Battle for submission

Battle for submission (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

mistoferin -> Battle for submission (6/30/2008 6:26:36 AM)
Over the years I've heard countless submissives and recently seen several instances of such on the boards where they say things like "I am a strong submissive and I need a really strong dominant to TAKE control". Some will say that they need a dominant who can outlast or be strong enough to squash their resistance. Some want a dominant who can outthink them and thereby outsmart them into submission. Some will say that their willful refusal is a test of their dominant's power. Some will go so far as to say that if their dominant fails such a test and they are the ones to "win out' in the end, it clearly indicates that the dominant is either not really a dominant or is too weak of one for them. I fail to see where submissiveness comes into those scenarios. That's not being dominated...that's being coerced. That's not submission...that's losing a battle. D/s and M/s relationships should not be battlegrounds where one has to fight to win or lose. No one should have to fight for or have to take your submission. If you are a submissive and your submission is what fulfills you, why on earth would you need someone to fight you to get it from you? It should be something that comes from you willingly....out of respect, out of trust, out of joy, out of your own need to surrender...but not because someone coerced it from you, battled you for it, outsmarted you, threatened you into it, placated, bribed or bartered with you to get it. That's not submission...that's being the loser of the battle....and there shouldn't have had to be a battle in the first place.

nhite -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 6:58:35 AM)
i have a few theories at least for how it applies to me so far... first off there are times when i enjoy the 'struggle' in me. something like he says he is going to make me cum, i say no but my body absolutely says yes and gets that much closer to having it happen. i want to be taken to that point where my surrender is inevitable for me. i think some of my intial defiances with someone new is a way of 'measuring' them. it sounds so clunky put into words but its a way of figuring out compatiblity i guess. i've likened it to a combination lock. what surprises the hell out of me is that i dont consciously decide about being submissive. what i've experienced so far is that when someone triggers the combination it just happens and i dont even feel it taking place -- which scares the hell out of me

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:17:50 AM)
I always go by the saying "it is a power exchange not a power struggle". I do not feel like someone has to fight my submission out of me. It is just me and I give it willingly. It is who I am and I do not need the drama of battling it out. I just want to be happy being me and giving what I can to Master. I don't know why people want to make it all dramatic.

MsValentine -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:21:28 AM)
A beautiful post. I agree entirely. To my way of thinking a sub either submits to me willingly and with a desire to be obedient or they have to go and find someone with brute force to 'make' them submit. I will not do that. Battling a sub to make them submit doesn't make you strong or dominant. It makes you someone who likes a fight. I can see it might be alluring for particularly fem subs looking for a Dom to play hard to get. Maybe it is what they really want, to be ravished, taken etc but that is not being submissive. You get what you ask for, I guess. A Dom like that may never give way on anything. He is used to getting his way at all costs. If you say to someone force me to submit, that will be their habit and there may come a day when you badly need a different approach but find he knows no other way. You have got what you asked for. A fighter. Mind you, didn't that sub still really give her submission? She presumably talked to the guy, made arrangements to meet, was open about all her needs and desires. So, does someone really 'take' submission, when it has to have been offered, even to get to the point of meeting?

pompeii -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:22:06 AM)
Personally, I prefer submissive from the start. Obedient. I don't care to "win" the fight for her submissiveness. It needs to be there, from the start.

metalmiss -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:23:01 AM)
i agree 100% mistoferin.. i submit because i am submissive & His presence in my life compels me to act upon that. i have never understood those out there who claim to be submissive but with "make me" in the small print. In my Dynamic, challenging His authority to the level of a point blank refusal would land me in deep trouble, something that i not only don't want, but it also isn't something that i would naturally look to do. It's not my place to "test" Him, nor would i wish to.. i am His slave because i have trust and confidence in Him. Sure i love resistance play from time to time, and i enjoy the fact that He can overpower me easily.. But once upon a time the struggling and fighting you describe was something i sought myself in a Dominant, i wanted somebody to force that submission from me.. Eventually i matured enough to look beyond that & realised exactly what you are saying here. Real submission isn't about fighting or struggling, having that control forced upon you.. Its about finding that spark and willfully submitting because it feels right.

viola12 -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:27:19 AM)
I label people differently, to me a submissive is someone who has that natural desire and wants to submit. A slave can be doing it for any number of reasons, coersion included. And a bottom can be pretty much anything including a person who is not submissive at all but just likes to scene or have corporal punishment applied to them. This is only my little method and it helps me separate different types of folks. Personally I don't have that natural tendency I don't need to fight someone all day long but I do need to know that there are repercussions for not behaving and that there is some form of actual control of that person over me not just me willingly rolling over. Perhaps it is childhood instilled Catholic guilt that does that I don't know. But either way I just don't enjoy submitting just for the sake of it. To each their own and I have no problem with people who do but it's just not for me :) Vi

MissIsis -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:28:34 AM)
I won't fight with a submissive to win their submission. Either they want this lifestyle or they don't. If I have to fight them for it, they have not shown me that they want this with all their heart. I don't need that kind of drama in my life. I show them the door.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:29:36 AM)
I agree erin. I know a few women who want that scenario....... and they are alone. Some bounce from man to man because no one wants to put up with their egotistical, drama queen b.s. Either you want to work together towards a mutually fulfilling D/s relationship, or you don't.

ThundersCry -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:35:10 AM)
Its frustrating to say the...least... Its fear... Its not submission they fight...its the fear of...surrendering...

fluffyswitch -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:45:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThundersCry Its frustrating to say the...least... Its fear... Its not submission they fight...its the fear of...surrendering... i agree entirely. for me it wasn't so much that i didn't want submission, i was afraid to submit. i didn't want to become fluffy, someone's sub. i wanted to be, flufy. as in i wanted to remain myself and i kept hearing all this stuff about how a sub is a sub, their master's pet and nothing more. it's an attitude i still don't subcribe to. it took me a long time to find someone i was comfortable being submissive to, and there are still times when the fear flares up. for me at least it's not so much wanting someone to fight me as wanting to make sure that i'm not going to loose my humanity with you. He told me as much awhile ago--it's not that i'm not submissive i'm afraid of that label, submissive. now i embrace it but it took awhile. not sure if that's what the OP was really getting at, i just woke up lol. so sorry if i'm completely missing the point.

MansStrength -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:50:08 AM)
I think most submissives / slaves will tell you that there is a thrill sometimes to being dominated when they are not submissive by choice or feeling submissive at the time, other times its softer and a pleasure for them to plan and demonstrate their submission. It isn’t always about sex. Domination can affect them emotionally, many times giving them a sense of caring and protection. I can’t count how many vanilla women in relationships have had enjoyed aspects of dominance, from simply hair pulling to spanking with a few loving being slapped across the face, but who would never consider themselves submissives. The feelings those things evoke I imagine are complex genetic markers or childhood feelings of a father caring and disciplining or just simple male dominance and confidence that they find attractive. Submissives are who they are, either made or birthed. In either case Its the samse for a Dominant male. He is simply who he is. Brats can be a pain in the ass, but it should be a pain in their ass, not yours. Obedience first, obedience last, but in the end-obedience. If she is that much trouble her last act of obedience will be leaving, as I tell her to leave my house. I hate brats. I like peace in my house. I don’t like constant strife. Setting up a schedule for her and a list of behaviors will tell you straight away if she is going to submit. If she doesn’t, it’s easy to determine if she’s stupid, but sweet, unfocused, but intelligent and needs help, or just plain obstinate. Everybodies different. There is submission in love, there is just a sexual fling, there may be, a hopeful life long committment. How we each get there can be interesting, but in the end, you decide if she will either obey or be out the door. That choice is not hers. One last thing, the cum thing just happened to me again this weekend. She was angry that I chose to shave her when it was conveniant for me-she had a list of plans. She got excited while being shaved though, but didn’t want to take the time to cum. She resisted as I masturbated her and said she was not going to allow herself to cum and pushed my hands away. She's not allowed to raise her hands to me, so I made her spread her lips instead, then I pussy whipped her. One minute later with lips spread, clit exposed and being slapped she decided to submit..

KatyLied -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:50:33 AM)
I don't want to have to fight. I want to be inspired. I want to be with someone who provides an environment in which I want to submit. This can happen in a variety of ways.

DesFIP -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:53:18 AM)
I think it's normal to do some testing in the beginning. Just to see if they walk the walk or only talk the talk. It's easy for a guy to say he is dominant and has all these rules, but if he doesn't notice when you don't follow them then he isn't a good dominant in my book. However once that initial phase is over, you submit or you don't. If you need force play, then you should have explained it up front and hopefully you get that from play scenarios, not by refusing to get him coffee when he was up all night finishing a major project. Being compelled to do everything must take a huge amount of time and energy from the dom, more than most doms are willing to do. They don't want to wrestle about making dinner at the end of a long day, they just want it on the table like always.

Leatherist -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:53:54 AM)
Testing comes from fear and arrogance.

julietsierra -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:55:49 AM)
ok... this will surely earn me the ire of a lot of folks.. I'm one of those who said "I want a dominant who can outthink me." However, it's not about him being able to "outsmart" me into submission. It's about me not being able to manipulate him. I submit because it's something I want to do with him. At the same time, I will also admit to struggling against the ability to manipulate. In fact, as much as I may dislike this about me, if I can manipulate someone into doing what I want (and I'm VERY good at that), then who is controlling whom? I wanted and looked for someone I couldn't do that to. The person I found just does NOT budge. He appears very easy going, and he can be. At the same time, he has his way of doing things and that's that. I love and appreciate that about him. You see, with nearly everyone else I ever seriously considered, I could "discuss" my way out of nearly everything. Sometimes, I did it jokingly. Sometimes I did it from a more serious place. But, all the time, if I wanted, I could take whatever stance was the opposite and convince someone that that was the better way to go. If I didn't do that, then it was because I was enjoying what was happening. I knew though that where I wanted to go would entail me doing things I wasn't particularly looking forward to. I wanted it set up so that I couldn't bargain my way out of anything. I didn't do this to get someone to overpower me. In fact, if they handled it that way, then that too wouldn't have worked. The person I eventually came to know, love, serve and obey unflinchingly was off-hand. He never has ever made a big deal about anything. He's just said "no" in that low-key way he has of talking and that was that. Once a no was heard, I never heard anything else beyond that. (ie.: the nearly 6 years and counting "no" I received in answer to a request to masturbate. Over the years, I've asked, begged, beguiled and gently connived to get a "yes" to come out of his mouth.. The longest response he's ever given me with regard to this has been "j___, if I said yes, you KNOW you'd be disappointed. Do you really want me to say yes?" All I could do is shake my head and thank my lucky stars I'd found someone who truly understood. Now days, he doesn't even bother to answer when in an odd moment, I'll ask again. If you can't tell from the general length of my responses, I like discourse. I ENJOY talking about difficult subjects in great detail. I am thrilled when I find someone I can do this with. After years of living with someone (my ex) and having there be an ever-growing list of topics we had to not discuss because we were so opposed to each other, I wanted someone I could have these conversations with. That was important to me. I knew I wanted someone who was able to do that. That meant that I really DID have to do the whole bantering thing back and forth. I wanted to see how that person handled stress and how well he could take a stance, develop it and converse without resorting to anger driven accusations and insults. So yes, I suppose I'm one of those folks you talk about. Although, while I don't fight him in order to be "bested." I do think he's the best person I've ever met... and if it took all that to be sure of this before I became emotionally invested in him, then well... that's how I was going to handle things. As far as the physical "besting" goes...That's not a part of who I am - so I don't do it. And frankly, like you, I don't get it either. juliet

VeryMercurial -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:57:17 AM)
Wonderful post and very well written. I don't want to fight to gain control of a submissive. If I have to force you to submit, you are certainly not the submissive for me.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:58:05 AM)
I'm not interested in the fight. If someone doesn't want to submit to me, that's fine, I am not everyone's dominant, and they are welcome to move on. I love a takedown scene, sure. But that's a scene. Day to day, I am not interested in butting heads. I respect the struggle to submit, but it is an internal struggle, not one that should be waved in the dominant's face as a challenge. Brought out, it is a chance to communicate more intimately and strengthen the bond between dominant and submissive.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 7:58:46 AM)
I couldn't agree with you more, erin...and have said so on these boards before. I've reached the point in my life where I don't want to have to "earn" your submission when what that means is me jumping through hoops while you sit back and decide if I have done so properly before showing me one ounce of submission. Fuck that. I know what I am and who I am. I understand the idea of courtship and showing a submissive what and who I am as a dominant but if your submissive chord does not respond to my dominant pluck, then I am not going to try and bring in a bigger pick to play you with.

fluffyswitch -> RE: Battle for submission (6/30/2008 8:00:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant . I understand the idea of courtship and showing a submissive what and who I am as a dominant but if your submissive chord does not respond to my dominant pluck, then I am not going to try and bring in a bigger pick to play you with. this is the part that i don't understand with people who directly challenge-- i wouldn't want you to get a bigger pick. why would i waste my time with a dominant that doesn't work with me? all that having to engage in that sort of manipulation does for me is piss me off. but maybe it's the switch in me, i'm not sure.

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875