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Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 2:38:26 PM   
Wolfsrealm


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		Realisticly speaking, in what situations do your sub or slave show you any form of attitude?

I'm not referring to flat out disobediance, just the moments when they have a tone that you don't like or show that they don't want to follow an order/task.

-Master Damien


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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 2:45:27 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		It can happen at any time, and in almost any situation. Even in cases where they've been completely yielding before, you can have a day when everything goes ass-up, and the servant develops "attitudinal insufficiency". The individual relationship (and the way the day has gone for the dominant) really determines what constitutes "showing attitude" and what is the normal, everyday interaction in that dynamic.

We're heavily protocol-oriented, so we have a low tolerance for mouthiness, showing attitude, and general passive-aggressiveness or acting-out... but I know a number of dominants who -like- their mouthy, back-talking subs... as long as, in the end, the sub does what he or she is told -most- of the time... and a few of them actually phrase things in a way that is pretty much guaranteed (in their relationship) to spark an argument from the sub... so it really is completely up to the relationship.

Firestorm

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 2:54:17 PM   
MetalCouple


Posts: 13
Joined: 6/26/2008
Status: offline 		Slaves dont have attitude per se. They have a perceived sense of self that shows itself from attitude.

Remember that the EGO will protect itself no matter what and attitude is a form of an attempt to protect.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 2:57:56 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MetalCouple

Slaves dont have attitude per se. They have a perceived sense of self that shows itself from attitude.

Remember that the EGO will protect itself no matter what and attitude is a form of an attempt to protect.



i dont have an attitude? ... wow ... I never knew that ..

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 3:01:27 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Sleep deprivation. If I don't get enough sleep I do get bitchy. Punishing me for having sleep problems is about as effective as punishing me for catching a cold. Making me get a half hour nap works better. Wish a half hour nap would cure the common cold, though.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 3:03:43 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MetalCouple

Slaves dont have attitude per se. They have a perceived sense of self that shows itself from attitude.


says who?  which all-knowing, one-way twuism book are you getting this from?

i know i have an attitude and it comes in many shapes and forms depending on my mood. i can be nice and sweet as i want to be to blunt and downright rude. my attitude is what makes me human and have a personality ...just like you.

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 6/29/2008 3:04:40 PM >

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 3:23:01 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		showing attitude can happen at at point of any day, what it is symbolizes is a breakdown in communication, a breaking of trust and a breaking of agreements (unless that is part of the agreements)

i would hope that a Dom in that situation would take steps to remedy it, that go beyond a reprimand, because something is brewing, that they should know about.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 3:31:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

showing attitude can happen at at point of any day, what it is symbolizes is a breakdown in communication, a breaking of trust and a breaking of agreements (unless that is part of the agreements)

i would hope that a Dom in that situation would take steps to remedy it, that go beyond a reprimand, because something is brewing, that they should know about.


And sometimes it's a response to other factors such as financial stress, emotional stress or illness. But you're spot on that the solution isn't punishment, but finding out what's really going on.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 3:36:31 PM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline 		I have an attitude on a regular basis. When it bothers him, I know it and adjust it.
If I didn't, he'd know good and well that I was play-acting, which never works for more than an evening or so.
It works for us.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 3:50:18 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Depends on the circumstance.  There can be good attitudes you know.  And since my partner so often wants to make me happy, I know when he DOES show a negative attitude that I really need to pay attention cuz something's going wrong here.

So many doms are so quick to immediately lash out at what they don't like in the moment- rather than stopping and thinking "how did we get here?  I'm not doing my job as well as I could if I not only have a misbehaving sub on my hands but didn't even see it coming."

Sometimes showing attitude is the BEST way to get some perspective in me and recognize what's going on- my partner is often rewarded and praised for his bravery and judgement in doing so.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 3:54:49 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MetalCouple

Slaves dont have attitude per se. They have a perceived sense of self that shows itself from attitude.

Remember that the EGO will protect itself no matter what and attitude is a form of an attempt to protect.



A giant 'Huh'?

So if someone (oh lets call her Jane. Jane Jane the slave), Jane is a slave she has no attitude simply by virtue of her being a slave?

Does poor Jane have emotions?
How about thoughts?

Of course we know that Jane has an eating disorder, perhaps it is because she is not permitted to have an attitude and overcompensates via food?

Oh that was almost snarky!
(I think. I was going for snarky but its hard to tell if I managed it. I'm only an s-type and we tend to not have attitudes yanno)


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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 4:02:27 PM   
chickpea


Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfsrealm

Realisticly speaking, in what situations do your sub or slave show you any form of attitude?

I'm not referring to flat out disobediance, just the moments when they have a tone that you don't like or show that they don't want to follow an order/task.

-Master Damien



It's okay if:
- If the Master hasn't specifically requested no attitude.
- As a way for the Master to gauge the sub's opinion on the order, for future reference...and in the situation where the sub does not need to follow the order unless the sub likes it.
- If it doesn't interfere with the sub following the order.
- To add variety to the relationship, besides the usual "doormat" response.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 4:03:44 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Depends on the circumstance.  There can be good attitudes you know.  And since my partner so often wants to make me happy, I know when he DOES show a negative attitude that I really need to pay attention cuz something's going wrong here.

So many doms are so quick to immediately lash out at what they don't like in the moment- rather than stopping and thinking "how did we get here?  I'm not doing my job as well as I could if I not only have a misbehaving sub on my hands but didn't even see it coming."

Sometimes showing attitude is the BEST way to get some perspective in me and recognize what's going on- my partner is often rewarded and praised for his bravery and judgement in doing so.


I would have to disagree with you here, just a little, LuckyAlbatross. It's been my experience that sometimes, attitude -can- come on without any warning, and can have -nothing- to do with the relationship between the particular dominant and submissive, except that the dominant was the first person available to vent on.

I would also say that it may have nothing to do with the dominant doing a poor job -- in fact, it may be just the opposite, in that the servant may be showing attitude there because the kettle had been on the boil all day, but being home with the dominant was the first place the servant felt safe in exploding -- in full knowledge that hir explosion would be contained and that xhe would not have to deal with fallout that could potentially damage other areas of hir life through the meltdown.

We all handle stress and our own/other people's behavior so differently, and have such different expectations (and are variably clear about what, exactly, our expectations are -- not everyone is great about expressing exactly what xhe considers 'appropriate' attitudes). It simply isn't possible to say "every case of showing attitude means -this-.

Firestorm

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 4:07:23 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Calla- absolutely.  Sometimes shit just happens.  But I find almost always there's SOME trigger or combination of triggers which could have been noted and dealt with to eliminate things coming to that point.  Once attitude happens, the question should not be "how do I beat her down so she knows never to do that again?" but should be "How did we get here and how can we make sure damage is controlled and that it never happens again and feel MORE secure together?"

It's not about blame, it's about using what life throws at you to become stronger together, rather than letting it make you feel more adrift.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 4:55:51 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: MetalCouple

Slaves dont have attitude per se. They have a perceived sense of self that shows itself from attitude.

Remember that the EGO will protect itself no matter what and attitude is a form of an attempt to protect.



A giant 'Huh'?

So if someone (oh lets call her Jane. Jane Jane the slave), Jane is a slave she has no attitude simply by virtue of her being a slave?

Does poor Jane have emotions?
How about thoughts?

Of course we know that Jane has an eating disorder, perhaps it is because she is not permitted to have an attitude and overcompensates via food?

Oh that was almost snarky!
(I think. I was going for snarky but its hard to tell if I managed it. I'm only an s-type and we tend to not have attitudes yanno)




I for one think you did an excellent job being snarky camille..... just remember to smile sweetly and stare off into space while being snarky, or people might think you have an attitude or something very unslavelike.  

(in reply to camille65)
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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 5:00:42 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfsrealm

Realisticly speaking, in what situations do your sub or slave show you any form of attitude?

I'm not referring to flat out disobediance, just the moments when they have a tone that you don't like or show that they don't want to follow an order/task.

-Master Damien



The only times I cop an attitude (ohboy that sounded so pop-psych 1970's) is when I am utterly confused or feel defensive about something that I haven't become fully aware of.
It doesn't happen very often but the few times it has it precipitates a discussion to find out why it is happening then it moves into how do I change it into something positive that I can learn from.

Discipline or punishment has never been used in circumstances like that with us.


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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 5:20:32 PM   
lostgirl83


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I have an attitude occasionally just because Im so good otherwise, there would be nothing to punish me for :D

Seriously... I agree with some of the other posts, lack of sleep, emotional stress, illness... all of those things can cause me to be a bitch in a bad way.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/29/2008 5:23:09 PM   
Lumus


Posts: 5968
Joined: 9/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfsrealm

Realisticly speaking, in what situations do your sub or slave show you any form of attitude?

I'm not referring to flat out disobediance, just the moments when they have a tone that you don't like or show that they don't want to follow an order/task.

-Master Damien


Realistically?  I experience her negative attitude when someone rubs her the wrong way, which has yet to be me.  I experience her positive attitude when she finds something new she never expected.

Mind you, I don't think I ever told her about the tin snips...



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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/30/2008 7:38:06 PM   
Spikeisbad


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline 		My friend and I have discussed the 'attitude' we've named it 'spike'. We aren't really into D/S or master slave, we just enjoy a nice flogging/spanking. The attitude shows up for us when you're tied down (or up) and getting a nice flogging and the little voice in your head is yelling YELLOW but Spike takes control, looks over your shoulder and says "are you using your weak arm?" or "you hit like a girl" and the ever popular 'beige' while spike is saying all of this your small voice is quaking in the corner wondering why spike won't shut up.

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RE: Showing Attitude - 6/30/2008 7:45:19 PM   
TheGaggingWh0re


Posts: 222
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline 		Heh....funny this topic should be here now considering I just got a whoopin' for giving a bad tone of voice.
I read the question out loud and my owner said, "When you are either PMSing or hungry is when you get a pissy tone with me."
I was hungry earlier D:

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