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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/26/2008 10:51:07 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

That is news to me.  Do tell now....





         The North Korean angle has been backed off on, since the last time I read about this.  They are called supernotes.  


      

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/26/2008 10:59:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


In '09',we`ll see people who are now holding their money,start to invest it.Consumer confidence(now at a 20 year low)will turn around.It can only go up from here.




           Uh-huh....   Those promised tax hikes on capital gains and corporations are going to have folks rushing right out to put that money in the stock market, or launch a new business venture.


       That looks like one vote for "yes" to my question.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/27/2008 4:08:36 AM   
Bethnai


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Status: offline 		Sure, but I am on my way to work now, I am coming home for a quick nap and I won't be back until 7AM Sat. So if not today then after I wake up tomorrow.

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/27/2008 12:05:27 PM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		Well it looks like this time the North Koreans might actually be serious.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KOREAS_NUCLEAR?SITE=JRC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT 

Only time will tell.

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 5:33:28 PM   
Bethnai


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First, this is an election year and it is imperative that this administration looks like it achieved its goals and more importantly to keep Republicans in the Whitehouse to finish it. Iraq’s oil contracts go to the US , well that mission was accomplished. For those that are paranoid, the bad man was removed from power thus bringing democracy and liberty.

But, what North Korea has going for it and did from the get go is a relationship with China and with Russia. China is important due to the border. Almost all of NK’s trade and food comes from China. Hence, the talks etc. there. The moment that China said, yeah we will apply some pressure NK fell to the side. China, on the whole, does not like sanctions, they don’t work. What isn’t going to work is the ability to go in and remove Kim Jong II, or to disrupt the country. It was never going to happen. The stakes are very different. However, a half ass report came out and they are removed from the terrorist list because they are …….trying. A couple of sanctions get lifted. This administration gets applause BUT, and this is the fun part: one can always go back in and fuck with NK for not complying or moving fast enough thus becoming a political issue demanding our ever vigilant watch by our military presence. (Frankly, our guys in South Korea may as well be on a suicide mission.) We can have a new demon. We can even demonize China or Russia at will for the American public viewing pleasure. For the moment, however, it looks like a success. Although, it was kind of a wrap before.

This means we have one more on the table. That is Iran. And we will listen to a bunch of crap until the election of our “problem” with Iran and how to deal with them. The message that is being sent is that IF Iran made a few concessions then some of the sanctions will be lifted. The current administration AND more importantly the possible future administration can always fall back on the we don’t have to sit down at the table with some countries yet state that at the moment its possible.  This is important right now because Obama has stated that he is willing to sit down with Iran and other “rogue nations”.

The reality of it is that it is a whole nother ball game altogether.

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 5:50:30 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

Iraq’s oil contracts go to the US


That's not true at all.

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2008/02/18/news/OUKWD-UK-IRAQ-OIL.php


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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 5:57:34 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		This is a bad deal.

There`s no accounting for who they`ve done business with.

They provided the bomb part of the "Islamic Bomb" to the Pakastanis.

They provided nuce tech.to Seria and a few other scary middle east governments .

They need to account and fess up to that shit,but won`t have to under this deal.

This is a bad deal for the US and conservatives are pissed.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/26/mccain_breaks_with_bush_over_n.html

McCain Breaks with Bush Over North Korea
By Glenn Kessler
Sen. John McCain broke today with President Bush's new policy on North Korea, co-authoring an opinion article with Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) in which he called for a return to Bush's original demand of a complete, verifiable, irreversible disarmament of North Korea's nuclear programs.






http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/washington/25weapons.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=world&adxnnlx=1214700897-JtHoz21CjTrT1mN/8YCzow

"The Right Confronts Rice Over North Korea Policy"

WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 — A fight has erupted between conservatives on national security and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice over the Bush administration’s pursuit of diplomacy with North Korea in the face of intelligence that North Korea might have helped Syria begin construction on a nuclear reactor.

http://ballyblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/bush-administration-lifts-sanctions-against-n-korea-republicans-upset/


I have no doubt that this is for the photo opp.,not because it`s merited.

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 7:01:28 PM   
Bethnai


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Status: offline 		No Bid contracts http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/world/middleeast/19iraq.html?scp=2&sq=no+bid+contracts&st=nyt

Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP — the original partners in the Iraq Petroleum Company — along with Chevron and a number of smaller oil companies, are in talks with Iraq’s Oil Ministry for no-bid contracts to service Iraq’s largest fields, according to ministry officials, oil company officials and an American diplomat.
The deals, expected to be announced on June 30, will lay the foundation for the first commercial work for the major companies in Iraq since the American invasion, and open a new and potentially lucrative country for their operations.
The no-bid contracts are unusual for the industry, and the offers prevailed over others by more than 40 companies, including companies in Russia, China and India. The contracts, which would run for one to two years and are relatively small by industry standards, would nonetheless give the companies an advantage in bidding on future contracts in a country that many experts consider to be the best hope for a large-scale increase in oil production.

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 7:21:15 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		That article refers to technical support contracts awarded by the Iraqi government, some of which might go to American companies  - which is obviously a far cry from your earlier claim.

So thank you correcting your mistake.

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 7:36:54 PM   
Bethnai


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Status: offline 		The above was meant for Sanity. 

Owner59: 

North Korea is a pawn. It has always been a pawn.  North Korea has two relationships worth their weight in gold.  China and Russia.  Right now, China and Russia are real tight. http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4853 Russia and Syria have been real tight for awhile. http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2006/issue1/jv10no1a4.html.

This is ultimately, a proxy war. 


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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 7:54:12 PM   
JohnSteed1967


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Status: offline 		US V. North Korea

If we had listened to MacAurther in the Korean war we would have bombed them back to the stone age and then the Chinese would have gotten involved and we would have had WWIII on our hands.

However, at this point we really can't piss in the North Korean's Cherrios because they have China to back them up. There are Hundreds if not Thousands of in the closet dissidents in NK because they know that they will never be free on their dear leader.

NK has been through repeated famines, up to the point that the interior minister was made to go on NK tv and assure the people that they should eat grass. From what I understand he puked on tv, I am sure he was sent off to a re-education camp and promptly shot. which is why they have been talking trash about thier bomb, they want the US to give them money or food

Bush, wants desprately to try to end his Empire on a positve note, (good luck with that ya little shurb.) Bush is desprate for an opening. But yet he has failed to talk about human rights abuses or that little nuclear plant that they are running in Syria!

Two quotes first from Art Bell, "we went into Iraq because we thought they might have the bomb, We Know that the North Korea's do. We went into Iraq because they might mistreat their people, We Know the North Koreans do! So why did we invade Iraq and not North Korea???? North Korea doesn't have Oil"

second Hilary Clinton, "The world will give a collective sigh of relief when the moving van backs up to the white house, and takes bush back to Texas"

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 7:55:56 PM   
Bethnai


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Status: offline 		Its ok, Sanity. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend all you want.  There is going to come a day when your going to have to remember the worth of those contracts.  I'm going to remind you. 36 years they have been out.
Iran is paying attention. http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=171883 

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 8:10:06 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Head in the sand? Pfft. You posted a total fabrication and when I called you on it the only article you could find to back it up backed me up - yet still you persist in believing the falsehood. So whose head is where?

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 10:22:43 PM   
MadameMarque


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Status: offline 		There is the matter of the abductions.  North Korea has finally admitted to abducting Japanese citizens, many of them children, purportedly in order to learn from them how to blend into Japanese culture and infiltrate there.  Of the over 100 suspected cases (though no one outside of North Korea really knows how many), NK has only admitted to 13.  Of those 13 people, North Korea claims that 8 of them have died of natural causes or accident.  All of those people were in their 20's to 30's.  The survival rate for Japanese abductees in North Korea is very poor, apparently.

The Japanese government has tried to urge our government not to take the pressure off of North Korea, until they satisfy Japan's demand for the return of all their abducted citizens and disclosure of information about the abductions and what has happened to the abductees.  Up till the last minute, Bush gave lip service to claiming that he would honor their request.

Until the documentary on the most public of these cases, the Yokota Megumi abduction - the disappearance of a 13 year old girl, whose parents would not give up looking for her, which recently aired on PBS' Independent Lens, I was not aware of this issue.  I'm surprised not to have heard of it before.  If you search for "yokota abduction," you'll get lots of links, including these: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/abduction, http://abductionfilm.blogspot.com. 

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/28/2008 10:41:50 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Yes, exactly.  The only remaining member of the so-called Axis of Evil is Iran.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

North Korea served its purpose.  This is more of a statement of expectations toward Iran.

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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/29/2008 6:29:10 AM   
Bethnai


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The Kucinich Impeachment Articles , start on page 23 with Article XI-XIII , scroll down to Article XV and Article XVI are important. Of particular interest is Article XXI 38-41 that deal with Iran.
Here are the maps and charts he refers to, dated March 2001. You might remember BearingPoint, the firm that drafted the Iraq Oil Law from their recent score of 12.3M in a defense contract for the Navy.
Here is the draft of the Iraq Oil Law that Bearingpoint helped write.
This is a nifty article:

Iraqi politicians have been locked in a bitter dispute over how much control the federal government in Baghdad should have over regional oil operations, and how revenues would be shared among different communities. The technical agreements with the four Western companies would bypass the stalled law, offering oil companies payment for their services rather than a share of the oil. Such production agreements also circumvent the resistance among many Iraqi politicians to selling the rights to Iraqi oil directly to foreign companies, while making use of their technical skills.
Guess who didn't get invited to the party?
The four companies were picked from among more than 40 firms, including several from Russia, China and India, which were denied any contracts despite having signed memoranda of understanding with the Iraqi oil ministry, Gulf Today said.
“No-bid contracts are unusual for the oil industry and the deals being worked out are designed to let the four companies gain a firm foothold in Iraq,” it commented.
Russia had fair warning in 2003.
Another point that needs to be brought up because it is hand and hand is the SOFA.
US wants
A secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the US presidential election in November.
The terms of the impending deal, details of which have been leaked to The Independent, are likely to have an explosive political effect in Iraq. Iraqi officials fear that the accord, under which US troops would occupy permanent bases, conduct military operations, arrest Iraqis and enjoy immunity from Iraqi law, will destabilise Iraq's position in the Middle East and lay the basis for unending conflict in their country.
Under the terms of the new treaty, the Americans would retain the long-term use of more than 50 bases in Iraq. American negotiators are also demanding immunity from Iraqi law for US troops and contractors, and a free hand to carry out arrests and conduct military activities in Iraq without consulting the Baghdad government.
Washington also wants control of Iraqi airspace below 29,000ft and the right to pursue its "war on terror" in Iraq, giving it the authority to arrest anybody it wants and to launch military campaigns without consultation.
We may not be able to get out of it:
The target date for concluding the agreement is July, says Gen. Doug Lute, Bush's Iraq coordinator in the White House—in other words, just in time for the Democratic and Republican national conventions.
Most significant of all, the new partnership deal with Iraq, including a status of forces agreement that would then replace the existing Security Council mandate authorizing the presence of the U.S.-led multinational forces in Iraq, will become a sworn obligation for the next president. It will become just another piece of the complex global security framework involving a hundred or so countries with which Washington now has bilateral defense or security cooperation agreements. Last month, Sen. Hillary Clinton urged Bush not to commit to any such agreement without congressional approval. The president said nothing about that on Saturday, but Lute said last fall that the Iraqi agreement would not likely rise to the level of a formal treaty requiring Senate ratification. Even so, it would be difficult if not impossible for future presidents to unilaterally breach such a pact.

Read 'em and weap.



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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/29/2008 6:53:53 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		According to your source, one of the companies is American while the other three are not.

And again, these contracts aren't even for oil, they're for technical services. The Iraqi government would be wise to carefully choose who they want for advisors, yet you insist they put up for bid who should give them oil field advice?

Who they select is their prerogative.

The rest of your post (which looks suspiciously like cut and paste) is irrelevant to our prior discussion, and things like 'The Kucinitch Impeachment Papers' are not only another entire thread, but they also belong in the 'Humor' section as well.

Or 'Polls and Other Random Stupidity' perhaps...





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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/29/2008 7:14:28 AM   
Bethnai


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Status: offline 		That is all you got?

I not only cut and pasted,  I provided you with the links of where you can look at the information directly.  How do you like them apples? You, on the other hand ain't holding squat.  Noted by the : I don't like the information that you provided but rather than refute you on anything solid, which you wanted from me, I'm going to offer my own subjective shit and pretend that it holds weight because I don't like it stance.


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RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/29/2008 7:19:12 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		One thing about Iraq's oil that shouldn't go unnoticed is that only a few short years ago one of the most elite families in the world controlled all of Iraq's oil wealth, and they used that wealth to build numerous vast dungeons of unimaginable terror for the Iraqi people, as well as a war machine that killed millions and millions of Iraqis as well as citizens of surrounding nations.

Today that oil wealth is controlled by the Iraqi people through their democratically elected government, and all the hatred, lies, and awkward conspiracy theories in the world will never change the fact that America is a saint in all of this.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Bush to lift North Korean sactions?!?!! - 6/29/2008 7:23:53 AM   
Bethnai


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Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		One thing that should not go unnoticed is that prior to the sanctions that occured during the 1990's, you had a country that had a phenomonal education and health care system.

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