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RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 9:51:07 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

OK, let's back the fucking truck up here.

I can't afford to fly a Lear around. (and DA rents them I bet)
I can't afford a 340 inch TV.
I can't afford a concert quality sound system.
I can't afford a brand new Hummer (actually I could put it on a credit card but I don't want the payment)

But I can afford condoms. I could even come up with a couple of hundred for an abortion, but will I ?

When I cannot afford condoms, I guess I cannot afford to have sex. So I am cool as long as this job holds out. So far so good.

As much as I hate to, I have to agree with some religion sometimes. If you can't afford to have kids, DO NOT FUCK.

It really is that simple. Art thou Man, Woman or beast ?

T

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 21

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 9:54:39 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

And it is $15 a doctor's visit and $3 dollars total for all prescriptions at the Health Center here...$4 each for generics at many pharmacies if the clinic is out.

then you are damn lucky. :)

anyway, back to the point of the thread, as far as i'm concerned, until the situation surrounding abortion changes in this country, i will support most justifications for late term abortion.

a'ishah.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 7/4/2008 9:57:40 PM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 22

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 10:25:08 PM

cuddlemesoft

Posts: 47
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline

My understanding of Obama's position is that of most politians and the majority of the country- abortions after a certain point in the pregnancy is wrong unless the mother will die or have irreversible physical damage. In his statement about mental distress I assume he means that saying your pregnancy will cause you mental anguish is not enough if you have reached that certain point in your pregnancy and that you need to tough it out. I see nothing he has said to be differnet than what he has stated before and in line with the majority of middle America's prochoice voters. Seems pretty standard to me.

As for the lack of birth control argument that is just the same rhetoric that has gone on forever. Lack of birth control or education may be an argument for keeping abortion legal but it has little to do with when it is too late. It is a seperate issue as anyone who may not have access to birth control but does have access to an abortion should be able to get that abortion in the first trimester as they would be able in the third.

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 23

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 10:32:59 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

to clarify, my argument wasn't about lack of access to birth control, it was about lack of access to abortion. it's been shown time and again that the fact that abortion is legal doesn't mean that women are actually able to obtain it.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 7/4/2008 10:33:27 PM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to cuddlemesoft)

Post #: 24

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 10:41:43 PM

cuddlemesoft

Posts: 47
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline

I see. Read too quickly or something but I understand your argument. Good point though I doubt the majority of prochoice voters would feel comfort with late term abortions regardless of that arguemnt though. The lack of equality in health care in general is a sad state of affairs and if people are unable to access basic medical care then elective procedures (regardless of the nature) are surely not going to get priority.

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 25

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 11:08:30 PM

SinSoap

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline

Just another reason I'm a registered Libertarian. I dislike moralistic laws and unconsensual domination over my body and the consquences I must live with on a daily basis (ie- being a parent until my death or child's death, and/or managing feeling about the questionable raising a child could get from adopted family/foster care etc etc).

As I see it.... I am not pro-abortion, I wouldn't choose that for myself, personally, as far as I can tell thus far. That is why I make responsible choices in my activities to avoid pregancy. But at any point, even though I try to actively avoid such things, I could be raped. And I could get pregnant. ....So if I think I can live with the child and don't get an immediate abortion, don't I have the right to change my mind later out of mental distress? What if I read some scientific article about some ultra new "rapist gene" [hypothetical situation only] and want to terminate that fetus? It seems absurd that I not be allowed to have that as an option.

And anyone else who feels similarly (about libertarian politics) could really benefit from visiting this website:

http://freestateproject.org/

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 26

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 11:12:27 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

That is a tough call, and only the medical doctors can make that decision in my opnion. Barrack is not a doctor.
My neighbor is bipolar and has seziures. She is pregnant. She cannot take her medications while she is pregnant.
I am bipolar, and I don't sleep in a tent in my house where they have electric ac. She is bizare.
I really don't think she is mentally qualified to have that child, but it is her doctor's call.
No telling what will happen to it once she does have it.

Regards, MissSCD

I am glad she is moving.
You should see her in the tent with her laptop with the tent being on he side porch. lol

Guys, the above's a description of most women, isn't it? We've been trained to overlook all these little feminine quirks so we can get laid.

Hey! Don't shoot the messenger!!!

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to MissSCD)

Post #: 27

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 11:39:28 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I am of the opinion if you can't afford to s upport life you created don't fuck, or stick to sextoys only. It's totaly irresponcible to have sex then want to kill the life you created because all of a sudden oh shit babies cost money!

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Good/Decent reasons for abortion:
1) Can't afford to have a child.

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 28

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/4/2008 11:58:00 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

yeah that's where YOU get medical help. Here in Sacramento at kiaser, it's 35 to 40 dollars for a dr's visit and about 60 dollars or more PER perscription if you don't have insurance that covers your perscription needs, Hell I've heard of it costing elderly people I've talked to costing100 dollars for one perscription. Now maybe kiaser's more expensive than others I don't know, but I do know I'd certaintly have to choose between bills or going to the dr if I didn't have health insurance. And if I wasn't on SSI, I wouldn't be able to afford health insurance at all, and since I have previous exsisting medical conditions, I'd have to pay a ton more than normal and that's even IF a plan provider would touch me . And most plan providers will not provide insurance to people with pre exsisting conditions. And i know that because my Daddy dom just tried to get insurance a few months ago, and was turned down by all companies because of his pre exsiting conditions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

And it is $15 a doctor's visit and $3 dollars total for all prescriptions at the Health Center here...$4 each for generics at many pharmacies if the clinic is out.

How many trips to Starbucks would you have to give up for that? 3? 4? Oh you are right, what a repressive country where women fear for their lives because birth control access is denied.
Not even close.

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 7/4/2008 11:59:29 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 29

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 1:28:42 AM

MadameMarque

Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline

I am concerned that the guy who might be our next president dispenses his layman's opinion, as neither a doctor, psychologist, or a female, so freely, on this complicated issue of pregnancy and the mental health of a mother. Not to mention the issue of bringing an unwanted child into the world.

I am concerned that he thinks a person's mental health is not their health. Doesn't bode too well for his supporting issues involving mental health, if he thinks 'it's all in your head.' Even people who just watch a talk show or PBS or read a magazine now and then, have a more sophisticated understanding than that, of the relationship between physical, mental, and emotional health.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 30

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 1:58:51 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameMarque
I am concerned that he thinks a person's mental health is not their health. Doesn't bode too well for his supporting issues involving mental health, if he thinks 'it's all in your head.' Even people who just watch a talk show or PBS or read a magazine now and then, have a more sophisticated understanding than that, of the relationship between physical, mental, and emotional health.

amen to that.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to MadameMarque)

Post #: 31

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 3:26:32 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

Good for Obama.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 32

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 3:32:31 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

That is a tough call, and only the medical doctors can make that decision in my opnion. Barrack is not a doctor.
My neighbor is bipolar and has seziures. She is pregnant. She cannot take her medications while she is pregnant.
I am bipolar, and I don't sleep in a tent in my house where they have electric ac. She is bizare.
I really don't think she is mentally qualified to have that child, but it is her doctor's call.
No telling what will happen to it once she does have it.

Regards, MissSCD

I am glad she is moving.
You should see her in the tent with her laptop with the tent being on he side porch. lol

Guys, the above's a description of most women, isn't it? We've been trained to overlook all these little feminine quirks so we can get laid.

Hey! Don't shoot the messenger!!!

You're in such trouble now.

Don't listen to him, ladies....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 33

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 4:14:46 AM

HeavansKeeper

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

I am of the opinion if you can't afford to s upport life you created don't fuck, or stick to sextoys only. It's totaly irresponcible to have sex then want to kill the life you created because all of a sudden oh shit babies cost money!

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Good/Decent reasons for abortion:
1) Can't afford to have a child.

Firstly, it could have been a different post where DA brought to my attention the strict laws regarding men and abandonment, so for the record, I'm rethinking that.

Secondly, I feel that genetic material is hardly life. If that were the case, sperm and eggs seperated would be life, as they move, respond to stimuli, and even feed. I do not consider every human past the age of puberty a mass murderer. (Although by definition, it would make women serial killers.)

Does it cost a lot to have a child? Yes. There's shoes and food and school and the list goes on and on. Is it only for the super-rich? No. Plenty of people can afford kids, and many others can "make it work" to have one.

I don't feel its fair to humanity to avoid sex because sex used to cause pregnancy^. Now sex CAN be done recreationally, and I'm all for that.

I believe, relevant to this post, two things.
1) Having a child is the most life changing event*.
2) Humans are sexual creatures.

In this epoch, when we have the ability to reconcile this paradox, there's no reason not to. I believe in (apparently three things..) seperation of church and state. Make it legal, let everyone's own God sort out their fate.

*Not including deaths. "Happy" events only.
^Here I'm talking about available birthcontrol (both pre and post sex - which has been established is iffy).

_____________________________

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 34

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 4:17:54 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

I don't understand why anyone cares what a MALE thinks about abortion.

Sure, he can believe whatever he wants, but to pay any attention to it is ludicrous.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 35

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 4:19:28 AM

HeavansKeeper

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameMarque

I am concerned that the guy who might be our next president dispenses his layman's opinion, as neither a doctor, psychologist, or a female, so freely, on this complicated issue of pregnancy and the mental health of a mother. Not to mention the issue of bringing an unwanted child into the world.

No, non-sense. This means he's not an "interested party." He's objective!

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to MadameMarque)

Post #: 36

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 4:44:32 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

yeah that's where YOU get medical help. Here in Sacramento at kiaser, it's 35 to 40 dollars for a dr's visit and about 60 dollars or more PER perscription if you don't have insurance that covers your perscription needs, Hell I've heard of it costing elderly people I've talked to costing100 dollars for one perscription. Now maybe kiaser's more expensive than others I don't know, but I do know I'd certaintly have to choose between bills or going to the dr if I didn't have health insurance. And if I wasn't on SSI, I wouldn't be able to afford health insurance at all, and since I have previous exsisting medical conditions, I'd have to pay a ton more than normal and that's even IF a plan provider would touch me . And most plan providers will not provide insurance to people with pre exsisting conditions. And i know that because my Daddy dom just tried to get insurance a few months ago, and was turned down by all companies because of his pre exsiting conditions.

Which has nothing to do with the claim that there is a lack of access to birth control in the United States.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 37

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 5:06:47 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Obama's position on abortion, or anything else, is immaterial. At this point he has proven to be better at lying/gross misrepresentation with a straight face than Bill Clinton ever was. The latest example of that is Obama's first general election campaign ad, the one which tauts his legislative record as an Illinois Senator and a U.S. Senator. Anyone who checks Obama's involvement with each specific piece of legislation referenced in that ad will find that Obama's actual involvement countermands that ad.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 38

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 5:41:58 AM

Gwynvyd

Posts: 4949
Status: offline

I am doing a fast reply... I have not read the other responses yet.. prob. with a want to keeping my blood pressure low.

Having been a Dula ( Labor assistant ) I have to agree 110% with Obama.

Short of Medicaly nessasary Partial Birth aborations should be banned. Period. ( and let me tell you folks they are at that point never medicaly nessasary if the mother has had medical care.) The child is basicaly delivered, once the head pops out, they puncture the head of the baby before the rest of it is delivered. It would have been a normal delivery otherwise. If earlier, they take forcepts grab a leg, drag it out, open a hole in the skull, and then pull the rest of it out.

Almost all pregnant women go through emotional ups and downs. I know I did. Mainly up.. but I was very blessed with being a *happy* pregnant woman. I have refused to be party to or assist any of these. We had one case where she simply decided she did not want the child as her due date drew near. her "life would end" if she had some brat. ( her words) so she decided on a partial birth abortion. Instead of adoption.. or any other option this ( There are not words strong enough in any human language) decided to do this instead.

You all may see Obama as flip floping on abortion.. what ever. You will find ways of disliking him any way you look at it. But Honestly study what late term and partial birth abortion actualy *is*

I believe every woman has the right to chose.. ( at least in the early weeks) but when the fetus becomes too old for a normal abortion and it becomes a D&E or a partial birth abortion for reasons other then medical I think you are taking your rights too heavily over that of the baby. I will prob. get flamed for this. But I have been there and seen it. I know what it is.

Another thing that irks me is no one ever discusses the emotional effects of abortions. ( Except for the Jesus Crispies which just negate it all to hell. ) I am quite sure everyone but the most hardened bitch would be effected by having a dead baby pulled out of them.

Just my 2 ducats.

Gwyn

_____________________________

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Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 39

RE: Obama: Mental distress cannot justify abortion - 7/5/2008 5:52:33 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

General ...

All politicians say what they have to say in order to get elected. Senator Obama, is pretty far left, and courting the center, and Senator McCain is reasonably centrist and courting the far right. The media pushes these things to manufacture a story ... they can build a flip-flop out of any statements they can craft as misstatements.

It's not the condidate, its the system. Those that stand up to take a firm and consistant stand, rarely last past the point where there are still six people in the primary race. By the time we get down to two candidates, they are no longer people ... they are political machines, who have millions of dollars of stockholder's money invested.

Raise your hand if you truthfully believe that "President" Obama will take a strong stand against any type of abortion, or "President" McCain will promote a far right agenda.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to RacerJim)

Post #: 40

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