RE: Castle law (Full Version)

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DomAviator -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 3:30:39 PM)

Iron, I do NOT defend them but they did actually start as a "neigborhood watch" and it went HORRIBLY wrong as I said. If you want to be fair qoute the rest of what I said which was:

They too were a band of community minded citizens who would go out at night to patrol and to protect the public from "them", because they didnt want "them" in their community either...  So they started patrolling to track down the escaped slaves, people who they didnt think should be there, people who didnt step off the sidewalk when they saw a white woman, etc.... Then they stopped patrolling and started dispensing justice, and then they started holding trials, and they got a rope, and well the rest is a pretty ugly chapter in American history which goes on right through the present day...

I also said

There is truth to all three - as well as an extremlely ominous warning about what happens when people who arent the legitimate law enforcement authorities, take it upon themseleves to start patrolling the streets. Even private security firms have a long history of abuses - ranging from the "railroad dick" Pinkertons to the former SEALs of Blackwater who retook New Orleans and who fight in Iraq.
 
That is hardly defending themm but rather as I said "an ominous warning" about people who arent cops playing lawman. The organization actually DID begin on Christmas Eve 1865, in response to the "widespread lawlessness" that plauged the South following the Civil War. Hmmm a bunch of fed up people tired of the lawlessness going out at night to fight crime without being a cop - sounds like a neigborhood watch to me! Look at what they became... I hardly think "the rest is a pretty ugly chapter in American history" is a ringing endorsement.

Law enforcement is a job for cops, not vigilantes or citizens who are going to "do something"... We tried that, with rather unpleasnt results.

 




kittinSol -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 3:38:06 PM)

tulip, ma belle, tu as du courrier.




lronitulstahp -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 3:46:24 PM)

Sigh...to call it a neighborhood watch is just ignorant. i went to Pulaski Tennessee, the place that the KKK started.  Tennessee being a Union state during the civil war...pretty liberal as far as Southern states go.  The people of Pulaski don't seem to share your optimism that something "WENT" wrong.  they are pretty certain it was wrong form the beginning.

To call them the FIRST neighborhood watch in this country is grossly wrong.  There have been "watches" since Jamestown...hell do you think the pilgrims slept securely and trusted the fact that some of my peeps wouldn't come a'calling??? Honestly...i am not being at all fecetious when i say i pity you in a way, because i don't think you want to be so...Damn!  i have no words.  i will say, i don't think you're the vile hateful asshole i once pegged you to be(thank GT for that)...but i wish you had been taught better...or been surrounded by a different class of people.  It might have made a world of difference. Alot of what people seem to pass off as fact or acceptable around your neck of the woods is the mental and theorhetical equivalent of what your shit scooper guy cleans up regularly.




CruelDesires -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 4:15:45 PM)

I actually find DA's posts entertaining at times.  I do not nessesarily agree with everything he says, but they are fun on occasion to read.

CD




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 4:22:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Plus the fact that she could've shielded her friends from the bullet and then he would have jack shit for a defense. Most people who stay in abusive relationships do so because they are not all that smart. Perhaps it was a good learning experience ? It may sound harsh but something similar happened to my sister, and I do not want to go into what happened next, but it was very bad. But she did find a way out.



I hadn't intended to comment on this particular thread - but changed my mind.  (Imagine that, a woman that changes her mind! LOL)
 
First - Oklahoma has LONG had things similar to the so called "castle" laws in effect.  Here it's called the "Make My Day" law.  I sleep peacefully at night due to the combination of that Make My Day law, the .45 I keep loaded and close to hand, and plenty of time on the gun range doing target shooting.
 
Second - Termy, while I agree with Most of what you said, I do strongly disagree with one specific comment.  The one that I've Bolded and Italicized in the above quote.  You're wrong.  Period.  It has Nothing to do with lack of Intelligence and Everything to do with Fear.  When the fear of Staying becomes greater than the fear of Leaving - people leave.  Take it from someone who knows from personal experience.  (And while there are no doubt many who disagree with my opinions on various subjects, I think there are few who would call me lacking in intelligence on a general level.)

Why is the second Significant in this thread?  Because if I'd had the access to weapons while I was in an abusive relationship (getting beat up on a regular basis, and emotionally beat up when I wasn't getting physically beat up) - I would not be on the  boards because I would Probably be in JAIL for Murder.  In my area, the DA at the time had a Known History of ignoring domestic violence until someone Died.  Why? Because his numbers looked better getting a conviction for Murder than for simple Assault, and he didn't really give a flyin flip whether it was the abuser who got put on trial for eventually killing their partner, or the abused for killing their abuser.  Take a look at relatively recent history, and I'm willing to bet that you'd find a LOT of DAs who had the same sort of self serving attitude that led to people dying due to domestic abuse.   I got out when the fear of staying overcame the fear of attempting to leave - because I knew at that point that if I continued to stay, either *I would end up dead some night at his hands, or HE would end up dead - in a rather ugly, messy, fucked up manner that would probably have put psychopathic serial killers to shame.  That was then.  These days, I'd simply shoot him the first time he lifted a fist to me and have done with it, rather than waiting for the fear to get to that point.




candystripper -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 4:23:11 PM)

quote:

.......What it says basically is that you no longer need to prove your life was in danger to use deadly force against an intruder. You no longer have the obligation to retreat. Just shoot them.........

Termyn8or


I can't find it.  Is there a new USSC decision on-point?  I can't even find a new Ohio Supreme Court decision.
 
May I please have a link?
 
candystripper




UncleNasty -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 4:52:20 PM)

I don't if it is specific to Kentucky or if it generally applies, but...

In defense of your own person you may shoot another who is threatening you from a distance of 21 feet away. They (you know, "they") have calculated that is the distance an attacker can cover in the amount of time it takes to unholster a weapon, take aim and fire.

Uncle Nasty




popeye1250 -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 5:25:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

tulip, ma belle, tu as du courrier.


Kittin, how do you say that in Irish?

Pa Hunk, fuck that neighborhood watch stuff ya'll need a "Vigilance Committee."
Ride around in big powerfull pick-up trucks drinking beer with baseball bats looking at people menacingly.
Drive by some drug dealers and say; "Don't go to sleep, we're going to burn your house down!"
In Greenville a few years ago they high school jocks went out on what they called "Rehab Rides" looking for drug dealors to "Rehab."
They beat the snot out of them with bats and hammers and fists and it worked!




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 5:34:44 PM)

quote:

Tennessee being a Union state during the civil war


Tennessee was not a member of the Union during the Civil War. 




lronitulstahp -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 5:47:22 PM)

You're correct slaveboy...i should have said a Union sympathiser state.  It voted to stay in the Union in 1861, but joined the Southern states after fort Sumpter.  Th ogh if i'm not mistaken it was the first state to rejoin the Union..and that happened before the war's end, so  i did get a bit fuzzy on some facts.  Thanks,  i  did want to check that after typing it.




kittinSol -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 6:04:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Kittin, how do you say that in Irish?



Don't know... huh... Póg mo thóin! ?




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 6:06:06 PM)

quote:

You're correct slaveboy...i should have said a Union sympathiser state.  It voted to stay in the Union in 1861, but joined the Southern states after fort Sumpter.  Th ogh if i'm not mistaken it was the first state to rejoin the Union..and that happened before the war's end, so  i did get a bit fuzzy on some facts.  Thanks,  i  did want to check that after typing it.


You're welcome.  Parts of Tennessee did sympathize with the Union.  Parts of a lot of Southern states did.  East Tennessee, the western Carolinas, and the western area of Virginia all were generally sympathetic with North.  In fact, that's how we got the state of West Virginia.  Mountain people weren't involved in large scale farming, and most of them didn't own slaves.  They didn't want to be involved in the war.  My own state of Arkansas was divided too.  The Ozark Plateau and Ouachita Mountains were generally populated by those that were sympathetic to the North.  Again they weren't involved in large scale farming, and didn't own slaves for the most part.  You still see that difference today.  Northwest Arkansas is a Republican stronghold, and it has been since the Civil War.  The rest of the state is where all the large scale agriculture occurred, and it is still mostly made up of Southern Democrats.  Some of the most violent guerilla warfare occurred on the Arkansas-Missouri border in the Ozark highlands between groups that were sympathetic to the North or South. 

I wanted to address something DA said.  The KKK was not a neighborhood watch organization.  They came about after the Civil War mainly to terrorize former slaves and carpetbaggers.  The original organization was more akin to the IRA or the Ulster terrorist groups in Northern Ireland.  The original organization was mostly wiped out during Reconstruction by occupying Union troops. 

The KKK that came about in the 1920's mostly started in the Northern states.  It came about because of massive black migration to northern states to work in industry.  It was started by after the film Birth of a Nation came out.  The film romanticized the Ku Klux Klan, and it portrayed them falsely.  But it was well received.  It was the first films to actually tell a story.  In fact Woodrow Wilson was a big fan of the film and commented that, "It was like writing history with lightning." 

The second Klan boasted close to 20 million members, and it was mainly a fraternal organization.  However because it was so wide spread, a lot of the members were able to get into local politics.  In fact the whole state of Indiana was controlled by Klansmen.  Because of scandals in Indiana and elsewhere, the second Klan mostly dissolved. 

The next wave of Klansmen were remnants of that organization that managed to hold on in the South.  They did still wield considerable power, and they controlled a lot of communities in the South.  But they were mostly wiped out during the 60's because of federal intervention and changing attitudes in the South. 

The Klan you see today are clowns.  They have nothing in common with the Klan of the past except for their views on minorities.  They don't hold any power, and most of the membership is made up of uneducated people that have failed at life.  You will not find professional, educated members of society among their ranks for the most part.  The Klan of today is irrelevant, and they don't wield any power. 




Irishknight -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 7:07:32 PM)

Something else that needs to be addressed.  Having spent a good deal of my life as an armed rentacop, Term gave some bad advice.  In the case of the headlight nazi, drive around him.  He legally has no right to stop you for headlights being out.  Term is correct on that.  However, had you drove at me at any speed and refused to stop, I can pass that off in a court of law as an attempt on my life and draw and shoot.  9999 out of 10000 will retreat.  There were times when I couldn't retreat quickly due to knee injuries so driving at me would have been a legitimate threat and the driver would have been dead.  No questions.  No remorse.
As for castle law, I like it.  Breaking and entering into my domicile with evil intent is punishable by death .... or worse.   




DomAviator -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 8:15:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

The Klan you see today are clowns.  They have nothing in common with the Klan of the past except for their views on minorities.  They don't hold any power, and most of the membership is made up of uneducated people that have failed at life.  You will not find professional, educated members of society among their ranks for the most part.  The Klan of today is irrelevant, and they don't wield any power. 


Slaveboy, I disagree with this... As I mentioned in a thread some time ago, I have been on several occasions been invited to join the Klan by members of mainstream masonic organizations I belong to. I cannot emphasize enough that your charectorization of "uneducated people who have failed at life" is completely inaccurate at least in Texas. Yes there are trailer park dwelling bands-of-bubbas but they for the most part belong to splinter groups or are the patsys sent to do the bidding and to take the fall for the men behind the curtains.

Here in my part of Texas, the bay area, its pretty safe to say that the Klan / Kamelia membership roster would read like a who's who. These are the same businessmen and professionals who are in the Masons, Shriners, and Rotary clubs, as well as in the Chamber of Commerce and elected to various local, county, and state positions... I have it on good authority that one is a school superintendant in a prestegious district (which explains an absolute idiot fresh out of college with a bachelor of arts in "General Studies" and "alternative certification" being hired to teach in an elite school that my ex-wife with both bachelors and masters degrees in education and several years experience couldnt get into) , on one occasion I was personally approached by a local attorney who had another man who I know to be an important person in Harris county politics with him,  on another occasion I was approached by a man who owns a privately held company with more than 200 employees,I know one who is a captain in a law enforcement agency...  

They aren't as gone as you would like to think... The smart ones just dont go on Springer and rant like idiots. They make sure that members daughter gets the choice teaching job in the primo district. They own a company and make sure that nobody who isnt WASP gets into a position requiring a tie. They make sure that the non white defendant gets the book thrown at him...  Do a little research and youll see that in Harris County a black defendant has a hell of a lot higher chance of getting the needle, and if the victim was white its pretty much a certainty. Take a look at the "in custody deaths" of inmates broken down by race. Ditto for the police shootings... Its suall under the surface, but its there and there is enough of a pattern that you know it cant be random.

They arent as irrelevant as you think slaveboy - the last black man out of vidor alive was dead 11 hours later. The vietnameese shrimpers were run out of Kemah and Seabrook. They are practically an institution....




candystripper -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 8:25:20 PM)

Okay; so there is no new USSC decision on 'castle law'?  

I think anyone who needs to know what the defenses of self dedense, defense of another and defense of property cover in their state should do some legal research. 
 
Try FindLaw.com for starters.
 
The excerpt below jives with what I can recall from studying for the bars in Ohio and Florida many moons ago, but it won't serve as a substitute for doing your own research or consulting an attorney:
 
quote:

The law, and the facts underlying a cause of action are rarely clear-cut. Statutes and case law vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Lawyers are skilled at recasting the facts in their client’s best interest. Juries are given broad discretion with respect to determining guilt or innocence, and may feel the need to compensate an injured party regardless of fault. And even if a defendant successfully raises one of the defenses discussed above, litigation is costly both in terms of time and money.

It would be foolish to try to rely on a general understanding of the legal principles at work in these situations, in order to engage in behavior which falls just within the realm of legality. Rather, the wise martial artist will attempt to avoid any hint of liability or criminal conduct. The following general principles may be of value in this endeavor.

• Avoid physical confrontation. If there is a safe avenue of retreat, use it (regardless of jurisdiction). At a minimum, retreat to the wall.

• If confrontation is inevitable, give a warning when defending property, unless doing so would be dangerous or futile (which is often the case).  You should give the aggressor notice that you intend to use force against him, in order to allow him to reconsider his position.

• Ensure that you are not seen as the aggressor. This does not require ‘taking the first hit’, but it does require being certain that physical contact is imminent prior to reacting (for an in-depth examination of the danger here, see the Goetz case).

• Be aware of the aggravating and mitigating factors. Is there a size, age, or ability differential? Are you or the attacker armed or trained? All of these factors will help you determine the appropriate level of force.

• Use only the amount of force necessary to deter the attack. This does not require the use of ineffective technique, but rather mature reflection prior to a confrontation about what technique (including flight) is appropriate in which situation.

• Once the initial threat is neutralized, stop. This does not mean that you must give your opponent a fighting chance. Rather, you may immobilize the attacker while awaiting the police, but do no further damage.

• When intervening on behalf of a third party, ensure (as much as possible) that the intervention is justified and necessary. As a rule, interference in domestic disputes is unwise. Reconciliations can mean trouble for the would-be rescuer.

• Remember that, in this country, human rights are superior to property rights. The use of force in the protection of property is very risky.


http://www.ittendojo.org/articles/general-4.htm

Note: Bear in mind the difference between criminal and civil law.  While you may or may not be subject to arrest and prosecution, you might still be liable for money damages in civil court, where 'castle law' defenses may not serve to protect you.  Since you would have been sued for an intentional tort, your homeowner's insurance company will not send an attorney to represent you nor will they indemnify you for damages if you lose.

candystripper




NumberSix -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 8:26:52 PM)

on several occasions been invited to join the Klan by members of mainstream masonic organizations I belong to.

what 'several masonic organizations' do you belong to?

DeMolay? nope
Order of the Eastern Star?

Oh, you're presidential material, you are.  A queen, at least. 

LOL.

Ron   




candystripper -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 8:56:10 PM)

No shit?
 
That is truely shocking, NumberSix.  Wonder whether the Knights of Columbus are also up to no good.
 
BTW, both DA and Ironitulstahp seem to be wrong; the KKK was orginally formed for the amusement of (mainly) former confederate miliatry: 
 
quote:

The popular idea supposes the Ku Klux movement to have been conceived in malice, and nursed by prejudice and hate, for lawlessness, rapine, and murder. The circumstances which brought the Klan into notice and notoriety were of a character to favor such a conclusion. No other seemed possible. The report of the Congressional investigating committee confirmed it. But granting the truthfulness of that report, it is fragmentary truth; it does not tell the whole story; and it leaves the impression that the Ku Klux Klan was conceived and carried out in pure and unmixed deviltry. Whether this conclusion is just and true, the reader who follows this narrative to its end will decide.

   The Ku Klux Klan was the outgrowth of peculiar conditions, social, civil, and political, which prevailed at the South from 1865 to 1869. It was as much a product of those conditions as malaria is of a swamp and sunheat. Its birth-place was Pulaski, the capital of Giles, one of the southern tier of counties in Middle Tennessee. Pulaski is a town of two thousand five hundred to three thousand inhabitants. Previous to the war the people possessed wealth and culture. The first was lost in the general wreck. Now the most intimate association with them fails to disclose a trace of the diabolism which, according to the popular idea, one would expect to find characterizing the people among whom the Ku Klux Klan originated. A male college and a female seminary are located at Pulaski, and receive liberal patronage. It is a town of churches.

   There, in 1866, the name Ku Klux first fell from human lips. There began a movement which in a short time spread as far north as Virginia and as far south as Texas, and which for a period convulsed the country. Proclamations were fulminated against the Klan by the President and by the Governors of States; and hostile statutes were enacted both by State and national legislatures, for there had become associated with the name of Ku Klux Klan gross mistakes and lawless deeds of violence.

   During the entire period of the Klan’s organized existence Pulaski continued to be its central seat of authority, and some of its highest officers resided there. This narrative, therefore, will relate principally to the growth of the Klan and the measures taken to suppress it in Tennessee. It is necessary to a clear understanding of the movement to observe that the history of the Klan is marked by two distinct and well-defined periods. The first period covers the time from its organization in 1866 to the summer of 1867. This period of its history, though less interesting, should be described somewhat minutely, because of its bearing on subsequent events.

   When the war ended in 1865 the young men of Pulaski who escaped death on the battle-field returned home and passed through a period of enforced inactivity. In some respects it was more trying than the ordeal of war which lay behind them. The reaction which followed the excitement of army scenes and service was intense. There was nothing to relieve it. They could not engage in active business or professional pursuits. Their business habits were broken up. None had capital with which to conduct agricultural pursuits or to engage in mercantile enterprises. And this restlessness was made more intense by the total lack of the amusements and social diversions which prevail wherever society is in a normal condition. One evening in June 1866, a few of these young men met in the office of one of the most prominent members of the Pulaski bar. In the course of the conversation one of the number said: “Boys, let us get up a club or a society of some description.”

   The suggestion was discussed with enthusiasm. Before they separated, it was agreed to invite a few others whose names were mentioned to join them, and to meet again the next evening at the same place. At the appointed time eight or ten young men had assembled. The club was organized by the election of a chairman and a secretary. There was entire unanimity among the members in regard to the end in view, which was diversion and amusement. The evening was spent discussing the best means of attaining the object in view. Two committees were appointed, one to select a name, the other to prepare a set of rules for the government of the society, and a ritual for the initiation of new members. Then the club adjourned, to meet the following week to hear and act upon the reports of these committees. Before the arrival of the appointed time for the next meeting one of the wealthiest and most prominent citizens of Pulaski went on a business trip to Columbus, Miss., taking his family with him. Before leaving he invited one of the leading spirits of the new society to take charge of and sleep at his house in his absence. This young man invited his comrades to join him there; so the place of meeting was changed from the law office {Page 400} to this residence. The owner of the house outlived the Ku Klux Klan, and died ignorant of the fact that his house was the place where its organization was fully effected. This residence afterward came into the possession of Judge H. M. Spofford, of Spofford-Kellogg fame. It was his home at the time of his death, and is still owned by his widow.

   The committee appointed to select a name reported that they had found the task difficult, and had not made a selection. They explained that they had been trying to discover or invent a name which would be in some degree suggestive of the character and objects of the society. They mentioned several names which they had been considering. In this number was the name “Kukloi” from the Greek word {Greek characters} (kuklos), meaning a band or circle. At mention of this, some one cried out:

  “Call it Ku Klux!”

  “Klan” at once suggested itself, and was added to complete the alliteration. So, instead of adopting a name, as was the first intention, which had a definite meaning, they chose one which to the proposer and to every one else was absolutely meaningless. This trivial and apparently accidental incident had a most important bearing on the future of the organization so singularly named. Looking back over the history of the Klan, and at the causes under which it developed, it is difficult to resist the conclusion that the order would never have grown to the proportions which it afterward assumed, or wielded the power it did, had it not borne this name, or some other equally as meaningless and mysterious. Had they called themselves the “Jolly Jokers,” or the “Adelphi,” or by some similar appellation, the organization would doubtless have had no more than the mere local and ephemeral existence which those who organized it contemplated for it. Hundreds of societies have originated just as this one did, and, after a brief existence, have passed away. But in the case before us there was a weird potency in the very name Ku Klux Klan! Let the reader pronounce it aloud. The sound of it is suggestive of bones rattling together! The potency of the name was not wholly in the impression made by it on the general public. It is a singular fact that the members of the Klan were themselves the first to feel its weird influence. They had adopted a mysterious name. Thereupon the original plan was modified so as to make everything connected with the order harmonize with the name.

   Amusement was still the end in view; but the methods by which they proposed to win it were now those of secrecy and -mystery. So when the report of the committee on rules and ritual came up for consideration, the recommendations were modified to adapt them to the new idea. The report, as finally adopted provided for the following officers:

  A Grand Cyclops, or presiding officer.
  A Grand Magi, or vice-president.
  A Grand Turk, or marshal.
  A Grand Exchequer, or treasurer.
  Two Lictors, who were the outer and inner guards of the “den,” as the place of meeting was designated.

   The one obligation exacted from members was to maintain absolute and profound secrecy with reference to the order and everything pertaining to it. This obligation prohibited those who assumed it from disclosing the fact that they were Ku Klux, or the name of any other member, and from soliciting any one to become a member. The last requirement was a singular one. It was exacted for two reasons. First, it was in keeping with their determination to appear as mysterious as possible, and thus play upon the curiosity of the public. Secondly, and mainly, it was designed to prevent unpleasantness following initiations. They wished to be able to say to novices: “You are here on your own solicitation, and not by invitation from us.”

   They desired accessions; to have them was indispensable; but they knew human nature well enough to know that if they made the impression that they wished to be exclusive and select, then applications for membership would be numerous. The result showed that they reasoned correctly. Each member was required to-provide himself with the following outfit:

   A white mask for the face with orifices for the eyes and nose.

   A tall, fantastic cardboard hat, so constructed as to increase the wearers apparent height.

   A gown or robe of sufficient length to cover the entire person. No particular color or material was prescribed. These were left to the individuals taste and fancy; and each selected what in his judgment would be the most hideous and fantastic, with the aim of inspiring the greatest amount of awe in the novice. These robes of different colors—often of the most flashy patterns of “Dolly Varden” calicoes—added vastly to the grotesque appearance of the assembled Klan.

   Each member carried also a small whistle, with which, by means of a code of signals agreed upon, they held communications with one another. The only utility in this was to awaken inquiry.

   And the object of all this was—amusement. “Only this, and nothing more.” A few young men, barred for the time by circumstances from entering any active business or professional pursuits, and deprived of the ordinary {Page 401} diversions of social life, were seeking in this way to amuse and employ themselves. The organization of this Klan was to them both diversion and occupation. But where did the fun come in? Partly in exciting the curiosity of the public and then in baffling it, but mainly in the initiation of new members.


http://www.tngenweb.org/giles/afro-amer/history/kkk1.html 
 
However, as the excerpt points out, even Congress failed to ascertain the true intent of the original founders of the KKK.  Doubtless DA is correct in saying in time, it was viewed by some as a 'neighborhood watch group'.

candystripper




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 9:40:46 PM)

DA I don't know where you've met these people, but that's not been my experience.  My grandfather was a 33rd degree Mason in the Scottish Rite order, and he was a Shriner.  I know for a fact they wouldn't have tolerated Ku Klux Klan members within their organization, and that was in West Virginia in the 50's.  My father is a Rotarian, a member of the American Legion, and the VFW, and he sat on the board of our local country club.  I have lived all my life in the South.  My father's side are from West Virginia, and my mother's side are all from the Alabama-Georgia area around Columbus.  You don't get more WASP than me, but I have never met Klan members that were community leaders.  I haven't lived a sheltered existence.  I've met a lot of white supremacist loonies, but most of them were clowns. 

In 1995, right after the OKC bombings I was taking a seminar course in Organized Crime taught by a retired FBI agent. (criminal justice was my minor).  We had to do a paper and presentation on an organized criminal or terrorist movement.  I specifically picked white supremacists, because there was so much information circulating after OKC.  I went in to his office while I was doing research and talked to him about these groups.  He told me that the Feds kept an eye on them, but for the most part didn't take them that seriously.  The overwhelming majority of them weren't worth worrying about.  The ones that engaged in criminal conduct and got caught almost always became snitches. 

Arkansas has one of the oldest and largest Klan groups in the U.S.  We have the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan headed by Thom Robb.  He's a Baptist preacher, and he's tried to "clean" up the Klan image just like David Duke tried.  He's still a crackpot, and his members are mostly retards.  I've met a few of them.  I just don't see Texas being any more of a hot spot for Klan activity than Arkansas or any other Southern state. 

Yes a lot of these groups have some leadership with some education and a middle class background.  The late Dr. William Pierce was a PhD in physics, and made millions off his book The Turner Diaries.  It was his and people like David Duke's dream to get white professionals into their organizations.  But for the most part, it didn't happen.  No one takes them seriously, and you only have to read The Turner Diaries to understand how moronic their ideas are.  It's hard for me to imagine a educated, cultured person being lured in by these idiots. 

As far as blacks getting the death penalty more often, that's universal across the country.  It has to do with economics.  If you don't have enough money to hire a good lawyer in a death penalty case, than you are probably fucked.  If OJ had been a bus driver, he's be sitting on death row right now.  Of course there is prejudice on juries and cops do lie under oath all the time.  It's one of the big reasons I don't give the police the credence and respect that other's think they deserve. 




DomAviator -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 10:22:16 PM)

Slaveboy, I know that there is a large branch out of Harrison Arkansas. However, here in Texas we have the group out of Vidor Texas as well as the group out of Cleveland Tx. They are admittedly for the most part Bubbas. However, in my community we have a large presence of the Knoghts of the White Kamelia which is essentially the Klan leadership, the men behind the curtains who pull the strings on the bubbas. As for the FBI they are a fucking joke who couldn't find their asses with both hands. I mean really, this is the same FBI who failed to stop the 9-11 hijackings when numerous flight instructors were repeatedly calling them to report suspicious arab men training in transport category aircraft - including one who told them his student was renting a 747 simulator in Phoenix and crashing into buildings repeatedly... The FBI missed that when it was called in to them so you think they can find Klan??? LOL

Here is a news article from liek 2 years ago about the Klan in Texas which explains its covert agenda and policy of infiltration as well as the fact that there are 40 klaverns in Tx.

http://www.texascivilrightsproject.org/newspub/clip_051027_klan_act.html

Here is a NY times story about one of he events that took place in Seabrook Texas before the Klan Paramilitary Arm "The Texas Emergency Reserve" came in to drive the vietnameese out of Kemah/Seabrook in the 1980's. This is literally a stones throw from my town...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507E6DA1639F936A25751C0A967948260

Here is more on the incident, and the rather interesting legal case that followed in which a federal judge ruled against the Klan. Oddly enough though, I havent seen a Vietnameese shrimper in Kemah / Seabrook so while they won on paper they are off the water...

http://www.unclaw.com/chin/scholarship/fishermen.htm

and of course we have President Clintons failed integration of vidor... http://www.kordelski.org/vidor2.html




darkpassenger434 -> RE: Castle law (7/3/2008 10:31:48 PM)

I'm all for this. I totally object to any language in the law that implies I have a legal obligation to retreat in the face of danger or firmly establish "life threat" before responding with deadly force. If someone breaks into my home, my sanctum, I feel I have the right to deal with the threat as I see fit.
-R




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