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Balance - 6/27/2008 6:09:29 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Hello Everyone,

I wrote something similar for another thread and found it has been a theme in my brain for a few other threads.  Here on the boards we are so definite, so black and white.... right and wrong.  It is bothersome to me.  Yes, I know when someone says "was I wrong?" they are asking for judgment.  What is difficult for me is the absoluteness that people say yes and no.  Where is the acknowledgment of growth?  The understanding that sometimes people are taken aback, overwhelmed, scared, etc.?  I put the following statement to you for responses.  It is something that I am currently working on, in the struggle, moving forward... Not in the black and not in the white, not in right or wrong... just living in the learning process.  I welcome your feedback.

*************************

Finding the balance between being a subly type and not arguing with the Domly types...
Doing what they say knowing by my own experience that is not going to work...
Feeling overwhelmed by their lack of mastery of themselves in areas I have mastered and them pulling me down to their level.

I don't say this is true for other s-types, but for me... I find it difficult at times to stand up to the M types and put my full intelligence out there, my experiences, my talents that surpass their own.  I dumb  it down for them or ignore my own knowledge so as not to "hurt their feelings"... so as to make them feel good... and yet that's silly. 

Intellect, feelings, talent, submission all wrapped up into one.  Talking more knowingly about a topic, living more passionately, being more worldly, basically having strengths where they have weaknesses ... these are sometimes intimidating for me as an S-type.  How to be pleasing and be Enter Superlative Here...  But they are my truth... as are the fact that i'm an average gal... in many many ways and below average in others.  Aren't we all?

How to honor the learning process?

peace and passion,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14
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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 6:11:58 PM   
Leatherist


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By realizing that *projection* is the main reason for *judgement*.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 6:19:36 PM   
tinkerbelle3


Posts: 55
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Thank you for sharing what's on your mind ~ Sometimes, it does take courage to do so.

One night we were at the gym playing racquetball and I intentionally lobbed one to him. He said "don't dummy down, play me hard like I know you can" In other words he calls me on it.

I haven't had the struggles you do, mostly because he's always made it clear to me that he wants to see the 'real me.' So of course I comply : )

- tinkerbelle

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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 6:26:14 PM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
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In my mind when I stop learning from others be it my boy or anyone else I are in trouble.

Mike


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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 6:28:55 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
If you have to dumb down, then you've picked the wrong partner. He doesn't want me to say "Yes, oh godlike one" when I know he's going to fall flat on his ass. He wants me to have his back, to tell him when he's going to screw up royally so that he doesn't do it. My telling him where his plans are going wrong allow him to not go wrong, to correct things ahead of time.

And if I was in all areas better than him, then I wouldn't be with him because I couldn't respect and admire someone who I have to teach all the time. Love and like? Certainly, but no admiration and I need that in a d/s relationship. YMMV

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 7:09:32 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I find it difficult at times to stand up to the M types and put my full intelligence out there, my experiences, my talents that surpass their own.  I dumb  it down for them or ignore my own knowledge so as not to "hurt their feelings"... so as to make them feel good... and yet that's silly.

That's one of my few hard limits.  If she's not willing to be heckasmart around me, I'm not willing to be around her at all.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 7:16:27 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I don't say this is true for other s-types, but for me... I find it difficult at times to stand up to the M types and put my full intelligence out there, my experiences, my talents that surpass their own.  I dumb  it down for them or ignore my own knowledge so as not to "hurt their feelings"... so as to make them feel good... and yet that's silly. 

peace and passion,
sunshine


Hey, sunshine!

When reading this it reminded me of my high school years and early 20's, when I learned not to be too smart, too flirty, too forward ... or else the guy might somehow be threatened.  I played the sweet helpless one well, I think.  Ick, nauseating to me now in my 40's!  lol 

Is this dumbing down of yourself something you do subconsciously, or do you somehow pick up on something from the D-type that seems to make you feel you should do so?  Is it silly?  Sure.  A strong man, in my general experience, is going to want a strong woman.  I've been told by more than a few Dominant men that when a strong, intelligent woman submits to them it's a wonderful challenge and very rewarding.  I'm sure there are those out there who would prefer to think they're he-gods and they know all, but that's surely not the case and not my type of man at all.  I have much to offer, and I would want my Dominant to benefit from my years of experience.  It doesn't mean in the least that I'm not submissive to him. 

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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 7:27:12 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
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hello everybody...
thank you for your responses so far. 

Needing more, it seems you understand my dilemma.  I've been going through the process and stopping myself of dumbing it down, but it's a hard, old habit to break.  I think one of the reasons I brought this up because it's MY dilemma.  Because so many people talk about their own processes and are told WRONG or BAD when they are trying to learn, I needed to bring this up as an example....

And yes, I've had the wonderful smart powerful masterly men dominate me (well one or two anyway).  With them I don't need to.  Perhaps saying I'm "nice" to people or "diplomatic" might be  more accurate?  This is not meant to be misleading, just the thinking process... where you can have two opposing views at the same time... like I love this about me and I hate this about me... where is the BALANCE?  For me, it's something I do with EVERYBODY... and don't yell or rage or fight back either... It's somehow linked (not sure how, just know it is)...

I wonder if there is something about a safety factor - the man being sure of himself and therefore I can be sure of myself and be the powerful and passionate woman I am.  Well anyway,  I'm appreciating the responses.... and looking forward to more.

peace and passion,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 7:46:24 PM   
NeedingMore220


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FWIW, sunshine, I completely get what you're saying.  I'm still learning to speak up when necessary to be sure that what *I* need happens as well as making sure that everyone else's needs are met also.  It's tough for me sometimes, and I attribute it to my 'people pleasing' hangup - something that's left over from being the middle child/peacemaker growing up, I think.  It definitely is a balance of tact and assertiveness.  There are times other people's needs should come before mine, but that's not always, and I need to remind myself of that fact - otherwise I find myself in an uncomfortable situation that is entirely of my own making, simply because I didn't open my mouth and speak! 

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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 8:19:30 PM   
Leatherist


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Now that I have had a bit more caffienne and rested......You should not have to slow down for your partner. Maybe you are making the mistake of assuming he has less characther than he actually does? Even if only subconsiously? Because you have seen it in others?


_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: Balance - 6/27/2008 9:23:11 PM   
DarkSteven


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sunshinemiss, at your age, you BETTER know some things better than I do.  Or anyone else for that matter.

A good Dom will assess your abilities and use 'em.  Anyone who is so unsure of themselves that they squash down your abilities... you've screened them out.  They're no Dom.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 6:44:15 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
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sigh.. I'm not being clear. 

My exammple is about me.  It is one of a hundred that I could talk about, but it is an example of what I'm trying to convey (poorly in fact)...

My point is more about honoring the process... The "shoulds" and "you are wrong" and "I'd never do that" is what is troubling me.  Maybe I'm trying to say can't we be a little kinder, more compassionate on the forums?  Maybe appreciate that people (OPs) are writing what they write because they are afraid or curious or angry with themselves?  My example yes, I know it is a place I'm challenged, and I work on it.  I know all that but it is also how I have kept peace in my family for years and years (not dumbing it down but by greying the vibrance of me).  But now I don't want to do that anymore, so I'm working on it. 

I'm not looking for advice on my example, more... what is up with all the black and white thinking on the boards?  Where is the understanding?

*goes to get some coffee hoping I'm making more sense this time.

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 6:48:38 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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and btw, just another example of being "softer" or something... instead of saying HEY ... PLAY NICE.  I'm saying all these sweet things and not being clear and instead trying to be diplomatic.  *laughs at myself.  Funny how deeply ingrained this kind of thing is. 
peace and passion,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 7:17:33 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Maybe I'm trying to say can't we be a little kinder, more compassionate on the forums?  Maybe appreciate that people (OPs) are writing what they write because they are afraid or curious or angry with themselves?  My example yes, I know it is a place I'm challenged, and I work on it.  I know all that but it is also how I have kept peace in my family for years and years (not dumbing it down but by greying the vibrance of me).  But now I don't want to do that anymore, so I'm working on it. 

I'm not looking for advice on my example, more... what is up with all the black and white thinking on the boards?  Where is the understanding?

*goes to get some coffee hoping I'm making more sense this time.


sunshinemiss, read what you just wrote here. You have said that for years you have kept the peace in your family, not by dumbing down, but by "greying the vibrance of me." and that you don't want to do that anymore. At the same time, you are asking all of us to do exactly what you are hoping to stop yourself from doing.

Believe me, most of us recognize the reasons people write in. Yes, some of it is to find answers, but many times, it's also to obtain validation - and many of those times, the validation they are seeking is in regards to things that other people may not see as valid. Would you have us simply nod and smile and say "oh dear, of COURSE you can/should _________ ( or can't/shouldn't, whichever the poster is asking about)" or would you have US not grey the vibrance that is us and answer as honestly as we can about the questions that are asked?

You see, while you are doing the whole Rodney King "can't we all just get along" thing, some of us have already been down your road and are done for good on the need to be all pretty and nice in our posts - just because it's pretty and nice. Some of us are shooting for honesty and forthrightness and this is what you're reading when you read those "less kind, less compassionate" posts.

There's a scene in the movie "Remember the Titans" in which Coaches Boone (Denzel Washington) and Yoast (Will Patton) are talking. Boone says to Yoast:
"You ain't doin' these kids a favor by patronizing them. You're crippling them; You're crippling them for life." (In the movie, the Yoast is all nice and kind and understanding of one of the players while Boone keeps on pushing them harder and harder to reach down inside themselves to do better.)  Boone recognizes he's a "mean cuss." But as he says, he's a "... mean cuss to everyone out there on that field. The world don't give a damn about how sensitive these kids are...", and well, like Boone on the football field, here in the forums, I'm betting that not too many worry overmuch about the sensitivity of others. If someone's out to acquire knowledge, then what they're going to get is knowledge - blunt, straightforward, sometimes more than they wished for - but they WILL get the information they were asking about. After that, it's up to them to cull out what works for them and what doesn't.

And I'd guess that's pretty much why people post the way they do. Patronization just isn't the name of the game around here - honest responses are - even if they are sometimes hurtful.

How they process it is up to them. In the meantime, I'd develop some thick skin.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 6/28/2008 7:22:56 AM >

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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 7:19:43 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
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What does "nice" mean?  Does it mean glossing over things?  My answer is "no."  I think it is more important for people to trust me, than it is for them to like me.  Being nice, to me, means showing respect and courtesy.  It's possible to be respectful and courteous, and still tell someone they are screwing up, or lying.

It's possible to be nice without getting walked all over.



_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 7:27:41 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Maybe I'm trying to say can't we be a little kinder, more compassionate on the forums?  Maybe appreciate that people (OPs) are writing what they write because they are afraid or curious or angry with themselves?  My example yes, I know it is a place I'm challenged, and I work on it.  I know all that but it is also how I have kept peace in my family for years and years (not dumbing it down but by greying the vibrance of me).  But now I don't want to do that anymore, so I'm working on it. 

I'm not looking for advice on my example, more... what is up with all the black and white thinking on the boards?  Where is the understanding?

*goes to get some coffee hoping I'm making more sense this time.


sunshinemiss, read what you just wrote here. You have said that for years you have kept the peace in your family, not by dumbing down, but by "greying the vibrance of me." and that you don't want to do that anymore. At the same time, you are asking all of us to do exactly what you are hoping to stop yourself from doing.
juliet


Juliet Sierra

Slaps my head... D'oh....

Now THAT is like a thunder strike.  Thank you.

sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 7:30:51 AM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

and btw, just another example of being "softer" or something... instead of saying HEY ... PLAY NICE.  I'm saying all these sweet things and not being clear and instead trying to be diplomatic.  *laughs at myself.  Funny how deeply ingrained this kind of thing is. 
peace and passion,
sunshine



::snort::  This made me laugh, sunshine.... I can so relate.  lol

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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 7:31:46 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

all around sassy sweetie pie waiting tables at Bounty's




Ummm... does this mean you're "the quicker picker upper?"

(just askin)

juliet

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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 9:10:19 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
Yes, it's all linked. And yes, the need to be a people pleaser to go along with things so as not to provoke an angry response is still there. It's safe with him because he doesn't lose it, he doesn't use anger or rage to manipulate the people around him. And yes, I'm stronger with others since I've been with him.

I like to say that submission is a stream within me and it needs an outlet. Without a dominant partner it was flooding all over the place, accepting bad service, not having strong enough boundaries with family etc. With a dominant partner, the stream bed is no longer blocked and he takes it all.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: Balance - 6/28/2008 10:40:58 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Honestly, it depends on the context.  I've known all my life that sometimes it's far more advantageous to be seen as far less smart and capable than you are- I have honed the art of underestimation very well.  And many doms will eat it up like there's no tomorrow.

But sometimes the gloves need to come off- and I pick and choose those scenarios very carefully, as much on my terms and my timing as possible.

It is a sad but true fact that it is generally the fem subs themselves which encourage and support this hypocrisy, which support the iconization of male doms as "real men to be listened to while us silly girls be quiet and attend around them"  It is not an easy system to break through in the heterosexual world.

Now, all of this is in reference so social groups- when it comes to talking to potential MATES, no way no how.  No manipulation at any point.  If they can't take me as I am and enjoy me, then we are not right for eachother.  This is not me being a brat or making challenges, it's just me being me. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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