good old days

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MastersPet46 -> good old days (11/10/2005 2:33:53 PM)
I have read and listened to so many people and their posts. I havent felt the need for comment until now. PLease know that what I am sharing is not spoken to offend or to cause Flame from others that disagree with me. I understand some may have a problem with what I have to say.. But for the majority that read this.. I dont feel it will offend them. I was new to online BDSM. I watched for a few yrs how the trend soared to some outragous product of imagination. Very few people in the early years were actively" out of the closet" And would admit socialy that they were apart of the stigma of BDSM. There was a code of honor back then. The good old days.. With integrity and honesty .. honesty to ourselves for what we wanted.. and the integrity to stand for All responsibilities involved in this lifestyle. The freedom that was found in this lifestyle was the fact that WE all as A People for BDSM could count on each other for trust and respect. We all had to pay our dues and learn. There was a comaradary between Doms and submissives.. We at one time had the same focus. If we all lived to the standards of the Vanillia life.. of distrust and hiding behind lies. Then there was no difference to US .. The standards back then in the good old days were set up,To raise all of Us above the weakness of Vanila or straight world. We had the power of many.. and the power of standing united. To teach to learn.. to guide.. What is happening now is sad.. The whole realm has turned into a fiasco of using flesh and forgetting the mind.. Using people and forgetting the heart.. Telling stories and forgetting the truth.. I truely wish there were more old timers of the lifestyle that would teach more publicly.. and I wish there were more people willing to listen. Anyway.. my heart was full.. and had to say my peice.. thankyou for listening

ImpGrrl -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 2:36:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MastersPet46 I have read and listened to so many people and their posts. I havent felt the need for comment until now. PLease know that what I am sharing is not spoken to offend or to cause Flame from others that disagree with me. I understand some may have a problem with what I have to say.. But for the majority that read this.. I dont feel it will offend them. I was new to online BDSM. I watched for a few yrs how the trend soared to some outragous product of imagination. Very few people in the early years were actively" out of the closet" And would admit socialy that they were apart of the stigma of BDSM. There was a code of honor back then. The good old days.. With integrity and honesty .. honesty to ourselves for what we wanted.. and the integrity to stand for All responsibilities involved in this lifestyle. The freedom that was found in this lifestyle was the fact that WE all as A People for BDSM could count on each other for trust and respect. We all had to pay our dues and learn. There was a comaradary between Doms and submissives.. We at one time had the same focus. If we all lived to the standards of the Vanillia life.. of distrust and hiding behind lies. Then there was no difference to US .. The standards back then in the good old days were set up,To raise all of Us above the weakness of Vanila or straight world. We had the power of many.. and the power of standing united. To teach to learn.. to guide.. What is happening now is sad.. The whole realm has turned into a fiasco of using flesh and forgetting the mind.. Using people and forgetting the heart.. Telling stories and forgetting the truth.. I truely wish there were more old timers of the lifestyle that would teach more publicly.. and I wish there were more people willing to listen. Anyway.. my heart was full.. and had to say my peice.. thankyou for listening In a word - hogwash. People are people are people - and always have been. "We" are no better/worse than "them". The people in BDSM are simply a subset of people in the general world - "we" do not corner the market on honesty, integrity, or whatever values we'd like to claim.

sub4hire -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 2:38:06 PM)
quote: What is happening now is sad.. The whole realm has turned into a fiasco of using flesh and forgetting the mind.. Using people and forgetting the heart.. Telling stories and forgetting the truth.. I truely wish there were more old timers of the lifestyle that would teach more publicly.. and I wish there were more people willing to listen. Anyway.. my heart was full.. and had to say my peice.. thankyou for listening There are, every major city that I've been to in the US has a group of these people. BDSM people at that. They all go by different names. Usually trying to use the old guard facade. New old guard. Refined old guard. Etc..etc. I cannot speak for those cities in which I have not personally been to. Though I am pretty well traveled and everywhere I've been I've sought out the lifestyle there. Sometimes there are only a couple people who come out into the open and in other places you get 100 people at a gathering. It is tough finding people sometimes but well worth it when you do. If you watch the board's and watch what people say. You will find some you like and dislike here. Though you must read what other's have to say about themselves. What we say about ourselves speaks volumes if you are looking close enough.

TheHungryTiger -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 2:42:58 PM)
When a right wing christian conservative goes around telling others what they should or should not be doing with their sex life, thats judgmental and wrong. People are quite right to reject it. When a "old timer" goes around telling others what they should or should not be doing with their sex life, thats ~training~. When people reject that it is "not being willing to learn".

ImpGrrl -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 2:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHungryTiger When a right wing christian conservative goes around telling others what they should or should not be doing with their sex life, thats judgmental and wrong. People are quite right to reject it. When a "old timer" goes around telling others what they should or should not be doing with their sex life, thats ~training~. When people reject that it is "not being willing to learn". OMG, is that what I've been doing wrong? I really should listen more to my elders!!

wipmebeetme100 -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 3:03:25 PM)
quote: There was a code of honor back then. The good old days.. With integrity and honesty .. honesty to ourselves for what we wanted.. and the integrity to stand for All responsibilities involved in this lifestyle. The freedom that was found in this lifestyle was the fact that WE all as A People for BDSM could count on each other for trust and respect. We all had to pay our dues and learn. There was a comaradary between Doms and submissives.. We at one time had the same focus. Masters Pet, As i have only been involved in the lifestyle for a short 6 years i of course was not around to witness what you write of first hand. You are not the first person to have this very same thought. Many of the people i associate with in this lifestyle have stated the very same thing. It saddens me that i have missed this era. My friends talk of the day when one earned their leathers, how much more meaningful it was. Nowadays any one with the price of a set of leathers can come to a function dressed to the nines and declare themselves a Master. I believe that what you describe can still be found to a degree in the Leather Communities. Yes, i am one of those people who believe that there is a distinct difference in the Leather Community and the BDSM Community. I also believe that it is our lack of honesty, integrity and respect that has allowed outsiders to enter our world in a negative way with their laws, etc. When we no longer hold WIITWD sacred...how can we expect anyone else to? We open ourselves up to attack. Our weakness is becoming evident to others through the lack of tolerance, fighting amongst established groups, and very important... our failure to insist upon accountability. I can't change the community as a whole, but i can do all in my power to be a good example. Peace, cathy

strongnsubmissiv -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 3:40:19 PM)
I can confirm, even with our local community, that as the faces come and go, there certainly seems to be more people involved with BDSM lately who are part of the trendy, and it could be that this is part of the frustration you're seeing pet. The truth is though that the particular folk that you remember are still out there. For me i try to keep my perspective the same, and that is bdsm is all about compatibility and freedom. I don't need to appeal to some sort of panel of "old guard folk" to earn my leathers etc. I mean if that's the kind of lifestyle you seek, by all means have fun, and hopefully you'll be able to find a compatible partner who shares in your sexual likes. Why should i reform my own sexuality to fit nicely into someone elses ideas of how i should be? I spent enough time pretending to be vanilla, and it's why i came to the bdsm community in the first place. sns

SirSix72 -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 3:49:32 PM)
greetings MastersPet46, I know where you are coming from and the new generation is only concerned with their instant gratification. I dont see honor and integrity anymore. This is about more than sex and fitting into a neatly packed box. I will stand strong with my convictions in tact throuhg the onslaught of the new movement in the BDSM lifestyle. It is almost like a fad now a days and I dont see lots earning their leather. Master Six

swtnsparkling -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 4:01:56 PM)
quote: There was a code of honor back then. The good old days.. With integrity and honesty .. honesty to ourselves for what we wanted.. and the integrity to stand for All responsibilities involved in this lifestyle. The freedom that was found in this lifestyle was the fact that WE all as A People for BDSM could count on each other for trust and respect. Thank You

LadyJulieAnn -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 4:09:29 PM)
It's interesting to read that you view the vanilla/straight world as "weak". If you find weakness in the vanilla world, I think you will most likely find weakness in any other lifestyle you choose. Choosing to particpate in a D/s lifestyle does not raise you above anyone else, in my opinion. I would ask, why and how are you functioning differently in the "D/s world" (other than the obvious differences as far as interests) from the "vanilla world"? Those who choose to take it seriously still do so, but they may not be choosing to live their lives according to your view. If you can show me proof that none of the deceit, using, and lying was going on back in the good old days, I'd be impressed. I believe the internet just makes it more visible to everyone. Be well, Julie

MastersPet46 -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 4:25:42 PM)
Yes Lady.. You are right about the internet making things more visable.. And maybe that is the why soo much of the abuse happens. I wasnt expecting this much attention to this Post. YOu asked me about the weakness of vanillia.. In the regular straight world.. More people have a tendancey to hide what they want.. And find ways of manipulation to get it. There was a time that the comunities werent an online situation. Most all you dealt with was "in person" or face to face. Alot of times it was only by referal to meet a new group. It does take away alot of personal feelings to be able to chat on a computer than have to see the person face to face. To the others that have responded.. I suppose the whole focus on the reason I posted this.. was because it is very rare anymore that I meet in person or online someone that can be who they claim to be.. I realize I am not alone with this deception that happens online. But .. I had it on my mind to share..

OscarHargraves -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 4:44:01 PM)
I have to agree that, in general, honor and trust and even good manners have fallen by the wayside in many respects. This is an unfortunate result of our newer, faster, electronic world. I try very hard not to let that happen to me. As for the learning, I, for one, would gladly take the chance to learn from the more experienced among us if that opportunity would present itself.

IronBear -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 6:31:00 PM)
When right wing Christians tell me that what I do or believe in is wrong, I start reaching for a gun. (I only start mind you for they are not worth jail time). When some one in the life style, any life style I'm involved in starts terlling me what I'm doing o0r talking about is wrong, (except on CM), I start to haul back ready to drop them flat on their back. (Again I only start ~ reflex action). At least with these people I can usually get some form of rational conversation going. In many cases. I'm sure, the problem isn't the offer of guidance but the way it is offered. If you turn to me and say "Have you concidered trying it this way?" I'll listen and probably try it that way. If you blast up and tell me I'm wrong you have a choice of be dropping you cold or placing you in the refuse bin for your crass rudeness. This problem is not restricted to BDSM and all the associated lifestyles such as Gor. It is common in many areas. the Pagan communities and especially the Wiccans are rife with fluff bunnies who read a book (often badly copied from a good source) and think they dont need teaching or guidence from those who have done the hard yards. Its the way society has developed encouraging the youth to look for instant gratification and avoid the hard work.

Noah -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 6:53:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MastersPet46 What is happening now is sad.. The whole realm has turned into a fiasco of using flesh and forgetting the mind.. Using people and forgetting the heart.. Telling stories and forgetting the truth.. I truely wish there were more old timers of the lifestyle that would teach more publicly.. and I wish there were more people willing to listen. Anyway.. my heart was full.. and had to say my peice.. thankyou for listening There's a song that says we glorify the past when our future dries up. I hear your pain old timer but I don't feel it. Like everyone I engage with I'm selective about ... whom I engage with. Over the past ten years I've met and gotten to know and, you know, pounded on, a whole bunch of fantastic people. They and I have made mistakes. We try to forgive, let go and move forward, together or separately on whatever terms seem best. Works fairly good and when it doesn't seem to work that usually turns out to be my fault. And the fault is usually fixable by a process of: forgiving, letting go and moving forward. It aches sometimes but it works. The way I see it all the other alternatives boil down to kidding yourself anyway. As for the "whole realm", maybe the reason I don't keep meeting the people you're complaining about is that I studiously follow The Realm Rule: Stay The Fuck Outa Realms. You want old timers teaching publicly, that's what bookshelves are for, right? When I want tips from the past about power and lust and decency and sucking the juice out of life I can grab the Vedas or the Psalms or Lao Tzu; Rumi or Rilke or Shakespeare; Kinnell or Neruda or Tuware. I did it this morning before work. Never fails to satisfy. Or maybe you'd rather soak up the visual wisdom of Vermeer or Van Gogh; Whistler or Wyeth; Kahlo or Kandinski. Or the aural wisdom of Wagner or Monk or Hank Williams or R.L. Burnside. School's open every day and lots of people are attending. Then you just tie your shoes and walk out into today which, when you factor in all the factors, is always a better place to live than yesterday.

Kasia -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 7:42:50 PM)
Yeah, everything in the world (including sex and people and icecream) was better when I was 20. Or wait a minute, when I start remembering correctly....... [:D]

bladerunner5 -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 8:01:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MastersPet46 I was new to online BDSM. I watched for a few yrs how the trend soared to some outragous product of imagination. Very few people in the early years were actively" out of the closet" And would admit socialy that they were apart of the stigma of BDSM. There was a code of honor back then. The good old days.. With integrity and honesty .. honesty to ourselves for what we wanted.. and the integrity to stand for That's crap. I've been involved in my public community for 10 years. There was the same percentage of idiots, assholes, and nifty-cool people then as there is now. Which is amazingly similar to the percentages of said folks in my vanilla life. And everyone I've talked with who's been around longer than I have says pretty much the same thing. People are people. Bladerunner's two cents "Men would rather believe than know." -Edmund O. Wilson

starshineowned -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 8:08:34 PM)
Greetings..~smiles~ Is this a view you are seeing from a online status or in real meetings of others at munches, dungeons, play partys etc? starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

FLButtSlut -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 8:12:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHungryTiger When a right wing christian conservative goes around telling others what they should or should not be doing with their sex life, thats judgmental and wrong. People are quite right to reject it. When a "old timer" goes around telling others what they should or should not be doing with their sex life, thats ~training~. When people reject that it is "not being willing to learn". I, for one, do not need an "old timer" to teach or "train" me about honesty and integrity. Those are traits that have always been a part of my life and always will be. As already stated, people are people. Dishonesty and the like have always been a part of life, bdsm or vanilla. What seems to be the trend is people complaining about a lack of honesty and integrity because everyone isn't "kneeling" to the so called "old timers" just because they have been around the scene longer, without them having proven themselves to deserve that "honor" they complain is missing.

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 8:33:22 PM)
quote: If we all lived to the standards of the Vanillia life.. of distrust and hiding behind lies. Then there was no difference to US .. The standards back then in the good old days were set up,To raise all of Us above the weakness of Vanila or straight world. Boy, if this was the thought process behind "the good old days", I'm glad I missed out. I certainly don't think that people who happen to not be kinky or D/s or whatever are distrustful or liars. On top of that, people who aren't kinky or are straight are hardly weak. Yup, certainly glad I didn't understand my own sexual orientation until 2001. Otherwise, I might be as close-minded as you seem to come across.

luvdragonx -> RE: good old days (11/10/2005 8:53:15 PM)
The same can be said about: Rap Rock Television Hollywood Clothing styles Public Education Employment Family Life Big Business Small Business Advertising Pro Sports..... I could go on, but you get the idea. Bottom line? Things change. For better or worse, I can't say for sure, but things are different now than they were 20 years ago and likely different than they will be 20 years from now. When you talk about the Next Generation there will always be something the 'Old Timers' don't like, probably because once you consider yourself an Old Timer, you're likely admitting an unwillingness to accept change. The things you wistfully describe - close knit groups with whom you could trust your life, keeping it 'in the closet' and underground-type activities - were likely done out of necessity. 20+ years ago, if you were 'outted' you would not only lose your job, but your family, any respect/comfort in your local area, and possibly be hit with criminal charges. Today there are some protections (though inadequate as of yet) against that kind of public branding and ostracism. Yes, the BDSM culture is more free because WE ARE more free. How is that a bad thing? When you start longing for days gone by and decrying the state of BDSM in the hands of these 'fresh young whipper-snappers", it's like chasing the dragon. You're not gonna get that ~one perfect high~ back no matter what you do. Best thing to do, IMO, is to shoot for a new perfection instead of chasing a pipe dream.

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