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RE: Red Flag - 6/25/2008 6:12:34 PM   
sweet4now


Posts: 9
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, i just saw that, i wasn't asking if he minded if i ordered something, i want to ask if i could call him back... Oh that is something i am going to have to work on!!!!!  Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention!!!

(in reply to sweet4now)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Battle of wills - 6/25/2008 7:05:26 PM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Someone puts me on hold because they're thirsty? Doesn't bother me a bit.
You do realize he did you a favor don't you?
Did you really want to even ATTEMPT to please this one?
(I mean over a long period of time...not a fling or two in bed...)


I totally agree

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Battle of wills - 6/25/2008 7:08:15 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		1. Try to keep your personal baggage at bay until you get past the "casual aquaintances" stage. No one likes being played right out of the chute.  It leads them to think they can expect more of the same, only worse in the future-not a good beginning.
 
2. Not everything you may have said to him was interesting enough to HIM to get his full attention-he's a guy! Talk to me about tech and bondage,and my attention will be riveted. Talk to me about shoes and kittens-and my attention may have the habit of wandering...........
Try to relate to someone who's a bit different.
 
3. Multitasking is rude in communicating. If you cannot give someone your full attention in a phone conversation-let it go to the answering service.
 
4. While apologies can be very sincere-doing the things that lead to them erode trust and respect. Think twice, speak and act once.

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My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Red Flag - 6/25/2008 7:41:37 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Kind of strange to go to Sonic and sit there to buy a soda in any case. Plus, you could have simply told the girl to give you a coke. That would have taken .001 nanoseconds and you could have continued the phone conversation. If a woman really wants to talk to a guy she is going to put more effort into things.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Battle of wills - 6/25/2008 7:47:27 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I think that you just talk too much and it annoyed him.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Battle of wills - 6/25/2008 7:56:18 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now
At times i admit i did test him to see if he was Dominant enough to "call me out" on things.


That was the only line of the post that stood out to me. Game playing. Getting to know someone new is tough enough. Having to jump through their hoops is a real bitch.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Battle of wills - 6/25/2008 7:56:23 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now
Went home and i emailed him and let him know that i was sincerely sorry for arguing and testing him, but that in this life style you never know what kinda "strange" folk you are going to meet.  Meeting someone on line you had to be careful and that i was sorry for being distant. 

Thought i was over that when i stopped dating vanilla men. 


Have they been so beaten up by vanilla women that they don't know how to react when treated nicely? 



If ya'll disagree with me pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee say so, i am really wanting ya'll's opinion on this matter.






You need to lose the "vanilla" references NOW. Do you think that the "lifestyle" is so different to "vanilla" dating? It isn't. People are people, the end. D/s isn't some fairyland where everyone is understanding, has excellent manners and where a man and a woman meet, get married and live happily ever after. If you think that, you're chasing a fantasy.

I agree completely with LA's take on this. You did not ask this man anything, You TOLD him. It doesn't matter if he's experienced or not, it was bad manners on your part to be in a position where you had to tell (not ask remember), tell him to wait.

I think your use of the word "testing" him is exactly right. That's exactly what you've been doing. You might want to rethink that idea when you start to get close to someone again.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Red Flag - 6/25/2008 9:10:28 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Kind of strange to go to Sonic and sit there to buy a soda in any case. Plus, you could have simply told the girl to give you a coke. That would have taken .001 nanoseconds and you could have continued the phone conversation.


You've obviously never had a Sonic Limeade.
Heaven.
Even without adding Blue Sky vodka.
*lol*

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A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Red Flag - 6/25/2008 9:53:50 PM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Kind of strange to go to Sonic and sit there to buy a soda in any case. Plus, you could have simply told the girl to give you a coke. That would have taken .001 nanoseconds and you could have continued the phone conversation.


You've obviously never had a Sonic Limeade.
Heaven.
Even without adding Blue Sky vodka.
*lol*


My girl loves those things. She gets the big ones and they look almost as big as she is. :)

CD

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Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Red Flag - 6/25/2008 10:19:04 PM   
sweet4now


Posts: 9
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline 		It litterally took me .00001 secs to order "one small ocean water please" , by the time he threw a fit and hung up i was done...
i waited til i got my drink before i called back. 2 mins...
and ohhhhhhhhhhh ocean water with vodka......... i know exactly what ya'll are talking about.

And btw, i had pulled into sonic to give him my undivided attention.  I didn't want to be destracted by driving... but while i was talking .......... i got thirsty....


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Red Flag - 6/25/2008 11:12:56 PM   
JillSpade


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline 		"I'm thirsty. Do you mind holding on for a few seconds?"

It's just polite, whether the person on the other end is your Dom/Owner/Dude you're getting to know. It's even more polite not to put them on hold, but thems the breaks sometimes.

< Message edited by JillSpade -- 6/25/2008 11:14:48 PM >

_____________________________

"How should we like it were stars to burn
With a passion for us we could not return?
If equal affection cannot be,
Let the more loving one be me."

-Excerpt from 'The more loving one', by W. H. Auden

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Battle of wills - 6/26/2008 12:14:55 AM   
wwwkevinww


Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

1. Try to keep your personal baggage at bay until you get past the "casual aquaintances" stage. No one likes being played right out of the chute.  It leads them to think they can expect more of the same, only worse in the future-not a good beginning.
 
2. Not everything you may have said to him was interesting enough to HIM to get his full attention-he's a guy! Talk to me about tech and bondage,and my attention will be riveted. Talk to me about shoes and kittens-and my attention may have the habit of wandering...........
Try to relate to someone who's a bit different.
 
3. Multitasking is rude in communicating. If you cannot give someone your full attention in a phone conversation-let it go to the answering service.
 
4. While apologies can be very sincere-doing the things that lead to them erode trust and respect. Think twice, speak and act once.


Everything said here is valid.  Let me restate point 1 in my own words.  It cannot be said enough . Don't test someone or play games of any kind.  Be genuine and learn what the other person is like.  If  they are playing games, then that is your first impression.  Rely on your first impressions to determine if this is a person you want to move past acquantance stage......

Do not have all your eggs in one basket, don't advertise you are dating around, but you shouldn't be that concerned if it doesn't work.  Its normal for not everyone who meets and dates to *click*.    If a girl tells me she is dating around, that tells me she isn't that serious with me.  I am not interested in a woman who wants to "play the field".  Do not lie about your situation, it will come back to haunt you.  If you've been sexual with people recently and asked, be honest about it.  The person might not want to sleep with the person you slept with vicariously......and if you asked, you'd want the person to be honest.....

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Battle of wills - 6/26/2008 2:36:19 AM   
DarkVictory


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know you, and what I'm posting below is potentially upsetting.  It's not my intention to upset you, but you do ask for feedback.  This feedback is coming from a particular viewpoint, and you may not like it.  If so, ignore it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now
Okay so don't know if it was a battle of wills or me testing him or him testing me... but i had met someone on here, who was someone that i really thought i could be interested in.  Kinda long, partly venting, so if you wanna skip to the ******
i understand, hahaha.

If you're a submissive, or at least playing at being a submissive in this relationship, there's no excuse for a 'battle of wills' - the entire point is to submit.  Did you negotiate up front with him that you intend to be a bratty bottom?  If you did, disregard most of this post.  If you didn't, and he expected to be seeing a submissive, you lied to him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now

Same age, wanted a D/s relationship, but things got off to a very rocky start.  And i didn't help matters by testing him.  Rocky because [bold]well he was extremely indecisive,[/bold] couldn't even decide on where to have dinner for the first date.  [bold]He said give me options, i did... Italian, Mexican, Japanese... he didn't want those, wanted more options[/bold]... long story short we had italian (my decision because he couldn't decide).  [bold]All i wanted to do was get out of the date.[/bold]

Well, what I get from this is that his desires, to be presented with several options from you, were less important than your desire to have him be all lordly domineering or something.  Maybe he meant just exactly what he said... give me more options, and I'll decide.  Sounds like you gave up on the option of "Well Sir, would it be pleasing if I chose?" and made that bad for some reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now

Couple of weeks went by and seemed like everytime we talked he would get half of what i said, then when i would say "that isn't what i said" he would get very defensive.  But when he told me about his day i would always ask questions and want to know everything, genuinually interested.  But his lack of being able to communicate back was at times hurtful, or i was always wrong.  At times i admit i did test him to see if he was Dominant enough to "call me out" on things.

What I see in this is at least potentially you testing him on his listening, almost quizzing him.  And, you do test him, get him to 'call you out' - why?  Can you get that this behavior is not submissive behavior?  It's not the behavior of someone who is genuinely trying to make this guy happy, its more like the behavior of a brat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now

He asked me out again, and again during dinner things were great.  Went home and i emailed him and let him know that i was sincerely sorry for arguing and testing him, but that in this life style you never know what kinda "strange" folk you are going to meet.  Meeting someone on line you had to be careful and that i was sorry for being distant.  Over the past 2 weeks i have been nice, kind, submissive, didn't say anything even when i didn't agree, but the nicer i was the more distant he became.

You argue, test, then apologize.  Then you flip to being suppressed and quiet, like he can't tell you're hiding your opinion, and you wonder why he pulled away?  It's at least possible that he pulled away because you were bratty, inconsistant, and false.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now
This past weekend i had invited him over for dinner, but plans got changed.  Saturday he said he didn't feel like chatting.... i said ok np i will leave you alone.

How did plans get changed?  Did he cancel or you? "I don't feel like chatting" - could well be code for "I dont want to argue with you or fight you anymore"


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now
Last night......... i was at Sonic, i said hold on i want to order a drink... i pushed the button and the lady was IMMEDIATELY there.  He was flipping out then hung up the phone, after i got my order and paid i called him back and he said that [bold]i treated him like a 12 year old and that i was rude.[/bold]  I didn't have a chance to ask him if he wanted me to call him back cause the lady was on so fast, i apologized and said that i didn't know it bothered him so much, and that it wouldn't happen again.

I think you're missing the point.  There's a way that this guy wants you to act around him, a way he wants you to be.  He wants you to focus on pleasing him by acting that way.  When you don't act that way, to him it seems rude and disrespectful.  What I get from your comments is that you're not very interested in learning how to act the way he wants you to, and that when he's upset by you, rather than try to change your behavior, you defend it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now
Which brings me to today, where i get an email that says we just don't get along, ect.  I was like "huh??"  you want to stop talking to me cause i ordered a drink with you on the phone?  REALLY??
***********************************************************

No... not at all.  He doesn't feel like you two get along for what seems like a long list of reasons that I've potentially highlighted above.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now

Okay this does have an actually question... but why do some guys seem to revel when you act like a Bitch, but don't know what to do with themselves when you are actually nice to them?  Thought i was over that when i stopped dating vanilla men. 

And why do some guys think women are wrong NO MATTER what a woman says? 

Well, the lines above are possibly quite revealing.  So, in your past vanilla relationships you've been a bitch?  And guys 'dont know what to do with themselves' when you're not?  Maybe its shock.

The 'wrong' thing is probably the biggest point.  A dominant / submissive relationship is not a battle of wills.  It's your *role* as a submissive to submit.  What that means is when he says you're wrong - well then you're wrong.  And be willing to be politely, accomodatingly, pleasingly wrong.  When he's got nothing to push against, no resistance from you, there can be no battle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now


Is this an insecurity thing?

Have they been so beaten up by vanilla women that they don't know how to react when treated nicely? 

You're still beating them up.  Thats the point.  If you want to see the common denominator in all, every single one, of your failed and broken relationships, all of them, go look in the mirror.  You've been there for all of them.  I'm not saying you're at fault, but you're there each and every time.  Its like looking at a beat up car that's obviously been in several accidents and thinking 'wow, that person meets a lot of bad drivers' instead of the much more likely truth, being 'wow, that guy is a danger on the road'.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now


Is this a lack of Dom experience?  Because i have been in long term submissive relationships.  I am not an expert but i do try.  I love serving someone, i also enjoy intellegent conversation where ..... no we don't have to agree on everything, but that is kind of the fun of getting to know someone.  Accepting the other person's differances.

If ya'll disagree with me pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee say so, i am really wanting ya'll's opinion on this matter.


If the above was too harsh, ignore it and move on.  (drops $0.02 in the jar)

(in reply to sweet4now)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Battle of wills - 6/26/2008 3:15:26 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

If you're a submissive, or at least playing at being a submissive in this relationship, there's no excuse for a 'battle of wills' - the entire point is to submit.  Did you negotiate up front with him that you intend to be a bratty bottom?  If you did, disregard most of this post.  If you didn't, and he expected to be seeing a submissive, you lied to him.





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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to DarkVictory)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Battle of wills - 6/26/2008 3:44:32 AM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		 
 
Communication
   You both failed each other in that area
 
He needs to grow more patience and learn to assert & communicate his wants and wishes more effectively.
 
Your part is to learn to listen for those, and when they( his/her preference) are not there/known...  ASK
Camille nailed it.
 


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.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Battle of wills - 6/26/2008 3:44:43 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		You say you understand you were rude at the cell call.  Yet you go on to make excuses?  No - you don't understand just how rude that is, no matter what you requested from him.
 
He is undecisive?  If your not comfortable with that, then move on.
 
You tested him?  Bad move.
 
And to be perfectly honest, you controlled the relationship from the beginning and never submitted to a thing.  Your entire first post indicates that.  You said it was OK, you pushed the phone onto hold, you did this.... etc.
Plus your communication is poor, again great examples during our posts here.  First you say one thing, then explain you meant another.
 
I would suggest you were not compatable.  I would also work on what you really want and your communication skills.  You need to work on your organisation skills and work out why you have a need to be so defensive and place blame on others instead of accepting your responsibility by making excuses for what you do.
 
the.dark.



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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Battle of wills - 6/26/2008 4:06:59 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		A lot of really good advice.  Not much else I can say except to agree that by "testing" him, you made a bad move.   No one wants to be tested that way and it certainly isn't a way to begin a relationship.  

With the phone call and the drink ordering - The person on the other end of that button would have waited on me to get back to her.  I would have made sure he knew what I was doing and that it would only take a few seconds AND would have asked if he minded holding for a few seconds..  Otherwise, it's rude and you put yourself before him.  He would have been my first priority, not ordering the drink.  

In any kind of relationship, honesty and good manners goes a long way. 


(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Red Flag - 6/26/2008 4:57:08 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet4now
And btw, i had pulled into sonic to give him my undivided attention.  I didn't want to be destracted by driving... but while i was talking .......... i got thirsty....


I hadn't even got to page two.
And this sums up your priorities and problems in one simple sentance.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Battle of wills - 6/26/2008 5:35:14 AM   
sweet4now


Posts: 9
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory
I think you're missing the point.  There's a way that this guy wants you to act around him, a way he wants you to be.  He wants you to focus on pleasing him by acting that way.  When you don't act that way, to him it seems rude and disrespectful.  What I get from your comments is that you're not very interested in learning how to act the way he wants you to, and that when he's upset by you, rather than try to change your behavior, you defend it.
Well, the lines above are possibly quite revealing.  So, in your past vanilla relationships you've been a bitch?  And guys 'dont know what to do with themselves' when you're not?  Maybe its shock.

The 'wrong' thing is probably the biggest point.  A dominant / submissive relationship is not a battle of wills.  It's your *role* as a submissive to submit.  What that means is when he says you're wrong - well then you're wrong.  And be willing to be politely, accomodatingly, pleasingly wrong.  When he's got nothing to push against, no resistance from you, there can be no battle.

You're still beating them up.  Thats the point.  If you want to see the common denominator in all, every single one, of your failed and broken relationships, all of them, go look in the mirror.  You've been there for all of them.  I'm not saying you're at fault, but you're there each and every time.  Its like looking at a beat up car that's obviously been in several accidents and thinking 'wow, that person meets a lot of bad drivers' instead of the much more likely truth, being 'wow, that guy is a danger on the road'.


Okay DarkVictory thank y ou so much for your post... really i do appreciate it greatly!!!

But please keep in mind that for space sake i did shorten things a little.  We didn't argue because he thought i was wrong about something, more of i like the color blue, he doesn't and likes green.  He would give all the reasons why he likes green, very glad he likes green but i still like blue... and then he would get mad that i didn't like green nor allow me to express why i like blue. 

There were times that i fully agree with you i could of worded things much more submissively.  And i am going to work on that.  I am the office mgr for a landscaping company.  I have to boss 50 men all day everyday, i do struggle with getting out of that mode.

However your comment about failed and broken relationships :) i am sorry but that was an assumption on your part.  I have had beautiful wonderful long lasting DD relationships.  I have not sought a DD relationship in a while because the last was pretty heart breaking... I did date vanilla men but ended the relationship because i knew that wasn't what i wanted.

And he never communicated to me when i did something that bothered him until the Sonic inncodent.  If he had, i would of happily changed my behavior to please him. 

You are right, i still had my Ofc Mgr hat on.  Still trying to controll situations.  I am trying very hard to break that habit.  THat is why i posted here, see what i could of done differently and how to of better handled the circumstances so that i do not repeat it.

(in reply to DarkVictory)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A bit of clarification... - 6/26/2008 5:43:29 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		My 2 cents, from the original story:
You two are obviously not compatible. You have done nothing but test him, and he got tired of it. HE was not able to commuicate well with you, and you were obviously not happy with it
My question is, why, then is it a bad thing to break it off?
Do you ust not like the idea that he rejected you?
It has nothing to do with your trying to be nice to him, from every part of what you put up, you hadnt gotten to that yet. Youve been a SAM without the masochism, and Id have dismissed you fairly quickly under the ircumstnaces I am surprised he tried so hard. His lack of experience might be the reason it lasted so long, not why he finally ended it.

Reconsider how you relate to people next time you meet someone. If you do nothing but test them and rattle their confidence from day one, do not be surprised if they do not react well. To test, you have to oeby part of the time and ony act out some... it isnt a test if it isnt a change of behaviour from your norm. There are some of us who do not tolerate testing and if you try it you wil shoot yourself in the foot.



DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to sweet4now)
Profile   Post #: 40
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