RE: California's answer to capital punishment?

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/3/2008 12:49:34 AM

Bethnai

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Thadius, there is a lot more going on besides parenting. A lot. The 12 year old is generally ....still accepted into the school. You can do more time for not going to school, and that is telling in our society. Its beyond parenting. I'm willing to do it, providing your willing to listen. I would even like to shoot you some links on the other side, given time, that I won't post here. I'm just sayin' hear me out. I don't care if it changes your mind your not.

DA, I never said otherwise. My experience is very different.

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/3/2008 1:08:19 AM

Thadius

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Feel free to send them... I am always interested in reading. I grew up on the southside of Chicago, within sniper range of the Robert Taylor homes, so I do understand some of the other social, economic, and peer pressure reasons the 12 year olds are out there. I also know of a few that were able to come out of those same circumstances and achieve everything they set their minds to. Which tends to sway my opinion towards the merits of the individual compared to the victim of circumstances arguements.

Again, I would be glad to read the links and material you want to send.

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/3/2008 1:23:46 AM

Bethnai

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We are exactly in the same neighborhood, then. It's not like Gary/Hammond/EC had it going on prior to the exodus. And the frigging Latin Kings out here are not even recognized by Chicago. It's shit. This is shit.

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/3/2008 1:32:05 AM

Vendaval

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Hello Nosathro, good to see you posting again.

A main reason I think this approach will be problematic is becasue California already is in a budget crises and we have a serious over-crowding problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us/27prisons.html?ex=1335326400&en=2445810c9c45309e&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Having worked inside the California Prisons system I would be hard pressed to say this would work. Most Southern Prisons White and Latin Gangs have teamed up against Black Gangs and in the in the North White and Black Gangs are against Latin Gangs. Oh last I heard the Men's Prison at Chino has been on lock down..in fact most California Prisons are on lock down.

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/3/2008 6:20:05 AM

sub4hire

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I imagine in the end it will help more than it hurts. Reason being it has helped in other states. People don't like change.
So, they pretty much have to do their couple of months of complaining..before they settle into the new routine.
Never to admit how wrong they were to begin with when they were complaining in the first place.

It would be nice if people could just get along then these things wouldn't be necessary at all. Although I do know the prison population and it probably is not going to happen.

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/3/2008 7:17:17 PM

candystripper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Here's some quick background info... http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114290971697503763-c_Bc66XQDv_Y3oGhmny49FBuPHc_20070321.html?mod=blogs

Are the plans to desegregate the prisons in California going to lead to more deaths and violence in the already violent system? The Californian prisons are roughly split into thirds amongst hispanics, blacks, and whites, with a slightly higher number of hispanics. This is also how the many gangs are broken down, at least in the prisons, based on race. California was supposed to start desegregating the inmate populations yesterday, starting at a couple of lower security facilities, and slowly ramping it up to every prison and jail in the system. This was put on hold to allow the guards union to better understand what the new policy actually entails.

I was just wondering what the first week of this policy in the "crazier" places are going to be like... imagine a new black inmate being introduced to his AB cellmate, or the new white inmate being moved into the cell of a member of the Black Guerilla Family. How many deaths or injuries are going to come about because of these changes in policy? Only time will tell.

The inmates are uneasy, the guards are uneasy, and well I am simply hoping that there will be some hidden cameras placed throughout facilities like Chino. I would love to hear what others think about this subject.

I wish you well,
Thadius

The correctional system in virtually every state is broken almost beyond repair.

* Inmate populations very often exceed the maximum level for which the facility was designed.

* Correctional officers are sometimes ill-trained and ill-paid.

* Correctional facilities are now acknowledged as major gang recruiting opportunities.

* 'Correctional' constitutes a major budgetary line item in virtually every state, sometimes consuming as much as 1/3rd of general revenues, leaving less and less for education and other governmental services.

It seems obvious to me: the inmate population must be reduced. Certain laws must be repealed; alternatives to incarceration must be found. Probation must be adequately funded. Parole must be overhauled.

Frankly I'd be happy if no one but the violent offender served state or federal time; much as I loathe to admit it, we no longer have room in prison for the tax evader, embezzler or dead beat parent.

candystripper

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/4/2008 8:36:20 AM

Nosathro

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From: Orange County, California
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Nope Lock Down can only occur when an emergency, like, possible escape, fights, etc, not lack of staff..the place I worked at paid over a million dollars in overtime to meet staffing requirements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

But it isn't that hard to be on lock down, lock down can occur because of lack of staff.

Let me ask you this, is lack of staff due to budgeting, or lack of applicants? Is there a high turn over rate and did you find that people were being hired even if they shouldn't have been?

AND, in your opinion did you see a noticable difference in age groups?

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/4/2008 8:38:17 AM

Nosathro

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Hi...budget crises is a problem and serious...personal I believe it is a combination of problems that have lead to this situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Hello Nosathro, good to see you posting again.

A main reason I think this approach will be problematic is becasue California already is in a budget crises and we have a serious over-crowding problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us/27prisons.html?ex=1335326400&en=2445810c9c45309e&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Having worked inside the California Prisons system I would be hard pressed to say this would work. Most Southern Prisons White and Latin Gangs have teamed up against Black Gangs and in the in the North White and Black Gangs are against Latin Gangs. Oh last I heard the Men's Prison at Chino has been on lock down..in fact most California Prisons are on lock down.

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/4/2008 1:03:24 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

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You'll notice that your quote said nothing about a decrese in violence in Oklahoma prisons from the same experiment?

As for the whole "a 12 year old is a 12 year old" thing, Beth - age does not preclude violence, self absorption, robbery, rape, murder. By the age of 12, they've gone WAY past "the age of innocence" where they simply don't know any better. A 5 year old? Yeah, I might agree that one could be salvaged, even after shooting someone - at that age, there's a reasonable doubt about whether they understood what they were doing. At 12, there is NO DOUBT that they understand what they're doing unless they (like my 21 yr old) are so brain damaged that they lack the Physical and Mental Capacity to ever be considered an adult. Such things are exceedingly Rare, and are most usually spotted early and easily by medical professionals or very Very early grade teachers. And such brain damaged types are not what are being recruited into gangs where they are encouraged to commit felonies at the age of 12.

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RE: California's answer to capital punishment? - 7/4/2008 1:23:43 PM

Irishknight

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I put in for a correctional officer job a few years ago. The state had just come off a hiring freeze and opened testing up again. I recieved a letter from the state stating that I would be contacted for an interview and then within a week, another hiring freeze. Every officer I knew in the system was working 60 hours a week. The state said that funds wouldn't allow the hiring of more guards but they could pay the ones they had for 20 hours of OT a week. Its that kind of simple mismanagement that screws the system up more than anything.
As for the integration.... if it causes them to start killing each other off then we no longer will have an overcrowding problem in prisons. Maybe thats what they want to see happen.
And a 12 year old is not just a 12 year old but a murdering drug using bastard is a murdering drug using bastard at any age.

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