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RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 2:07:23 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerinBlack

We like in a culture where we intereact more as roles to roles, than as as people to people. Because of this we often form unrealisitc expectations on others and on ourselves. We try to match ourselves up to a non-existant ideal, then feel shame and anxity when we do not add up. We are taught to be ashamed of our bodies, our dreams, and our lusts. We are not taught to value introspection or reflection. We see the admission of human doubts to be a sign of weakness. There are a lot of other causes, but I'm afraid its not too suprising that many people experiance shame/guilt just in being who they are.

Yet, I would say that it takes a greater strength to admit there are weaknesses and imperfections. That I am a work in progress, rather than a completion.

The higher a person tries to put themselves on a pedistal, the farther they have to fall when the reality of humanity rips the chair out from them.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to StrangerinBlack)

Post #: 21

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 2:18:57 PM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
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It is true of others as well. Switches are told that they are only confused. Slaves are told that it doesn't matter what they think or feel (therefore making them less than human), to just suck it up. There is a preponderance of unrealistic expectations of others often dehumanizing them.

What drew me to the lifestyle was the trust and communication, and the seemingly beautiful bond that could be built between two people. I had stars in my eyes and thought that everyone in the lifestyle must be wise, open minded, and understanding. Didn't take me long to find out that it's just a bunch of normal people - some showing wonderful traits and some being jerks; some jumping the gun; some with absolutely no sense of empathy for the other side of the top/bottom equation.

_____________________________

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Post #: 22

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 3:13:22 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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That is one of the reasons I stress we are always people, no matter if we are dom, sub or clown. People take this stuff like it is some fantasy written just for them, and when it shows reality they break down. I am always me, in or out of bdsm. A relationship, even one which involves abdicating power or taking it, is still a relationship.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 23

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 3:29:23 PM

MasterHermes

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Rather than, what I thought would seem like nailing that person on their post, I wanted to bring this here and get some general consensus. Can somebody, please, tell Me where we get all of these ridiculous, pre-conceived notions that somewhere, we stop being people? Where is it written, that a Master might not ever have doubt in himself? Whoever came up with the idea that a Mistress should never cry, or be hurt by emotion? How did some of the (and I'm stealing this term from someone else) BDSMBS (that's BDSM bullsh*t for those who can't figure it out) ever come into play so strongly that now we seem to accept it without question? Where in the hell did these myths ever come from?

They are partially coming from the images Doms create for themselves. It looks so easy to play that comic book super hero who never hurts, gets emotional, gets sick and cries , he has infinite amount of energy and can solve all the problems. Of course life doesn't go that way and that image bites people in the ass later on.

They are partially coming from our childhood dreams that parents or whoever is the authority never makes mistakes. As we grow up we learn its not true and face with a huge disappointment. Some submissive keep searching for this hero who will lead them and protect them and will always be perfect no matter what. Of course every time they cant find it , it turns into an even bigger disappointment.

It is also coming from the ego. This community thing, this "lifestyle" thing, desire of being part of something , it all feeds the ego. Its not only dominants having distended ego. Submissive ego is also blown up. Look at that, she is a slave but she is soo proud you would think she actually is the queen. A normal vanilla relationship usually doesn't turn into a big ego boost for couples but a BDSM relationship makes people feel so special. Of course when Dom does something to ruin its perfection submissive ego also gets hurt. She is facing with the truth there is nothing special about BDSM and its still just a relationship and she is still no more important than yesterday.

When people , dom or sub , can accept BDSM neither adds nor subtract anything from them , they will come back to earth and start living as a human again. The myths you are talking about will stay as ancient myths people tell each other for describing confused ages.

Be Well
Hermes

< Message edited by MasterHermes -- 6/29/2008 3:31:55 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 24

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 5:07:08 PM

Lumus

Posts: 5968
Joined: 9/16/2007
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OP: Leaders are not people. They are a physical vessel upon which ideals are imprinted by their followers.

Death is lighter than a feather, duty is heavier than a mountain. ~ Robert Jordan

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<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 25

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 5:11:33 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I didn't give up My humanity just to be doing this. And whatever version of 'this' that you are doing doesn't mean that you have to either. There are even some people out there who will respect you more if you don't.

I just did...respect you a very great deal more for raising this issue.
Too much arrogance, too much back patting, too much conformity of a very real fundamentalist behavioural approach, too much I'm alright jack'jill and in my perfectly functioning lifestyle for my liking hrere.
There is a function of posting here to inform yes. I like a know-it-all (especially one who has his hands around my neck) but I post when I am in turmoil and I try to respond supportively to others when I feel they post here in turmoil too.
Yes: thank you. A great deal more respect to you for making it feel safe to be human here.
Prin x

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 26

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 6:24:37 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Yet, I would say that it takes a greater strength to admit there are weaknesses and imperfections. That I am a work in progress, rather than a completion.

The higher a person tries to put themselves on a pedistal, the farther they have to fall when the reality of humanity rips the chair out from them.

Applauds LP both for Her OP and this post. I'm smiling because I wrote something along these lines to You on the other side just today before getting to the boards! I agree it takes much more strength to be "weak" in terms of being open and revealing what is going on inside. Plastering a mask over it all is the cop out. And in another thread, someone said how much tougher it is for men in our western societies ... agree to that too in general. It's a rare man (especially a Dominant one) who is OK with crying, showing His emotions fully and admitting His mistakes.

And I have said for years that I don't want to be put on a pedestal for anything I do well or for how I am. Because it's bloody lonely up there and there's only one way down ... falling! Neither of which appeal to Me!

Let's all be real human beings as well as being D or s! (or both ;-)
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 27

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 6:50:38 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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The whole problem with thinking your dom/me is perfect and deserves to be worshipped, or the dom/mes thinking they deserve this, is that eventually they will fall down and be human. They'll make boneheaded mistakes that make them want to crawl into the woodwork to hide. Which is why the better relationships allow the subs to say "are you kidding? that's the lamest idea I've ever heard". Sometimes you need a bitchslap to make you see reality, smart dom/mes and subs know this and plan for it. Dumb ones get themselves into trouble

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

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(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 28

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 6:58:06 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Maybe they like you better, LP!

I am in complete agreement with you, I have no idea where the notion that dominants have to be perfect little problem solvers who are up to any challenge with no help whatsoever from anyone. And Lally, how is it "weak" to openly discuss a doubt or issue with what I would hope is a peer group? Is it "weak" if someone stands up in a church meeting to talk?

I am going to go with this answer.
I get kicked in the ass if I talk about much more than the weather here.
So, I rather talk about politics and the weather, than give people
here a field day.
Most of us know,if you aren't in the cool kids club or popular, you
can get grilled over the coals.

I don't blame the poster for hiding his identity.
I am thinking he feels people will think less of him, and he is
probably correct.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/29/2008 7:07:55 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 29

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 7:09:52 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I wouldn't dare for a second think that I'm in the 'cool kids' club, but I do hear what you're saying.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 30

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 7:13:18 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I wouldn't dare for a second think that I'm in the 'cool kids' club, but I do hear what you're saying.

You may not be in it, but you sure as hell know it, if you are NOT in it.
lol

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 31

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 7:21:44 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

It's just a tired double standard. We tend to cast female subs in the role of fragile victims-who must be protected by supermen called "dominants". Any deviation from the stereotype results in a state of emotional melt down insecurity from a certain proportion of the same fem sub population. Who would not react in that manner if it didn't hit a pretty sensitive nerve. (I may need a crutch, I may actually be weak, I may want to be codependent-I just can't admit it, it would mean I really am inferior.)

Constrasted with male subs, who are basically seen as a resource to be used-and who are advised to suck it up and deal with it. I really just find it amusing-especially when you just point to the ones having an implosion-and tell them-The Dom can do what he wants-right?

"So suck it up and DEAL with it-you weak assed whiner."

At which time the braying about gifts and strength comes pouring out like vomit.

It's all about a harlequin romance fantasy that insists on being fullfilled-not about the reality of having to deal with actual human beings-it's beyond amusing.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/29/2008 7:22:01 PM >

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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Post #: 32

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 7:29:40 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
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From: Kentucky
Status: offline

People is people.
Sometimes Honey Master is right.
~~most of the time~~ I mean sometimes, I am.

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~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 33

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 7:48:19 PM

TheGaggingWh0re

Posts: 222
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline

WOAH! I must have felt your brain waves hit me, because since my last post I've been pondering that same question.

Last night my owner and I were on cam in the chatrooms and we were goofing around. Well, my Owner likes to smack me around or, as we call it, give a "show" to those who choose to view our cam, though it is usually brief and ends up with me coming back into the cam's view with a giggle. I had missed who said it during the course of the chat, but apparently someone called our playing "fake play". My owner wouldn't let me retort in the manner I wished to, but I'm still a little sore over it. Who the fuck gets to decide if my "play" is fake or not? Just because I have a habit of blocking smacks (something he's actually working on...), or giggling when he pulls me hair, or coming back grinning like a doofus after he chokes me, or anything that is common to us, I'm somehow fake.

You're right. There is no procedure or standard protocol that says we all must function within rigid guidelines to be who we claim to be.

Call it "not your style", but don't ever fucking insult someone and call a legitimate and very loving couple "fake".

....Cool. I managed to agree with you and rant all in one post!

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 34

RE: Where was it written? - 6/29/2008 8:18:20 PM

WarriorsGirl

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline

Some recent quotes to me from Sir:

"Do I get everything right? I have no illusions of that."'
"I don't want to disappoint you. I want you to be fulfilled."
"I am secure enough to openly say that I sometimes fear leaving you unsatisfied."

Sounds human to me. And I respect him and want him all the more for it.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 35

RE: Where was it written? - 6/30/2008 2:25:17 AM

Ialdabaoth

Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline

Hrm. I have some pretty close personal experience on all this, having very recently broken up with a girl of 7 years - and I'm still recovering emotionally and psychologically. From within myself, here's some things I've observed:

1. D/s ties into a lot of base human nature, which is at heart base primate nature, which is all about social hierarchy. People NEED to see that the person in charge is infallable. We instinctually attack anyone who acts like they want control, but shows any hint of weakness. We also instinctually attack anyone who looks like they might attack someone who has control that we want to follow. This creates stable social groups, at the cost of completely devastating anyone who shows even a shred of emotional authenticity.

2. No one likes to be around someone who's riddled with feelings of doubt and depression. Knowing that no one wants to be around you tends to reinforce feelings of doubt and depression. People are strange when you're a stranger, and faces look ugly when you're alone.

3. It doesn't matter how cool, how skilled, how self-aware, or how honest you are. You have to be able to project confidence and the right kind of machismo or you just won't "sell". And selling is everything. It's even worse if you aren't nearly as cool, skilled, self-aware or honest as you think you are.

(in reply to WarriorsGirl)

Post #: 36

RE: Where was it written? - 6/30/2008 6:25:29 AM

taintedgypsy

Posts: 228
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline

UberDom = keep walking hope he did not notice you ... consider pepper spray if he does

SuperDom = one night stand if anything

HumanDom = starts with a cuppa and a chat with a little hope for a foundation that will lead to freindship or more.

Those who do not value the humanity in there prospective or current significant other are not living in reality and sooner or later it will bite them on the arse.

_____________________________

..."Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... It is about learning to dance in the rain."

Equal Opportunity Slut (Yeah ... best of both worlds lol)

warm smiles to all

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

Post #: 37

RE: Where was it written? - 6/30/2008 11:41:42 AM

lally3

Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

trouble is there are some vicious types around who do spot a weakness and then happily tear at it - which then makes people scared to bare their chest, which in of itself is quite weak, when you think about it, but if your feeling a tad sensitive about something the last thing you want is to be made to feel even crappier by people who think its fun to wear away at an open wound.

bugs me a bit. its like getting hooted at for jumping into a brief gap of solid traffic - like they never have ever. its that holier than thou approach to everything and everyone -

we all get sensitive, we all get it wrong and we're all allowed to.

I'm not going to deny that, and I have absolutely seen it happen. I hope you'll understand that I'm not debating that point.

Still, in these last few days/weeks, I've poured out some (for Me) very heart wrenching stuff that has been received by the posters of CM really well. I think it fair to let people know it isn't always the feeding frenzy they expect.

.. and i agree, the majority of people here are really full on great people and i totally rate their opinions and advice. so many though almost begin their posts with the phrase, im probably going to be flamed for this... which is a shame.

it is a form of 'peer' pressure, this thing about fitting into a tight criteria of perfection, percieved by.. whoever, us i spose.

i do think that people push aside what they have learned through life and think that for some reason the rules change the minute they walk through the bdsm gates - they think you have to fit into the criteria of your type or be deemed a mitigated failure by others and worse perhaps, by yourself.

i think it is the single most misleading thing. and its probably fair to say alot of abuse comes from this fragile misguidance too.

and rightfully, there are places like this to help people through and people like you LadyPact who try to understand.

xx

_____________________________

even doves have pride (Prince)

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 38

RE: Where was it written? - 6/30/2008 3:37:40 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

Brilliant...Amen!

It's easy to posture on the internet...it's easy to say "I'm the all pleasing, all knowing, never misbehaved super-sub." It's keystrokes and it's easy.

It's much harder to really connect, to say "You know, shit if I know what to do now..."

You aren't a persona, and neither am I. And most of the people I respect here, are real people too. I get very suspect of people who post the pat answers as if life were really 'pat'.

Thanks for posting this, I think it's worth thinking about and remembering.

PL

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 39

RE: Where was it written? - 6/30/2008 4:37:36 PM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

I read the post you're refering to and I actually wondered something similar. My heart went out to the poster, as I too have recently been struggling with my all too human self... luckily, I'm with someone who's willing to weather the struggling with me.

I don't know why people have amazingly unreal expectations of dominants, but I do notice it -- here particularly -- I don't see it out in real life.

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 40

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