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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/10/2008 5:45:34 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
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Most people here are saying "Experienced dom + Novice sub = Good."  I agree.  A lot of points have been made to consider:

Experience in what?
Experienced, but good with novices?
How well do you get along outside of a scene?
Less experienced doms are not evil.
etc.

MadRabbit brings up one good point, if you're doing any sort of edge play, experience really does matter a lot.  Amateurs dabbled in it long ago so now our "new" can avoid those mistakes. 

I compare myself to my father... He's more experienced in this world, true.  But he's also more jaded.  He believes some things can't be done because they are not feasible or just "can't be done."  Not all people age to think this way, but some do.  This lowered fluidity is a common trend in aging*.  What does it mean for a new submissive with an older experienced dom?  He may be more set in his ways.  His ways may also be wrong, and being set in wrong ways is bad.  He may be closeminded to your needs. 

This is all such clouded waters.  There are exceptions to every rule and everyone is an exception all the time.  As others have said, this lifestyle isn't school (usually).  A fourth year is not "better" than a second year.  By that same logic, a twenty-fifth year is not automatically better than a fifth year, especially when it comes to matching you.  Perhaps you want to learn with someone?  My Pet did.

It does seem a bit foolish, trying to say that you don't learn in 20 years what someone does in less than 5, and that's not what I'm saying. 

Dominant is a bad term for what it is that we do.  I was answering to someone "what makes a dom tick?" today, and I told her that it's about teaching.  A good dominant is more accurately a sensei or maestro, as compared to "one who dominates."  Domination can be done in so many ways... and 20 years in the field can enlighten someone to some of the more brutal, calloused, interesting ones, no doubt.  But its about more than that.  How well someone makes you understand what is being taught is important. 

A control freak, who just wants things done his way, no questions asked, gets "better" at this with time.
Someone who will use you for sex and money with no exchange of training or a good experience grows callous to these actions in time. 

Those are both bad ways of dominating (If you'd like to disagree, please see me for clarification before assuming those short sentences are an effort to encapsulate the entire concept of power exchange).  A teacher, then...

Instead of asking about experience, has he ever made you think "How did he know all that about me?"





*As with all trends there are exceptions blar blar blar, that said, there's plenty of age related research that states as people age they tend to remain familiar with things they know and like.  This familiarity breeds a masterful understanding of the topic, but a (possibly) subconscious closedmindedness in other areas.  This is, of course, avoidable, although believers of the SOC (Selective Optimization and Compensation) theory would agree avoiding the selecting of key fluid skills tends to lead to a more overall decline in skills and abilities.  Other applicable findings about aging:  People do tend to lose fluid skills (speed of learning, speed at unpracticed arbitrary tasks) but crystalized knoweldge remains constant/grows with age (how the world works.)  It's important not to confuse crystalized knowledge with wisdom.  Wisdom is hard to define, but early testing shows using the definition "Able to give the most advice about an issue" Age was not a factor.  Only 5% of people were considered "wise", with professionals in the field of the question being highly (and obviously) more able to give applicable solutions.

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/10/2008 3:56:09 PM   
Jupiterfalling


Posts: 42
Joined: 6/22/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you, HeavansKeeper:)

An interesting point is how I could actually be in the "wrong hands" by being with someone who is inexperienced or simply has abuse issues with women. I'm at least too smart for the latter. This whole thing is a bit scary because I've gone through life not communicating with men and letting the chips fall where they may. Now I actually have to connect. At least to the effect that I wont be getting seriously hurt.

Teaching bears responsibility. I'm afraid to ask for a teacher in knowing that I will place a burden on someone. Again, expectations!


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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/10/2008 4:38:13 PM   
IntellectualSub1


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline 		It seems maybe the OP is just talking of a BDSM sexual experience, a scene-  and not a D/s relationship.

So, if it's someone who you are comfy with and your limits are discussed- he should respect and you should enjoy.
God! I wish that was me.



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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/10/2008 4:44:06 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jupiterfalling

Thank you, HeavansKeeper:)

An interesting point is how I could actually be in the "wrong hands" by being with someone who is inexperienced or simply has abuse issues with women. I'm at least too smart for the latter. This whole thing is a bit scary because I've gone through life not communicating with men and letting the chips fall where they may. Now I actually have to connect. At least to the effect that I wont be getting seriously hurt.

Teaching bears responsibility. I'm afraid to ask for a teacher in knowing that I will place a burden on someone. Again, expectations!



I hope so, because I promise you if your looking for someone on this site with the criteria of "Experienced" as your divinng rod for which profiles to contact, you are going to meet a higher percentage of assholes.

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/10/2008 4:54:04 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Dominant is a bad term for what it is that we do.  I was answering to someone "what makes a dom tick?" today, and I told her that it's about teaching.  A good dominant is more accurately a sensei or maestro, as compared to "one who dominates."  Domination can be done in so many ways... and 20 years in the field can enlighten someone to some of the more brutal, calloused, interesting ones, no doubt.  But its about more than that.  How well someone makes you understand what is being taught is important. 


I completely disagree with this statement. Dominant might be a bad term for what we do if we are not talking about "Dominance", but rather "Topping".

Nor does "teaching" make me tick as a Dominant in the least.

Being a Dominant is not something I learned to be but something that I simply am and always was. The only benefit from the two years of experience I have had is learning how to express that part of myself and the process of self actualization where that internal part of me came into being. I never learned how to dominate anyone. I just learned how to be the person I really am.

The girl I am seeing and the girls I have been with chose me, because I am that person and not because of any experience I have had or any technical toy skills I have (Especially since I have none besides basic bondage).



_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/10/2008 7:24:42 PM   
Jupiterfalling


Posts: 42
Joined: 6/22/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, I could see that happening:) I've only contacted one person on this site so far, to be honest. There don't seem to be too many people in my search ranges. I don't think I require a lot of experience. The question was more so if I am safe or better off in that situation. I have the opportunity at hand - with someone I already know well. I am lucky for that, but I'm wondering if he's the right person to bring into this or someone I return to.

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/11/2008 3:53:24 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		As long as they've researched techniques, I don't care about experience dominating. In fact if he's had ten subs in the last two years that tells me he isn't competent in relationship skills. But doing needle play without taking workshops, learning safety skills, practicing on himself - now that's a no go. All I'm concerned about is his ability to play safely.

Since you know he is severe, harsh and expecting more than you are capable of now doing personally I would sit him down and have a long talk. For me, that wouldn't work to be with someone who expected total submission and perfect service immediately (or ever!) and I would rather maintain a friendship by saying I didn't feel we were compatible rather than have a relationship end badly and being told that because I couldn't do what he wanted I was a fake, a wannabe.

I get the feeling he's looking to pop your d/s s&m cherry so to speak.

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/11/2008 6:54:00 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		what I don't hear is your talking about limits,needs, or contracts stating  any of this...? How can he know unless you talk to him?   or He talks to you about it..and he should talk to you about this...

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/12/2008 9:04:42 PM   
Jupiterfalling


Posts: 42
Joined: 6/22/2008
Status: offline 		No need for contracts, or too much explanation. He knew to take it very slow with me. He thought more of that than his own enjoyment. Question is, how to delight him into more in knowing I can handle more.

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/12/2008 9:15:41 PM   
anguisette22


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/9/2008
Status: offline 		I'm relatively new to all of this myself. There are some basic things (like humiliation, for example) that even non-Doms have managed to perform quite adequately for me. There are a lot of things that I haven't gotten into yet because I'm afraid that an inexperienced Dom might not be skilled enough to make it a good first experience for me. Like pain. I would hate being smacked around by someone who doesn't know what the hell they're doing, so I've stayed away from it. I'm waiting for an experienced Master who knows how to use pain in a way that is pleasurable. The pain itself isn't appealing, but I could see enjoying it very much if I received it from a skilled partner who used it in a psychological way to make it erotic.

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/13/2008 7:41:44 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jupiterfalling

No need for contracts, or too much explanation. He knew to take it very slow with me. He thought more of that than his own enjoyment. Question is, how to delight him into more in knowing I can handle more.


Jupiterfalling, your second and third sentences said a lot.  His primary concern is that you enjoy your experience and feel safe.

Your last sentence shows that you still want to take control.  GIve it up, and let him take it.  He will push you and he will gauge your reactions.  He knows what he's doing and is being careful.  Trust him.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/13/2008 10:21:40 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jupiterfalling

No need for contracts, or too much explanation. He knew to take it very slow with me. He thought more of that than his own enjoyment. Question is, how to delight him into more in knowing I can handle more.


Well you could try saying just that to him. However sub frenzy is common in the beginning and people have a tendency to bite off more than they can chew. But if this is a d/s relationship, not just negotiating scenes, part of it is submitting to his time schedule and allowing him to decide when you can take more. Not fun in a slap and tickle way, but oddly enough, him going slowly when you want faster proves him more trustworthy.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/13/2008 1:15:41 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		I am probably what would qualify as an experienced Master or Domly type dude.  I have been actively living the lifestyle and been a contributing member of the BDSM community for over 30 years.  I was even a spokesman for the alt/sex, pansexual and BDSM communities in the 70s. 

My potential slave would probably qualify as a novice.  This potential slave-to-be is 20 years old.  She has had one beating and lived in a BDSM relationship for 1.5 years. 

We feel confident that our love, passion, intellect, emotional balance and perversion will see us through to a wonderfully rewarding relationship.  If not, we will have the best of times giving it our all. 

In the past, I had three 24/7 TPE style LTRs that lasted over a span of 30 years.  All three were novices when they started.  One was mildly experienced in that she had one temporary lifestyle relationship experience.  Another had only dabbled at swingers parties and BDSM events.  The other had no personal exposure at all but was aware that there was a lifestyle.  We are all still freinds and occasional lovers to this day. 

The novice sub & experienced Dom... not a problem!

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RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/13/2008 3:00:11 PM   
puppen


Posts: 1550
Joined: 6/25/2006
Status: offline 		A year and a half? My ass!

Let's change that to four months of rape.

Get your information straight. ---DON'T BITE MY FINGER OFF---


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/14/2008 4:34:22 PM   
Jupiterfalling


Posts: 42
Joined: 6/22/2008
Status: offline 		All of this consideration for nothing. He doesn't want to pursue this with me it seems:(

(in reply to puppen)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Novice submissive + experienced Dom =?? - 7/14/2008 8:14:56 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		I feel the main issue of the post is fairly resolved, and would like to tie up a loose end with MadRabbit.

I took My Pet out to the woods today.  It is an environment where my expertise far exceeds hers in every capacity.  It was surreal to me how much more I could dominate her in this realm.  Every step, she looked to me to ensure she wouldn't trip.  Was I dominating her?

It's a difference of operational definition, but I would say "no."  I was being dominant, and she submissive, but I was not actively dominating.  I define dominating as the act of elevating oneself above another.  Being stable in that position is different.  If I sit on the couch and watch The Next Food Network Star while she lays on the floor at my feet, I do not feel like I'm actively dominating her by keeping the status quo (me dominant, her submissive).

By my definition you may always be dominant, but you are not always dominating.

As far as topping goes, let us define it as "the one doing the striking." (and fair-use extrapolate it to the one doing the tying, the one doing the humiliating, etc.)  While it can be considered completely independent of power exchange, I consider it a microclasm of power exchange.  The top is the dominant for that scene/night/hot weekend in the Keys. 

So if teaching doesn't make you tick as a dominant, does anything?  Its perfectly fine if you're content just being you (and women liking that in you, hence seeking it.)  For me, it's not enough.  I enjoy the posh position of dominance, but I crave more.  I need it to always be growing.  How do I expand my dominance?  With a mix of pushing her down (reminding her of her place, humiliation, etc.) and raising myself up (teaching her, becoming her maestro).

While my previous post spoke in the "general us" (an internet faux pas), I feel I gave ample disclaimer to include individual differences. 

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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Profile   Post #: 36
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