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Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 12:27:23 AM

pandoravampire

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This is directed to Dom/mes and submissives, whove begun a relationship with each other, that has gone on to change.
eg. I was in a D/s relationship as the sub, because i have another side, im no longer sub, but free to be me, all of me. So a switch.
My partner, ie. ex Dom, is adjusting along with i to the new roles in our relationship.

Things are going really well as we negotiate and communicate and learn to play in new ways, with differring dynamics. Little baby steps. We are exploring new areas for us both, which brings its own challenges.

Id be truly interested in other couples that have begun in one direction, only to take another path together. How did you adjust, or couldnt you. Was it a positive or a negative for you. What made it difficult? What helped?

As a ex sub, now switch to the same partner, its hard to step out of the comfort zone of plain role definition of D/s, but for me as a switch (for want of a better term) its far more fulfilling.
That is why ive posted this ? here, to see if there are any Dom's who switch and so i can learn from that perspective. Please feel free to answer privately via message, if not to this thread. Me thinks the political correctness button maybe pushed a little with this one.

regards
pandoravampire

Post #: 1

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 12:38:45 AM

MalevolentLyset

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Maybe I am being just a bit too technical but I, personally, dont think there is a thing called a switch. Someone is either Dom or sub, YET, I believe in something called hierarchy of subs. Some people, even though submissive, may be stronger than another submissive. Same with Doms. I've met a few that I swore could be a sub, but it was just that they lacked alot of motivation and drive to show their dominant side. Or..laziness. Perhaps even though the sub I am merely stronger than they were?? I dont know, there are my two cents worth.

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 2

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 2:15:00 AM

pandoravampire

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Blimey, there's a opinion and a half! very interesting.

well, im neither of those. Im me. I dont just want to play either end of the spectrum, i want to play all along it. My sexuality is not a polarity, its a spectrum that i dip in and out of all along its course.
But in this politically correct lifestyle, where you MUST fit into a box, someone who chooses to be both, because they are both, gets labled a switch.

a switch = being either too lazy to be a sub, or lacking sufficient motivation to be a dom-
though this is kinda a little off track, id still like to respond:
when im submissive, ill do anything i can to please him, his pleasure is my pleasure, he has all the control and i love how we play like this.
When im not a submitting, i like to do things to him. I like the power to be mine or to share it. I feast for myself on him, i get off on the buzz from doing things to him. And ill go as far as is safe for me to do so. Dont sound neither lazy nor unmotivated to me. Just both ends of the spectrum and all thats in between

Your opinion of what a switch is, is actually pretty offensive. And very niave. But it is your opinion, and welcome. and it is one that is shared by many. But its kinda like saying a Dom/me is a lazy bugger who wants it all their way, someone who perhaps has never learnt the social skills of adaptability and compromise isnt it? But that false belief is not a reality. Just an uneducated guess. But a often held misconception of dom/mes from those outside the lifestyle.

Though i would describe my sexuality as mecurial and fluid rather than the bdsm word switch, my partner was pure Dom, hence this post. For him, and therefor i, its difficult to make adjustments, but not impossible. Having a loving partner you want to share your life with who's your best friend, is more important than having a submissive 24/7 to us. But understand others would not chose our path and thats fine for them.

Surely there are Dom's here who bottom occasionally, or enjoy sensation play from their submissive? or s/m play in reverse for a change.
There are certainly people who post in collarme who identify as Dom's who have a maso side for instance. So i know your out there. Id just like to read your views and suggestions.

and thankyou for posting MalevolentLyset

(in reply to MalevolentLyset)

Post #: 3

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 7:35:21 AM

siamsa24

Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
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This is the reason that I often describe my relationship as "odd"
Most of the time we are a semi-typical (whatever that is) Daddy/little girl couple, but then again I top from the bottom almost all the time and then every couple of days or so I switch and top him. It's fun for the both of us and it gives me a chance to have fun with my dominant side and allows him to submit once in a while.

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 4

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 7:41:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalevolentLyset
Maybe I am being just a bit too technical but I, personally, dont think there is a thing called a switch.

That's pretty much like saying you don't think there is a thing called a bisexual. Some people ARE oriented to be both dominant and submissive, depending on the relationship.

In my relationship with the boyfriend, we pretty much started out solely with me as the "dominant" partner and slowly evolved into topping/bottoming switching between eachother. If was just a series of babysteps and going with what we felt good with.

However, two key elements are in place here. Both of us knew before the relationship that we had both topping and bottoming desires within us, and there was never a D/s dynamic as the basis of our relationship. I never had actual authority over him and his behavior and neither did he.

This issue is no different than any partner who suddenly grows into a new part of themselves. The other partner hopefully grows into some adjustment and good place WITH them. If not, there can be accommodations made to a certain point, but it maybe become too much of a change for the other person to handle.

(in reply to MalevolentLyset)

Post #: 5

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 9:39:20 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalevolentLyset

Maybe I am being just a bit too technical but I, personally, dont think there is a thing called a switch. Someone is either Dom or sub, YET, I believe in something called hierarchy of subs. Some people, even though submissive, may be stronger than another submissive. Same with Doms. I've met a few that I swore could be a sub, but it was just that they lacked alot of motivation and drive to show their dominant side. Or..laziness. Perhaps even though the sub I am merely stronger than they were?? I dont know, there are my two cents worth.

Wow...that's like saying there's no such thing as a bi or pan sexual--just people who haven't figured out if they're straight or gay yet.

I'm most definatly -not- a switch, but the first couple to whom I belong are what I'd call 100% switches. Hell, they switch with each other as it feels good. Some individuals simply have the desire to be both, in just about equal proportions.

The individuals I'm talking about wouldn't be happy if they -always- bottomed or -always- topped. In fact, they wouldn't be happy if they were always bottoming to one person and always topping everyone else. They simply need a switch dynamic with every partner they are with. This is one of the things that ended up ending our relationship (amicably, incedentally) I don't switch.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MalevolentLyset)

Post #: 6

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 10:45:10 AM

Kasia

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From: The Coast of Adria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalevolentLyset

Maybe I am being just a bit too technical but I, personally, dont think there is a thing called a switch.

I personally think that in fact there is not such thing as being 100% dom/sub but only switches, yet some of them havent discovered their "other" side. They may be 99% doms but still having that 1% of "subbish" qualities.
So let me be too technical too and have my opinion of dom/sub being just subordinate term for explaining preferances in switches - who we all are

And when someone yells about being true DomlyDom with no chance of even dreaming being sub that reminds me when "straight" men freak out at simple word gay. In all probability they are latent homosexuals, only so frightened of the fact they even dont want to admit to themselves. When someone is too defensive about something, its usually just the other way around.

_____________________________

I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to MalevolentLyset)

Post #: 7

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 12:33:54 PM

MalevolentLyset

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Never intended to offend anyone. And I was only calling those Doms that I had met that refused to get up off the couch the entire weekend I was there lazy or unmotivated. I asked where the bathroom was, he pointed to his bedroom and said "Its back there." I asked where the towels was, "In the linen closet." I asked where the linen closet was, "Its back there." And he continued to watch tv. I can fend for myself (I found all things I needed on my own.) but I was looking for his manners or eagerness and failed to find either. I do believe there is a choice about being bisexual. And now that I take it from that perspective, I do see what you are saying.

I'll take that one.

(in reply to Kasia)

Post #: 8

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 1:03:46 PM

LaDee

Posts: 67
Joined: 10/22/2005
From: VA
Status: offline

Hello,

I recently went faced a situation similiar too this situation at first I was upset,disappointed and in shock. When he first presented himself too Me he represented himself as a sub needing to find his Queen/Mistress too share his life with. I collared him earlier this year and things are going well other than discovering he is a swich not a sub.

But after careful consideration I decided too hang around and see where this goes, in the bedroom I am totally in control! He is better with finances so for now he handles that for now, and W/we both do houseqork,yardwork, etc. together.

I am sure lots people will have something too say about this but I have to live My life(not looking for approval just adding My opinion)

La'Dee

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 9

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 1:12:29 PM

FangsNfeet

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Joined: 12/3/2004
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I can't say that my pet is a switch but she has habbits of wanting to slap back from time to time as well as sneaking in some swats on my bum now and then. She also seems to enjoy scratching, picking, and poping every bump or pimple in end up getting when I'm not paying attention. Weither it's out of wanting to be in trouble or just a bad habbit that can't be broken, my belt and switch make due with her actions.

As far as this switch role you are doing, is it switching D/s or M/s or both? I'm curious as there are those Doms who demand pain on themselves from time to time. A Dom who demands pain to be inflicted upon his/her own body is still a Dom who had a sub follow through with an order.

< Message edited by FangsNfeet -- 11/10/2005 1:15:25 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 10

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 1:20:02 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
She also seems to enjoy scratching, picking, and poping every bump or pimple in end up getting when I'm not paying attention. Weither it's out of wanting to be in trouble or just a bad habbit that can't be broken, my belt and switch make due with her actions.

It's a very common nervous habit, especially so amongst those with OCD or Body Dysmorphic Disorder.

You can either break it from her slowly, replace it with another habit, or keep it contained to particular times/places.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 11

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 2:20:18 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pandoravampire

This is directed to Dom/mes and submissives, whove begun a relationship with each other, that has gone on to change.
eg. I was in a D/s relationship as the sub, because i have another side, im no longer sub, but free to be me, all of me. So a switch.
My partner, ie. ex Dom, is adjusting along with i to the new roles in our relationship.

This happened to me and I gloried in it. Libby was at first reluctant to release her dominant side since she felt it would weaken the feelings of submission she has to me but if anything it's intensified it. We often double-team as dominants but we also have play partners with whom we play solo.

The problems haven't been scene bases but as Janet Hardy puts it "The Tyranny of the Clock." We have to make sure that each of us is sure the other is number one in our hearts.

As an aside, from years of observation, I think "switch" may be the eventual default setting for most of us. Even though I do not enjoy submitting or bottoming, I suspect that may be from a rather tramatic nonconsensual experience. I look at my friends, Dossie Easton, Jay Wiseman, Len Dworkin, Janet Hardy, Michelle Buchannan, and notice that they are all long time participants and also switches. Even Travis, the singletail god, has dangled from Fakir's flesh hooks. It's age and experience I suspect. Once one gets one's side of the river explored, the other side becomes more and more interesting.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 12

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 9:38:52 PM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalevolentLyset

Maybe I am being just a bit too technical but I, personally, dont think there is a thing called a switch. Someone is either Dom or sub, YET, I believe in something called hierarchy of subs. Some people, even though submissive, may be stronger than another submissive. Same with Doms. I've met a few that I swore could be a sub, but it was just that they lacked alot of motivation and drive to show their dominant side. Or..laziness. Perhaps even though the sub I am merely stronger than they were?? I dont know, there are my two cents worth.

Not to highjack the thread here, but I disagree. I have a very definite submissive side and an equally definite dominant side. I don't consider myself too "lazy" to be submissive, because I am submissive. And I am not lacking motivation to be dominant because I am dominant. It just happens that with some people I am dominant, and with other people, submissive. It is how I naturally react, and it is not something that I can control. I don't know how to explain that better, so I hope that's sufficient.

I guess the best way to view a switch is to see one at work. I'm sure it's odd for some of my friends to see me in full on dom mode. I'm teasing and cruel and vicious. I drawn strength from the pain and suffering of a bottom, in S&M play. Or, I am soft and nurturing and liberating, teaching a submissive to let go of inhibitions in a comforting but controlled environment. But I can also be swept into my dominant's arms and cry on his shoulder, or be a little four year old girl, cuddled up on his lap while holding a blankie or a teddy bear. Both of these parts of me make up the whole me, and neither of them is lacking.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to MalevolentLyset)

Post #: 13

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/10/2005 10:07:56 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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Joined: 6/25/2004
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quote:

This is directed to Dom/mes and submissives, whove begun a relationship with each other, that has gone on to change.

If the question is in regards to play top vs bottom, I don't think I would personally have a problem with switching roles especially since I have limited experience, and am open to learning more from a considerate gentleman/partner/lover, as long as he is respectful and kind in his approach, and I don't hate what he suggests/wants.

As for finding that the submissive I'm getting to know is a switch or more of a dominant, I have, and for me it's called a short lived relationship. If after I explain my position and reasons, the time comes for one of us to submit and no one does, this lady allows some time for reflection (especially on the submissive's part), than she calls it a mismatch and releases him onto the world to pursue the right match for him... Unless love creeped in, and in that case, I don't think power struggles would be happening anyway. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 14

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/11/2005 4:03:27 PM

theRose4U

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quote:

When he first presented himself too Me he represented himself as a sub needing to find his Queen/Mistress too share his life with. I collared him earlier this year and things are going well other than discovering he is a swich not a sub.

But after careful consideration I decided too hang around and see where this goes, in the bedroom I am totally in control! He is better with finances so for now he handles that for now, and W/we both do houseqork,yardwork, etc. together.

Speaking as a female switch that was given the opportunity to just be me, I am relieved to see that there are also Dommes out there with open minds when it comes to switches. My one realized that my strength and dominance were assets to be honed not weeds to be removed. Once he made a statement that truly made my heart melt during a conversation about me being so dominant in the workplace but meek with him. It was something along the lines of, why would I want a kitten in my lap obeying and waiting for my whims when I have a tiger at my feet that doesn't kill me out of respect.

(in reply to LaDee)

Post #: 15

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/12/2005 1:30:37 PM

pandoravampire

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theRose4u

quote:

why would I want a kitten in my lap obeying and waiting for my whims when I have a tiger at my feet that doesn't kill me out of respect.

i like that quote, lovely

We have been able to work things out for us. That is for me to be submssive, but im being encouraged to explore the more 'top' side of me in play. For me in our relationship, i view these moments not as me submitting or dominating, just me having a ball with the man i love. I go into this play with no holes barred/anything goes, i just do what i want to do, could give a rats arse what its called. He then can say, just like a vanilla partner would, that was great, this bit is not so great etc etc and we are learning as we progress.

I simply was not able to be this free and expressive because of the way i viewed 'submission'. Yet now i dont call this play anything but fun, i can do whatever i enjoy which coz of the way im wired, is what he is enjoying. So its all good. Words labels and names are a hurdle i find.

i have a new safe word. this to be used outside of play when i cannot be submissive. Which if im stressed out, is quite often. In order to achieve life's deadlines, i have to get active, assertive and become less and less submissive as the deadlines approach or the stress levels rise.

For some odd reason? since throwing out labels which had defined our roles within the D/s relationship, i am liberated. I am free to express all of me, not just the politically correct side. (gee that shits me). And the freedom that i now allow myself in the bedroom is producing so much more laundry, but i dont mind lol.

This new found freedom and obvious increase in letting go on my side, has had a echo in his behaviour. As i get filthier with what i want to do and express this, so does he when its his turn = bloody brilliant if you ask me!

We both are growing and learning together.

In my past when ive played at being a top, i would have a heightened sense of power, if the person i was playing with had originally not thought they would submit. It was more of a challenge/thrill to have them respond so wantenly to my administrations. To of succumbed to my topping. For some Dom/mes, to grab a switch and convert her/him to submission only, is perhaps a similar challenge? But one that will only ever be partially successful surely.

life is good for me and mine. Allways was, but now, its soooooo much better. Like someone has coloured it in for me! Having a ball is how life should be.

But the shock for my Dom of me saying i no longer thought i could submit, and for me of no longer having that beautiful world to climb into at the end of my busy dominant day at work, sure did take some negotiating through. What i had thought was the end of our D/s has turned out to be a beginning of something truly wonderful and fullfilling in a way previously i had not been able to attain. Growing pains were well worth it for the lessons we have learned together. And for what i have learned personally about myself and him.

Thankyou for sharing how others deal with this side of their selves when they are in a D/s relationship. Its nice to know, that others are not restrained by titles and protcol.

pandoravampire

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 16

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/12/2005 2:08:40 PM

theRose4U

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Honestly this is not as hard an arrangement to come to as you seem to think. Being Dom/me or switch or sub all work in tandem for mutual pleasure. The idea that to be one way you can't have the other is rediculous. In my arrangement I was Queen leader and Captain of the hu rah for 50 men (very Domme place to be) to him I was still me but able to be more caring, submissive and womanly. As an alpha it was easy for him to allow me to be myself and still kind enough to reign me in when necessary. While I don't think that this is something that any ole Domly Dom could agree to it worked for us.
If anything for me it was an added resource for my professional skill set and clicked as an extension of my "true" self. Hard as steel & soft as silk. Because your Dom is used to you being one way this may be an adjustment for him. But I would challenge you that if you'd been honest with yourself all this time...being you with a BDSM manners set you wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place.

quote:

But the shock for my Dom of me saying i no longer thought i could submit, and for me of no longer having that beautiful world to climb into at the end of my busy dominant day at work, sure did take some negotiating through.

It seems to me that these kinds of things would have been going on since the beginning of the relationship

quote:

have a new safe word. this to be used outside of play when i cannot be submissive. Which if im stressed out, is quite often. In order to achieve life's deadlines, i have to get active, assertive and become less and less submissive as the deadlines approach or the stress levels rise.

How did you handle stress before? It seems to me that this is an opportunity for your Dom to be more nurturing and reassuring, not a time to safeword out & tell him to back off because you want to give into the stress. Just how I know it worked for me.

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 17

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/12/2005 3:16:09 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

People change over time...

My girl (fairly new when we first got together) has developed in ways that amaze me every day.. she is more self confident and assured, she accomplishes a lot for the community, and makes me pretty proud. These are all things that she was not capable of at the time we first met.

Some people change and desire to try new things. Perhaps they desire to get better educated, perhaps they want to try topping someone, perhaps they want a better position in their company or outside....

Perhaps sometimes they change in ways we are not comfortable with...

The only thing to do is to speak with your partner and ensure that their mind is wrappoing about htese changes and they are not becoming uncomfortable of self conscious.

Other than that - go with it.. see where it leads.

As long as they are not going into some area that you are not comfortable with for whatever reason) there should be no issue.

~J

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 18

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/13/2005 10:57:05 AM

firestrikes

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Joined: 8/19/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline

I totally relate to Pandora's comment about throwing out labels and what that does for intentional mental liberation. I have been wondering about this topic since joining this site and am so gratified to see it being discussed here - thanks for the thread, PandoraVampire. I am new to this community so my learning curve is very steep, but I have never been one to fit into many boxes, societally speaking, and so it is refreshing to find others with similar experiences.

I live for the integration and evolution of human consciousness, wanting to witness that here on the planet, in my lifetime. I can only change myself, and this world of play has been particularly effective at escalating positive change for me - thanks in huge measure to the sensitivity and intent of my masterful partner. Yes, yes, yes... I live, breathe and express along a continuum of this lifestyle spectrum - no one word or phrase will cover everything I want to explore and discover. Why should I limit myself? Like Pandora, I am wired with complexity and curiosity - I want to immerse in everything that comes to mind and spirit, irregardless if the inspiration is contained within someone else's predefined conceptual framework. I personally don't need a framework to work within - I create spontaneously and in free form... this is simply what works for me. Thank you so much for putting yourself out here in view - your offering has made my day!

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 19

RE: Has your sub turned out to be a switch? - 11/13/2005 11:31:03 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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i peronaly might be called a switch i guess, though i dont like the term, i am always submissive, but i can get into a sadistic mood and might like to top somone, though i never have, but i do not want the authority of being a dom, only a bit of pain play that is as far as my switchiness go.

(in reply to firestrikes)

Post #: 20

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