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RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 6:09:51 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Hello Kalista

Im am glad you did not feel the post I made was overtly personal and are open to discussing. You ask -

quote:

i guess i'm a little confused as to why You would think i entered the relationship under false pretenses?

I want to make it clear that I don't feel you did what you did on purpose, nor are the false pretenses to your partner, but to yourself(which I said in my post but may not have been very clear - sorry).

Your initial postings stated clearly you believed you could change him - but submission is not about changing the person you submit to - it is about submitting. So - for me - if I was you - I would be questioning why I feel that my submission means I have that power. Because I certainly do not unless the other person has agreed to it. This is my opinion said out of concern for you - that you are cheating yourself by settling.

Obviously your follow up postings indicate this may not be the case - that you are dipping your toe into poly as it were - but this conflicts with your initial statement. So clarity on what you initially did would help yourself. Are you settling - with the hope he will ultimately choose you over all others, or are you compromising and trying, knowing that if you can't be poly, that the relationship may ultimately end - not because of him being with others, but because you are unable to exist in such a relationship.

Another reason I feel you may be under a false pretense, is the mere mention of defining cheating that your man made. Taking that into consideration with what you have divulged about your transition into this relationship, makes me assume that he is well aware of your internal battle and it wasn't so much a 'mind fuck' or 'mood killer' as others have stated, but a indicator that he is aware that what you may see as cheating may not be his same idea and it could be he is opening communication for you to talk to him which any grounded dominant person who is aware of their charges emotions would do. He is giving you the ability to go to him honestly. Don't lose that moment.

Again, this is my opinion and I could be totally wrong as I have only second hand info I have read here. But cheating yourself just for the sake of being with him will come back to hurt you later.

the.dark.

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(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 41

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 6:27:29 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I know that I'm at risk for being attacked for this, but here goes.

In quite a few BDSM relationships there is a built in double standard on what is considered cheating and what is not. In my relationship, I knew going in that my Master had other subs (I am His only slave). I know that He has sex with His subs, so I do not consider this cheating - nor do I ask anything about those relationships. I am more comfortable not knowing.

At the same time, I would be considered to be cheating by even showing anyone my bare breasts, butt, or pubic area. The only hard and fast rule we have is that if I ever have sex with another man the relationship is over.

This would not work for every relationship, and others may criticize it, but W/we talked about it up front and it was never hidden. I willingly agreed to the double standard because I want to other man touching me and I know that my Master will never be satisfied with just one woman. Where the problem comes in for some 'couples' is when it hasn't been discussed in advance.

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Post #: 42

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 6:40:03 AM

TwoNYCDommes

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
"of course at some point we are going to have to talk about what exactly cheating means in a 24/7 TPE relationship."

To me, cheating = breaking the rules. Each relationship has its own rules, and you need to define yours.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 43

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 6:46:44 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

I know that I'm at risk for being attacked for this, but here goes.

In quite a few BDSM relationships there is a built in double standard on what is considered cheating and what is not. In my relationship, I knew going in that my Master had other subs (I am His only slave). I know that He has sex with His subs, so I do not consider this cheating - nor do I ask anything about those relationships. I am more comfortable not knowing.

At the same time, I would be considered to be cheating by even showing anyone my bare breasts, butt, or pubic area. The only hard and fast rule we have is that if I ever have sex with another man the relationship is over.

This would not work for every relationship, and others may criticize it, but W/we talked about it up front and it was never hidden. I willingly agreed to the double standard because I want to other man touching me and I know that my Master will never be satisfied with just one woman. Where the problem comes in for some 'couples' is when it hasn't been discussed in advance.

What is there to 'attack'? This is D/s, the rules are as that individual couple/group set out and are comfortable with... usualy set out by the Dominant and bought into, submitted to by the 's' type.... it doesn't have to fit in with societys vision of 'fair'.

As you highlight though it requires honesty on all sides, what is offered, what is committed to. Upfront and then stuck to!

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 44

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 6:50:52 AM

StrangerThan

Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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When I see things like, what is cheating? It carries a Clintonesque feel to it. I once worked with someone who defiend cheating as vaginal penetration, which left a whole world of activities open for play. The problem with that definition was that it was bullshit in terms of their relationship. Had the spouse walked in on any of the alternate activities, I know for certain that he would have taken quite a dim view of her strict definition.

The problem with this type of question is that it's almost seeking a specific action. If he does this, is it cheating, or if he does that is it cheating. It's cheating when it feels like it to you. If you walk in on him with his hands down another woman's pants, technically he may not have realized the act, but in reality, the act itself is not what's damaging. It's the intent, the hidden nature of it, the sudden and demoralizing knowledge that your world is not what it seemed to be. Cheating is anything that destroys that trust, tears down those walls that you've taken time to build between yourselves and the rest of the world, that place where you can simply be and exist. That doesn't mean he will never fuck or play with another nor that you will never. Both can happen within the boundaries you set with each other. Cheating is when what happens exists outside those boundaries and definitely when one has to hide it.

If it feels like it, it is, no matter what someone tells you. That can be as simple as a kiss, as complex as a long affair. Doesn't really matter. The damage that is done is done regardless of what action was taken to do that damage.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 45

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 6:53:49 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
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Deception.

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Post #: 46

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 7:24:11 AM

WolfsbaneX

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/22/2008
From: The Twilight Zone, formerly of The Dark Carnival
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

to me, anything that needs to be "hidden" from a partner isn't good, and if it's an outside relationship that is hidden, that constitutes cheating in my book.

I agree, my mate and I agreed on 3 simple rules for our relationship even before it entered the BDSM realm. 1st, she could find a playmate as long as it was only a female she was playing with. 2nd I was either allowed to play with her playmate as well or find a playmate of my own. 3rd, COMPLETE HONESTY ABOUT THAT AND ALL RELATED SUBJECTS.

(in reply to christine1)

Post #: 47

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 7:30:18 AM

colouredin

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Joined: 2/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Deception.

*nods*

I was having just this chat the other day, its chatting with someone online and lying about it, hugging someone, and lying about it, holding hands and lying about it. See I struggle with drunken kisses, is it really cheating if the person admits it right away? It wasnt planned? I dont think it is but thats just me. Sexual/physical contact whatever isnt cheating if you say you are going to first, as most people have already said.

In regards to the 'saying you were poly' when you werent, thats seems silly to me and of course it will become an issue, dispite how 'not ready' you are now its something he wants and you dont and really you need to talk about that.

You just have to do what you need to make you happy, maybe the relationship wont work out (but you know what MOST relationships dont, it doesnt make them invalid you can still learn and grow and enjoy them)

Seriously talk to him about it

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Post #: 48

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 8:06:25 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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I am much aligned with Christine- if you feel you need to hide it, then it's cheating. It doesn't matter WHAT it is you feel you need to hide- the latest shoe shopping receipt, bad news at work, a comment from someone on the boards, an email- if you feel you have to hide it, then you're cheating.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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Post #: 49

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 8:39:04 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovepuppy

I have noticed whatever sin we are most likely to commit are the ones we guard ourselves against the most strongly...liars assume everyone is lieing, thieves assume they have been stolen from, cheaters assume others will cheat...

I have to disagree. I abhor liars and cheats, because I have been involved with liars and cheats. It's a waste of my time (among other things) and I really don't want to go down that road again. So I guard myself against that very strongly.

Cali

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(in reply to lovepuppy)

Post #: 50

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 8:43:50 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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To me..cheating is giving your heart totaly to another other than your primary partner. It's got nothing to do with your physical body.

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I'm not inflatable.

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Post #: 51

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 8:46:22 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
To me..cheating is giving your heart totaly to another other than your primary partner. It's got nothing to do with your physical body.

Is that including family and children?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 52

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 9:02:45 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I am much aligned with Christine- if you feel you need to hide it, then it's cheating. It doesn't matter WHAT it is you feel you need to hide- the latest shoe shopping receipt, bad news at work, a comment from someone on the boards, an email- if you feel you have to hide it, then you're cheating.

I agree with you that this topic encompasses all sorts of things beyond just sex. Dishonesty is cheating your partner(s) out of honesty. One can cheat on a diet, which is really just cheating yourself. You can cheat someone out of your love. You can cheat someone out of an agreement, or on a bet, or by withholding your feelings or withdrawing from someone, or by not holding your end of a relationship - whatever it is.

It's the sex cheating that seems to have the greatest effect on people, but I think it's the other kind of cheating that usually leads to the sex cheating.

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Post #: 53

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 9:53:34 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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kali darlin, I understand where you are at and where you are comming from don't I? Hind site is always 20/20 and I wonder just how many here have never made a false assumption or believed at the time that what they were saying was or will be true only to find their assumption or belief was not right. few if any I believe. I'm a great believer of getting the cards face up on the table even if it is a tad late and look and several things. I'd like to see both of you define your ideas of what each of you consider cheating, TPE and Poly to be.. Of course you are going to be nervous of him talking to other slaves but he is keeping you in the loop. Neets and I went through the slightly rough patch when we first went Poly but because we maintained a close communication about our feelings and how thing were gong to happen, we got through it easily. As soon as I can get my YM wporking again we can both keep in touch with you. Skype is still working and if you need my new skype ID message me on the other side and I'll give it to you. failing that if you are still on the same phone number I'll ring you..

Iron Bear
(Incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent)
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

Omar Khayyam 1048 CE to 1123 CE (Persian Mathematician, Scientist, Astronomer, Philosopher & Poet).

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 54

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 10:06:40 AM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

heheh that so wouldn't work for me because I am a nudist, and I am nude every chance I get, most expesially at play parties. And If I had friends who were comfy with me being naked with them at my house I went naked even then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

At the same time, I would be considered to be cheating by even showing anyone my bare breasts, butt, or pubic area.

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 55

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 12:25:42 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
To me..cheating is giving your heart totaly to another other than your primary partner. It's got nothing to do with your physical body.

Is that including family and children?

If your heart is elsewhere.. probably

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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Post #: 56

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 1:50:15 PM

Stusmobile

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Cheating - and act that would cause you or your partner(s) to question that act if it was performed in front of each other.

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Post #: 57

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 2:09:02 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Stus- which doesn't work in a lot of situations. I can have sex with someone in front of my partner and THEN lie to him about where I'm going and then go have sex with that same person at their apartment. I'm still cheating, even if I could easily do it right in front of my partner.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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Post #: 58

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 5:21:19 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

He and i were talking a while back about His promise to me to never cheat on me....And as i was just about asleep He said to me, "of course at some point we are going to have to talk about what exactly cheating means in a 24/7 TPE relationship."
Luckily for me, we are not there yet..... But, in all honesty, the more i think about this, the more confused i am...

Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks,
Kali

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

(Sounds like he's building an escape route LOL).

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Post #: 59

RE: What is cheating? - 6/27/2008 5:40:55 PM

smolderingember

Posts: 7
Joined: 10/23/2007
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Indeed it does. Sounds to me like He's trying to work you around to perhaps a suggestion of "swinging"

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Post #: 60

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