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RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/5/2008 9:04:43 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Gotta check my "progressive meter"....



         Well keep the results to yourself until after the general, if you wanna win.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/5/2008 9:08:07 AM   
Nashvegas


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Joined: 1/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nashvegas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59



They don`t know that he`s a centrist and always has been.They seem surprised to find out that he`s got a record of working together with conservatives.




Uh, let's see... several publications, ranging form conservative to liberal to non-partisan rank barak hussien obama as the MOST liberal member of the senate. That's not exactly being a "centerist".


And where did you get that piece of doggy poop from?

Bill Clinton was supposedly the "MOST" liberal guy when he ran.lol,Gore was called the "most" liberal senator,etc,etc.lol

John Kerry?Guess what,all of a sudden when he ran,he was the "MOST" liberal senator,blah,blah,blah.

Now it`s Mr, Obama,the mostest liberalest member of the senate.

Boy,that was hard to see come`n....

And why was Hillary the "MOST" liberal member, recently?

This sounds like a broken record,......again......


I see you don't let the facts confuse you.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/5/2008 9:17:32 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nashvegas

I see you don't let the facts confuse you.



          Nash, there are plenty of good questions to be asked about Sen. Obama's qualifications to be our next President.  This standard talking point, which has been rolled out many times before doesn't need to be on the list.


http://www.mostliberalsenator.blogspot.com/

      

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Nashvegas)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/5/2008 9:25:15 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nashvegas




I see you don't let the facts confuse you.


No link,no sourse for what you said,nothing.

Great non-answer.

Facts?

If it`s factual,prove it.

Here, you have more that just yourself to convince.

(in reply to Nashvegas)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/5/2008 2:44:14 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
Who cares the stupid people of this nation didn't do their research before the primaries.  It's too late now anyway.  We're not voting him in.  Nor are we voting McCain in.  About the only thing we have left to see is how pathetic both of them are.
Both Obama and McCain have both flopped more than a fish out of water already.  They will continue to do so to get votes of the delegates.


Being a long time resident of Arizona, I have been watching John McCain flip and flop for decades.  Believe me, I am no fan of John McCain.

But, BHO's constant talk of unspecified "change" as if all change is good change, while showing himself to be nothing more than another opportunistic, flip flopping politician truly annoys me.  It seems to me to be just another turn of this country's regular 16 year cycle of getting all excited about a "man from hope" who turns out to be nothing another hack.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/5/2008 2:57:43 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Harry,

Yes, it could very well be that Obama will be just another huge disappointment, once he gets in. (Much the same way Bush disappointed the conservatives, once he slimed his way into the oval.) But, so far at least, I'm likeing the way the guy is running his campaign. It seems like at several turns, he has done his best to hold himself above the usual "attack" crap that's been flying around. He broke with Clark over the dismissal of McCain's war record, and he has kept from joining in on some of the other petty crap that the media has been flinging at McCain...

Which I find refreshing.

In the meantime, I keep seeing McCain (controlled by his GOP "handlers") fall into line with the failed policies of Bush, and the politics of fear they subscribe to. This is what turned me off to Bob Dole, too. (Funny how Dole became a nice guy again, once he was out of the race, and away from the "GOP puppet masters."

I might not think Obama is a perfect candidate, but the option of sticking with essentially another 4 years of Bush, sickens me to the point of vomiting.

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/5/2008 4:24:27 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Best that everyone vote for the one with the good haircut then....

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/5/2008 4:25:56 PM >

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 3:53:34 AM   
DomAviator


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Joined: 4/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

1) voting age kids smell the draft in the air. If McCain gets in, they can flush their lives goodbye to support President "Botch's" pack of lies. So they are motivated to vote, and to vote Democratic in huge numbers.


This is completely absurd. There is no "draft in the air"... There is no place for a draft in the modern military. The days of massed bodies with rifles are long past. The modern military needs skilled technicians not any schmuck they can teach to fire a gun. Even the infantry now is a highly skilled career field, with training requirements well beyond what they can teach some schlemeel pulled in for a year. I mean for christs sake, even regular infantrymen now use night vision goggles, they deploy from helicopters, they work with advanced systems, thermal imaging, GPS, etc etc etc. The days of "Hey Bubba just point your gun at the other guys and do what your Sgt tells you to" are loooooooooooong past.

It is my understanding that Army Basic is something like 9 or 10 weeks now, and then something like 12 or 13 weeks of school, for a regular soldier. So you are looking at almost 6 months from the time somone gets off the bus till the time they hit their first real assignment as a grunt. If they go airborne add another month, If they go Special Forces or EOD or one of the other much needed specialities - add like 40+ weeks to the above.

The modern military has no need for unmotivated short term conscripts who really dont want to be there. They are recruting motivated patriotic people who want a challenge and some of the best job training in the world.  Any talk of a draft is simple fear mongering. The return of the draft is about as likely as the return of the WW1 era biplanes or the black powder musket....

(in reply to bipolarber)
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RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 7:08:05 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       Personally, I think there is an "only Nixon could go to China" element to a return to compulsory military service.  When it comes back, it will have to come from a liberal Democrat.

     

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 7:23:38 AM   
atursvcMaam


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Joined: 5/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

It's the way the game is always played. Once you get past primaries, where you play to the base, you enter the general election, and have to move to the center in order to gain the maximum of the swing vote.

Things that will work in Obama's favor.

1) voting age kids smell the draft in the air. If McCain gets in, they can flush their lives goodbye to support President "Botch's" pack of lies. So they are motivated to vote, and to vote Democratic in huge numbers.

2) A vast number of "Dittoheads" have become disillusioned. Realizing that having a permanent GOP majority would NOT have led to the "conservative utopia" they were promised, but rather a near dictatorship, they will swing back toward the center.

3) The average American is seeing the quagmire in Iraq, homes being forclosed on, gas spiralling out of control, jobs being lost by the tens of thousands... recession... and the fact that the rich are STILL getting richer, and they (the middle income folk) are being pushed off a cliff... They are motivated to try something different.

4) McCain is old (really old), and has a temper.He has been called, by several commentators, the "You kids get off my lawn!" candidate.

5) Everyone with half a brain can see how much McCain has changed since his earlier run for office. "The Straight Talk Express" has become an inside joke.


Things that will work for McCain...

1) He was shot down and was tortured. Americans love to vote for a war hero.

2) He has a rich, smokin' hot wife.

3) He has the wealth of relying on the last 8 years of GOP successes to bouy him up. With such a popular President in office as "Junior," how could he lose?


On the Obama side:
Look carefully at the actions, not so much the words.

1.  Look pretty carefully at which party has been trying to reinstate the draft for the past 5 years or so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_Initiative
Charlie Rangel is, and always has been, a Democrat.

2.   From a Ditto head stand point, Mr McCain has to make a few steps right to become a centrist.  Yes, the Conservative Utopia did not arrive even with a working majority.  Reality sucks, doesn't it. 

3.  Obama's view of gas prices was that $4.00/gallon  gas is a good thing, but was simply premature. While conservation may be good for the environment, spiraling prices due to transportation costs, and facility shutdowns because of energy cost concerns will not improve the employment picture, and will increase inflation (example: Carter years in office).

Granted, McCain, based on age and record is not a stellar candidate, but he appears to be the better of the 2 choices.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 7:29:31 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I am a Republican that would vote for a 'Black', if her name was Condelisa Rice..She unfortunately will not be our next President..


You mean another warmongering 'war on terror' neocon ? It was she who publically said...along with Bush and Cheney, that nobody could have imagined terrorists hijacking jet airliners and using them as missiles. ALL the while all 3 knew that the FBI and Air Force among other agencies of the govt. had been studying and working on just exactly that ...FOR 2 YEARS prior to 9/11.

Theoretical targets...you gueesed it, the WTC and the pentagon.

How could it have been otherwise when the air force was conducting 22 possible terrorist 'drills' going on during what...you guessed it, the morning of 9/11.

(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 7:38:12 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nashvegas

I see you don't let the facts confuse you.
 

         Nash, there are plenty of good questions to be asked about Sen. Obama's qualifications to be our next President.  This standard talking point, which has been rolled out many times before doesn't need to be on the list.

http://www.mostliberalsenator.blogspot.com/
    


The experience that we are all supposed to seek wasn't there in 2000 or in 1992. Being govenor of Arkansas or Texas or any state doen't pre-qualify a candidate for the presidency just as being a war hero also does not.

Besides Bush has demonstrated most prolifically...anybody and I mean anybody...could be POUS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 7:44:52 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I can't stand Condoleeza Rice.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/6/2008 7:58:28 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 7:49:09 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I am a Republican that would vote for a 'Black', if her name was Condelisa Rice..She unfortunately will not be our next President..


You mean another warmongering 'war on terror' neocon ? It was she who publically said...along with Bush and Cheney, that nobody could have imagined terrorists hijacking jet airliners and using them as missiles. ALL the while all 3 knew that the FBI and Air Force among other agencies of the govt. had been studying and working on just exactly that ...FOR 2 YEARS prior to 9/11.

Theoretical targets...you gueesed it, the WTC and the pentagon.

How could it have been otherwise when the air force was conducting 22 possible terrorist 'drills' going on during what...you guessed it, the morning of 9/11.


Does that mean that if there were "warmongering" souls in power 2 years earlier, this would have been prevented?  The crowd in power now were not there 2 years before 9/11.  They had only been put in place 9 months prior (by the books, January 20th 2001).  There was enough missed for everyone to own a share.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 8:08:50 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		The Fox News Factor.

Fox News Factor II

totally unashamed....

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/6/2008 8:17:41 AM >

(in reply to Raechard)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 8:12:52 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The experience that we are all supposed to seek wasn't there in 2000 or in 1992. Being govenor of Arkansas or Texas or any state doen't pre-qualify a candidate for the presidency just as being a war hero also does not.




          Nonsense, Rodg.  Granted, there is no training program for POTUS, but executive level experience as a governor at least provides a foundation.  We don't have that option this time.  That makes the stupid moves in the campaign, the position switches, and yes, even where the ___'s went to Sunday School worth noting and exploring.

         McCain is essentially a known quantity.  Obama is not. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 8:28:54 AM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		I don't care much for either candidate, but I do have a greater respect for McCain, even though I disagree with his politics & stands on many issues. 

I really don't like the term flip-flop.  We all grow & change our minds on things as we age.  Isn't it a natural progression?  Things that were important to me 20 years ago, are not quite as important as they once were.  Things were unimportant to me 20 years ago are now of critical importance to me.  Don't we all change our minds now & again as we become better educated on the issues & what goes on behind the scenes to make up these same issues? 

I also really don't like it when I hear so & so voted for this & so & so didn't vote for that.  It fails to give me a total picture.  Usually, we aren't privy to the other things that might be tied to a vote for or against whatever it was.  It may be simply that voting one way or another was packaged with something that was important to many.

And lastly, if our politicians are voted on for the people, to represent us, it really shouldn't matter as much as it does what that politicians beliefs & stances are.  They should be representing us, even if doing so runs counter to their core beliefs.  I really think that is one of the major pitfalls of politics today.  

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 8:42:11 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Personally, I think there is an "only Nixon could go to China" element to a return to compulsory military service.  When it comes back, it will have to come from a liberal Democrat.

    








Considering only liberal democrats have suggested and supported a draft(since the 9/11 attacks),you may be correct.

Somehow,the cons think a draft will be an admission of failure a repudiation of present policy.I never understood why that was or why they`re against forming a draft today.

The dems have been yelling for years that the army and national guard are at the breaking point and need relief.

The bushies just hire more Blackwater mercenaries, to hide the extent of the problem.


I would only support a draft where nobody gets a deferment,nobody.

Two years military w/ full GI benefits or 3 years non-military w/out benefits.Your choice.
                                        

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 9:25:45 AM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		I am one of those who is against the draft.  Why should our young ones have to go fight in a war that was none of their making. This one, never should have happened.  Had we had a leader who was worth his salt, I have my doubts that 911 would have ever happened.

I did not give birth to my offspring, so they could go off & fight in a war I am against for people who really don't appreciate what we are doing over there anyway. They come here & rather than try to assimilate themselves with our culture, they expect us to embrace theirs.   If you look at the headlines every day of our men & women coming home in coffins from over there, do you really need to ask why we are against the draft?  Our army can't even supply our soldiers with enough armour to protect them. 

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Obama: Just another lying, flip-flopping, politica... - 7/6/2008 9:42:02 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to MissIsis)
Profile   Post #: 40
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