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American Music - 7/10/2008 8:11:55 AM   
MrRodgers


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There is a distinction to it and for almost the entire 20 Century. A fore-runner to what the west joined into during the second half...the origins of which comes from the early street. The listener strained for the nostalgic ballad and with singing sirens while their was no competition between the religious piety of liturgical music and say...the American secularism of ragtime.
 
Tin Pan Alley gave us a few memorable themes but the whole genre is what remains even if it was about little more than strolling down Easy Street. Not looking at the crass tally of sales we found our pleasure in the tally our musical spirit. Look at the following and ask if you would agree...that this music has almost completely dominated our musical culture for damn near 100 years...
 
Blues = American
Jazz = American
Ragtime = American
Rock & Roll = American
Rap (musical) = American
 
It has been suggested that our music finally seperated church and song.
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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 8:46:25 AM   
RealityLicks


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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 9:45:56 AM   
Maxwell67


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
 Look at the following and ask if you would agree...that this music has almost completely dominated our musical culture for damn near 100 years...
 
Blues = American
Jazz = American
Ragtime = American
Rock & Roll = American
Rap (musical) = American


Since the american musical landscape is so large it is sometimes difficult to step back and see the forest for the trees.  What has dominated our musical culture for well over 100 years is the Afro-Cuban influence that gave rise to all these styles and which continues to transform the landscape now, though on a more global scale.

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 11:13:55 AM   
pahunkboy


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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 11:14:21 AM   
SummerWind


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Status: offline 		All of this music had it's birth in poor black communities......The sad part is....the amount of extraordinarily talented black musicians who got royally fucked by whitey......

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 11:21:13 AM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

Since the american musical landscape is so large it is sometimes difficult to step back and see the forest for the trees. What has dominated our musical culture for well over 100 years is the Afro-Cuban influence that gave rise to all these styles and which continues to transform the landscape now, though on a more global scale.



I'd say a major influence actually came from the British Isles, particularly in the 1960's and 1970's, and not overlooking the Celtic influence and how Celtic music influenced country and western.

Looking back, yes there has been a very rich musical heritage which is American but to claim that it was all American isn't something I can agree with.

For example I wouldn't say rap has entirely American roots, but much of it comes from Jamaican reggae, particularly the dance hall, roots and if you look closely at much of soul music today you will see a strong influence from lover's rock.

Yes nobody can argue with the impact on music of artists such as Elvis Presley, Bob Dylan, Tamla Motown, Quincy Jones, but then you also have to consider the Beatles, the Animals, the Kinks, Manfred Mann, the Searchers, the Hollies, Herman's Hermits, and the British beat which in turn inspired such American artists as the Mamas and Papas, Buffalo Springfield, the Byrds, Barry MacGuire, and so on. Then you also have to wonder what would have happened had Jimi Hendrix not gone to London and teamed up with Chas Chandler.

You can say what you like, but the foundations for rock music are British and were laid in the 1960's by bands such as the Kinks, the Rolling Stones, The Who, Status Quo, Genesis, and moving into the 1970's you have Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Supertramp, and so on.

Late in the 1970's you had Malcolm MacLaren and punk, the New Romantic and the electronic music inspired by German artists such as Kraftwerk and Gary Numan.

This is also not mentioning the influence of artists from other English speaking countries such as Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Much of the above has heavily influenced American music over the past 50 years.

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 11:46:43 AM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
You can say what you like, but the foundations for rock music are British and were laid in the 1960's by bands such as the Kinks, the Rolling Stones, The Who, Status Quo, Genesis, and moving into the 1970's you have Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Supertramp, and so on.


As astute as many of your posts are Stella, I have to say that you're wrong here.  Very wrong.  All of the artists you name were ultimately rooted in an American music - the blues. 

Of course evolution occurred later on (but I'm not Peter Guralnick so I won't attempt to describe that evolution in any detail). And of course, there has been a swapping of influences across the Atlantic but that's not the same as originating the form. 

Even skiffle is derived from jazz.

But there are all sorts of influences in music everywhere, it's dangerous for anyone to claim it as theirs, except to enjoy.

I blame Vanilla Ice.



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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 11:48:32 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

But there are all sorts of influences in music everywhere, it's dangerous for anyone to claim it as theirs, except to enjoy.



...agreed. However i will credit the US with pioneering a number of ways in which music is delivered.

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 11:54:30 AM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

i will credit the US with pioneering a number of ways in which music is delivered.


Pirate Bay is American?

Disclaimer : I have not ever, nor do I intend, to illegally download the intellectual copyright of other artists, so help me Radiohead.

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 12:07:52 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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The old argument about what was and was not "invented" in America is really silly.  We are a nation made up of immigrants, who came here with the culture of their homes and that culture was "Americanized."  The melting pot is exactly that.  It's where all those cultures melt together to make something new.  We didn't invent pizza, but no one can honestly say that we didn't popularlize it.  We didn't invent frankfurters or hamburg steaks, but someone here decided to put those culinary innovations on a roll and it became American. 
 
American music is a blend of all sorts of influences.  We wouldn't have bluegrass, rock 'n roll, blues, jazz, country and western, etc, etc without all the different cultures that contributed to them. 

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 12:46:32 PM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		America has delivered some fantastic culture in the 20th century, my shelves are full of it but you are going off the boil because you are celebating what you have done and not living it as you once did.

My generation always looked towards America, my daughter's generation is looking east. She doesn't see what I see and that is America's problem, she looks towards China and Japan where the new beats come from for the forward looking Europeans.

Give me all the old blues singers, give me Hendrix, Dylan, Joplin and the rest, I am in heaven but for my daughter, they are yesterday. Sad but true.

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 2:25:39 PM   
SteelofUtah


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Gave Rock and Roll to you

Gave Rock and Roll to everyone.

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 2:37:00 PM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

China and Japan where the new beats come from for the forward looking Europeans.



Except those "new beats" won't be Asian, atonal or counted in triplets.  They'll be 4/4 beats, blues-based tunes - y'know, the ones derived from the Americans who didn't arrive as immigrants. Or as Stella rightly pointed out, their cousins in the Caribbean and points east.

< Message edited by RealityLicks -- 7/10/2008 3:17:28 PM >

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 3:13:52 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:


Give me all the old blues singers, give me Hendrix, Dylan, Joplin and the rest, I am in heaven but for my daughter, they are yesterday. Sad but true.


Warren Haynes is carrying that flag just fine.

Turn your daughter onto Gov't Mule, and she;ll be fine.



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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 4:42:28 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SummerWind

All of this music had it's birth in poor black communities......


That's too easy. 
Scott Joplin considered his ragtime to be classical compositions, Miles Davis came from a well to do St Louis family, dixieland and jazz came straight out of the marching brass band tradition of the predecessors to Sousa and Handy, Zyedco and Mexican Norteno music exhibit distinct traits from French and German nationalistic styles, big band swing matured and prospered in collegiate and upper class white environs, country and its offshoots of rockabilly, bluegrass, et al, runs directly back to the British Isles. 

Too much cross pollination to point to one source as 'the source'.,  

quote:


The sad part is....the amount of extraordinarily talented black musicians who got royally fucked by whitey......


Absolutely, the demise of Blind Lemon Jefferson being but one example, TOBA being another.

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 4:46:52 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


There is a distinction to it and for almost the entire 20 Century. A fore-runner to what the west joined into during the second half...the origins of which comes from the early street. The listener strained for the nostalgic ballad and with singing sirens while their was no competition between the religious piety of liturgical music and say...the American secularism of ragtime.
 



No competition? Thomas Dorsey and Gary Davis might not buy that.


http://www.southernmusic.net/thomasdorsey.htm

http://www.sc.edu/csam/csamaudioarchive_rev_davis.htm

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 5:21:10 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b



You can say what you like, but the foundations for rock music are British and were laid in the 1960's by bands such as the Kinks, the Rolling Stones, The Who, Status Quo, Genesis, and moving into the 1970's you have Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Supertramp, and so on.



Only with a time machine....

Electric guitar...Les Paul, Gibson, George Beauchamp, Rickenbacker, Charlie Christian...1930s

Roy Brown Good Rocking Tonight..................................1947
 
Arthur Crudup/Elvis   That's All Right Mama...................1954

Bill Haley Rock Around the Clock...................................1955
 
Ike Turner  Rocket 88......................................................1951
 
Big Joe Turner  Shake Rattle and Roll.............................1954
 
Bo Diddley  Who Do youLove........................................1956
 
Chuck Berry   Maybelline..............................................1955
 
Alexis Koerner and Lonnie Donegan were listening to folk blues in the 50s, but none of the acts you mention could have possibly influenced the creation of rock...in fact some of them had to pay royalties later to Americans they had 'borrowed' too heavily from.
 
 
In 1964 the Beatles took America by storm on the basis of some catchy original songs and a scattering of ‘50s rock ’n roll retreads like “Matchbox.” In quick succession they were followed by bands like the Rolling Stones, the Who, the Animals, Them, the Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd.  What would become known as the “British Invasion” changed the face of American – and world – pop music forever.
What got lost between the lines was that the white British Invasion was fueled by black American blues.
 “Matchbox” is a good case in point because the Fab Four said they learned it off the 1957 Dance Album by rockabilly pioneer, Carl Perkins.  Carl didn’t say where he picked it up, but he readily admitted that “I just speeded up some of the slow blues licks” for his seminal rock guitar style.  He is also given writer’s credit for “Matchbox.
 
“Matchbox” was written and recorded by blues legend Blind Lemon Jefferson in 1927.   ”
 
The Rolling Stones took their name from a song by blues icon Muddy Waters and patterned their band after the Waters band.  Many of their “original” hits were direct lifts from older blues recordings.  “Whole Lotta Love,” Led Zeppelin’s only Top10 single, was a close copy of an earlier song by bluesman Willie Dixon.  Dixon heard the song 15 years later, sued and won a rare settlement.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/128/128_reparations_blues.html
 
 
 
 
 
 




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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 8:08:11 PM   
weezyfbaby733


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Status: offline 		what about bluegrass?
or the country music that drives the spirit of the american south
yo

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 8:24:06 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: weezyfbaby733

what about bluegrass?
or the country music that drives the spirit of the american south
yo

It's already been pointed out that Bluegrass has it's roots in the British Isles; Scots-Irish immigrants to Appalachia continued their musical traditions here. In fact, there are some unbelievably good practitioners of "American Roots Music" at the MagnoliaFest on the Suwanee in Live Oak, FL.
http://www.magmusic.com/

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RE: American Music - 7/10/2008 8:34:57 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

what about bluegrass?
or the country music that drives the spirit of the american south
yo


Brother, I'm a big bluegrass fan.  I was born in West Virginia, and my kin all hail from Appalachia.  I play the guitar, and I regularly get together with my friends to play.  Bluegrass is rooted in folk music that came from the British Isles.  It's mixed with influences from people all over the world that lived in Appalachia.  Blacks, Italians, Eastern Europeans, etc, etc. all contributed to the bluegrass sound.  It's American, but America is not that simple. 

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