with me as s-type.

Believe me, I'm all for the clinical :)

I realize that what you say could easily apply to many - those who know that to be fulfilled in their relationship(s), they need to submit. For some of those, it might indeed help to change their mindset.

But, for me, it's not that at all.

So - for me, it is *all* about the person - the dynamic is a distant second.

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/6/2005 5:07:29 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		As contradictory as it might sound I agree with you. As I state in my profile who is much more important to me than what overall. Given that I'm currently in a long term vanilla relationship I'd say that bears out in how I live my life. However, in a secondary D/s relationship I would seek one where I could submit. The fact that I seem to attract submissive men left, right and centre is a whole other thread LOL

quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl
I realize that what you say could easily apply to many - those who know that to be fulfilled in their relationship(s), they need to submit. For some of those, it might indeed help to change their mindset.

But, for me, it's not that at all.

So - for me, it is *all* about the person - the dynamic is a distant second.

(in reply to ImpGrrl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/22/2005 10:39:03 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline 		i like how you think. i too am responsible for myself and it is NOT Her job...
i am here for Her...not the other way around. i maintain zero maintenance.


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/22/2005 11:05:28 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		A prospective submissive needs to be a fully functioning adult to attract my interest. Each person ultimately, is responsible for herself or himself. The deliberate relinquishing of control to another person (the Dominant) does not eliminate intelligent choices and the need for self-evaluation in the slave/submissive.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to veronicaofML)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/23/2005 6:23:20 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

A prospective submissive needs to be a fully functioning adult to attract my interest. Each person ultimately, is responsible for herself or himself. The deliberate relinquishing of control to another person (the Dominant) does not eliminate intelligent choices and the need for self-evaluation in the slave/submissive.



To Control another... one must have control of oneself.

To give Control to another... one must have it to give.

Seems that the second part is often forgotten.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/23/2005 6:43:33 AM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hello There,
I agree with what you say here.
I also feel it's my job to take the best care of myself I can. I need to be whole, healthy, and pleasing to my Master at all times.
To have peace & contentment in our home is a high priority for us.
My Masters first rule is to Protect The Property (ME) At All Times.
He says I should treat myself like one of his most valuable possessions as he wants me to be here and able to take care of him for the long haul.

I agree a good sub or slave should consider mental and physical health responsibilities to their own self to be part of the job they do for their Master.
I also feel those who don't have their Master yet should also Protect The Property for the benefit of their future Master or Mistress.

All of us need to remember we are a most valued commodity and we do need to do the maintenance to keep us as a valuable sub/slave.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/23/2005 10:13:54 AM   
luvdragonx


Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, this is quite a coincidence as I was having a similar discussion just last night.

First off I think every situation is unique, so this in no way applies to everyone, but I believe that a sub/slave SHOULD be personally responsible for themselves and their well-being. I know of one such slave who, after only a few months courtship, packed up her unmentionables and moved to the suburbs to be closer to her new Master and Mistress. She didn't have reliable transportation or a sitter - she depended heavily on her new poly family for that. When things suddenly took a bad turn, she was ass-out. She's over half an hour farther away from her job, the unmentionables need adequate supervision while she makes the commute to and from work, and the support system she may have had near her previous address aren't available.

There are a whole lot of things that went wrong with that situation, but speaking to the slave's responsibility to self - she had none. She used the M/s relationship as an excuse (perhaps subconsciously) to make bad choices. If a slave is entering into a serious LTR within the first year of meeting the Master she chooses, she needs a contingency plan. If it doesn't work out, she could end up worse than she started off. If it does work out, then the need for the plan goes out the window.

Except in certain cases, I feel comfortable saying that a Dom/Master is not God. He is not a puppet master. He cannot make a slave do much more than she truly wants to do. Even if the specific act isn't desirable, pleasing him is so you do it. You may reach a point where pleasing him isn't what you want. That's when things can change. I hate to see anyone wreck themselves and use their dominant as an excuse for it.

< Message edited by luvdragonx -- 11/23/2005 10:19:55 AM >

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/23/2005 11:17:41 AM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline
All of us need to remember we are a most valued commodity and we do need to do the maintenance to keep us as a valuable sub/slave.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne
============

valued commodity.......so is butter and cheese and meat.......
but then? in MY mind.......MY gut.........i guess? maybe? being a hired-hand-only MAY be in SOME one's eyes...a "commodity?"

take care suzanne


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to plantlady64)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Responsibility to Self - 11/23/2005 6:54:57 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

I think the mistake that many submissives/slaves make is that they surrender themselves to the person (i.e. the Dom or Master) when what they should surrender themselves to is submission or slavery itself. The Dom or Master simply provides a venue for them to express their submisison or slavery. I think it is too easy to abdicate personal responsibility when one surrenders themselves to another - it almost seems like a logical extension of surrender that this other person will become the one who is responsible. By surrendering to the submission/slavery rather than the person one retains personal responsibility and also retains their sense of self if the Dom/Master is suddenly no longer in the picture.



words.. i can only say... so true too..

.. no one knows.. when the other.. might not be around no more.. for any reason..

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 30
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