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The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/11/2005 4:28:38 PM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

You know, I do like a good laugh. Really!

I *LOVE* all of those submissive profiles that talk about the wonderful *GIFT* of submission. Sometimes I look around for these "gifts" I was given over time, but I can't seem to find them. Sometimes I have released a submissive. Sometimes a submissive has asked for release. But these "gifts" they seem to take with them. As it is an integral part of them, I am not entirely surprised it cannot be detached. Hmmm...

But please, enough with the Indian-giving! (My sincerest apologies to my most worthy Indian brothers and sisters, I'm just trying to make a point here as it is known by this silly cliche/slur).

No one gives the gift the submission, it is something one gives to oneself. I give my dominance to myself and I am damned selfish about it too!

Now I know it takes all kinds to make a world, but this stuff came bubbling up today in relation to two strikingly different viewpoints...

This morning, I saw this interview with a male slave:
"Dominants do serve submissives, just as Masters serve slaves, and there’s nothing wrong with that! It’s a mutually beneficial relationship. And so is Top/bottom, but unless the Top is a so-called service Top, who gets off on catering to bottom fantasies, it’s critical for many of us to know that the Top’s primary motivation is His/Her own pleasure or desire and not ours. i wouldn’t call it a ‘trap.’ It’s only a problem if the people involved have other expectations." http://sensuoussadie.com/interviews/davidsteininterview.htm

I also perused a female slave's ad that read something along these lines (and I paraphrase so don't bother looking): "...this is about my wants and needs. If all you Doms can talk about are your own wants and needs, then why should I bother with you?"

Well, does everyone know that sound that Daffy Duck makes when he clucks his tongue over Bugs' "pronoun trouble"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_Seasoning

Post #: 1

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/11/2005 4:46:30 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Links to 6 other discussions on the topic of "the gift of submission"

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 2

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/11/2005 4:50:49 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

If anything in my experience of the world holds true...

It has been more a matter of re-gifting.............

LOL,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 3

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/11/2005 4:54:05 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I've never understood the entire "gift" thing, but many subs seem to feel that is what they have and that is what they give. To me, it's part of who I am, sometimes a big part, it just depends on the circumstances.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 4

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/11/2005 4:55:43 PM

krikket

Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline

This argument has been around (and around and around - ad nausum) for as long as i can remember, and i'm sure long before, since it's only my kids (i hope) who think i'm old as dirt..lol). Over the years i've wrapped my mind around this several times in several different directions, and i don't think i'm any closer to an answer than i was in the beginning.

Speaking strictly for myself, i see myself as a submissive. It's a huge part of who i am, not like a coat i can take off or put on at will (yes, i know an old saying, but it fits i think). That being said, what now works for me is this: When i have a partner, a Master or Dom with whom i have an on-going, important relationship, i give myself to him -- and part of that "self" is the submissive inside me. i also give him my 'nilla part ... the part that likes music, sewing, cooking, dancing, reading, etc. However, i don't see myself as being 1 part submissive and 1 part 'nilla, but one person who's both, intertwined. So, while i don't see my submission as a "gift" i can give my Dom, nor his dominance something he can give to me, i see the exchange of power (in a D/s relationship) as a vital part of the relationship that, if we're lucky and willing to work at it, we give to each other along with all the rest of us.

Hope this makes some sense...

cheers
jimini

< Message edited by krikket -- 11/11/2005 5:14:09 PM >

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 5

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/11/2005 5:03:46 PM

MistressYlwa

Posts: 263
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline

Not sure about the "gift" part. A sub gives him/herself to a dom/domme to be used. Maybe that is where the concept of "gift" comes from, but to me a gift is something that cannot be taken back. hmmmmm

The only service a sub gets from me is if what I desire is what they desire. I am not here to serve anyone. If I was, then I would be a sub. And fat chance of that happening. LOL

Any sub who does not care about the desires of the dominant, is not worth my time. I talk about what I desire because it is what I want. I am the dominant. If they do not want the same things, thats fine. But I am not here to listen to a litany of their wants. The point is to find compatibility. As the dominant, of course what I want is more important, but will listen if they have one or two things they wish. Doesn't mean I will give them what they want, unless it sounds appealing or interesting to me.

Being rude is not the issue. Finding what I want is.

Mistress Ylwa

You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 6

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/11/2005 5:29:27 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

Original: Chaingang
No one gives the gift the submission, it is something one gives to oneself. I give my dominance to myself and I am damned selfish about it too!

i really liked that line i thought it was very insightful. No one does anything unless they like it, so in effect everything we do is for ourselves.

I think sometimes the whole gift thing is just a submissives/slaves attempt to feel special.."look at what im giving you!" kinda thing.

If its the Dominant saying to their slave however, i.e." Your submission to me is like a gift" i perhaps see this as more true. We do receive gifts everyday. A smile from someone in the street could be considered a gift. Someone lending a helping hand when you need it could be considered a gift....i think in this instance..it would just be the Dom expressing a recognition of some kind...something they are happy and pleased with.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

Post #: 7

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/20/2005 10:15:59 PM

HouseofBear

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline

If it is looked on as a gift, then it is a gift that each give the other. What it boils down to is that both are meeting each others basic needs in the relationship. If this were not so, then why would they be there?

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 8

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/20/2005 10:35:28 PM

SirButchTX

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

A gift? Let's look at this. I get to feed you, clothe you, take care of you, make sure you are structured, keep you safe, guide you, watch out for your best interest, be responsible for you when you stumble, stand up for you when you can not, and generally be responsible for your happiness and well being. Gee, thanks for the gift....I'll be working the rest of my life to pay for it.....

A gift is something we can use as needed, or admire as a decoration. Often it's given as a token of esteem and friendship, even love. But every "gift" I've ever received has been something I could hold even after the giver has left the premises. This wonderous "Gift" of submission is actually a "curse" of responsibility that we accept willingly. This term "gift" in this context, to me is complete disrespect for the Dominant's intelligence.
Think about it from my point of view: You are going to give me this wonderful "gift" that I must be responsible for every day, 24/7.

Bears some thinking huh?

SirButchTX

(in reply to HouseofBear)

Post #: 9

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/20/2005 10:59:38 PM

wipmebeetme100

Posts: 198
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

A gift? Let's look at this. I get to feed you, clothe you, take care of you, make sure you are structured, keep you safe, guide you, watch out for your best interest, be responsible for you when you stumble, stand up for you when you can not, and generally be responsible for your happiness and well being. Gee, thanks for the gift....I'll be working the rest of my life to pay for it.....

SirButch.....i like the way you think. Welcome.
cathy

_____________________________

Happiness is like peeing your pants: Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth
~Unknown

(in reply to SirButchTX)

Post #: 10

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/20/2005 11:22:57 PM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

But these "gifts" they seem to take with them.
-----

yeah. i take my domestics elsewhere when "I" go. i am NOT going to come back to do a house i just left.
duh!
but then SHE aint gonna domme a boy She ain't GOT either!
so there is your "indian giver" on BOTH sides.!!!!!!
if that is how you feel about it.???????????
i just figured THAT was already accepted. i do MY domestics out of the goodness of my heart. don't act like i am being paid. and there is NO romance to make me stay....and even THEN it is not a guarantee.....ergo 3 ex wives....
no sex involved. no s/m involved..
what is it YOU actually EXPECT to happen???????????

i am lost here...........please advise?

thanks

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 11

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/21/2005 6:57:57 AM

MastersBabieGirl

Posts: 63
Joined: 11/17/2005
From: courtice ontario
Status: offline

i give myself to my master not because i see it as a gift its not really
its a need and a drive i have to please him to have him use me as he wishes
its not a gift imo we both get equal pleasure out of it

_____________________________

owned and obeying my Master at all times

(in reply to veronicaofML)

Post #: 12

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/21/2005 7:43:04 AM

MissHarlet

Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline

I agree that a gift stays behind when the giver is gone .. so how can submission be a gift ??

I will happily accept submission from the right person..and hopefully that lasts a long time if not forever but it can be given back or taken back .. so to speak.....but if I get a gift .. Im keeping it no matter what........

I hear Gift of submission more from those that are new in the lifestyle than from those that have lived this way for a long time.

But in the end it is merely words and we all have different ways of expressing ourselves .. so ....... If you have a " gift " to give find someone that also considers your submission a " gift" .... and everyone wins ...

(in reply to MastersBabieGirl)

Post #: 13

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/21/2005 9:16:40 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

i don't peruse other submissives' profiles, but i have seen more than a few Dom or Master profiles offering to "treasure the gift of my submission". It's a metaphor; i cannot understand why it works people up so much. If it doesn't fit Your feelings then don't use it. Seems simple and uncomplicated to me.

candystripper

(in reply to MissHarlet)

Post #: 14

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/21/2005 10:48:53 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
It's a metaphor; i cannot understand why it works people up so much. If it doesn't fit Your feelings then don't use it. Seems simple and uncomplicated to me.

Metaphors are dangerous to the degree that they conceal the truth. Further, we aren't discussing a poem or something like that - this is a common turn of phrase in the scene, and a poor one. It's my observation that the scene is full of flowery phrases and ideas that conceal observable truths. People in general, and newbs in particular, would do well to attempt getting at reality instead of concentrating on misguided metaphors that conceal it.

I am reminded of that old metaphor for courtship that states that a woman lives her life like a damsel in distress and that a man comes upon her like a knight on a white charger to rescue her from her trials.

If you find that kind of metaphor helpful then the little thread I began cannot help you in any case.

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 15

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/21/2005 10:53:31 AM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

so how can submission be a gift ??
==========
because in MY eyes as "I" see this? i am doing it out of the goodness of my heart. there is nothing......absolutely nothing to keep me anywhere on this planet except by the goodness of my heart.

i give...........my help...........my domestics. it IS my gift........if only out of friendship status.....
i do this where ever i go...whomever i am with.........unless i figure you are a total jerk and then you can fend for yourself. i am no one's dog to kick around. i am not doing anything for anyone that i figure doesn't deserve it......
i am picky whom i do things for.

but yeah-------
it's JUST................MY-----view.............okay? NOT putting anyone else down.........

take care

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to MissHarlet)

Post #: 16

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/23/2005 1:48:57 PM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Metaphors are dangerous to the degree that they conceal the truth. Further, we aren't discussing a poem or something like that - this is a common turn of phrase in the scene, and a poor one. It's my observation that the scene is full of flowery phrases and ideas that conceal observable truths. People in general, and newbs in particular, would do well to attempt getting at reality instead of concentrating on misguided metaphors that conceal it.

I am reminded of that old metaphor for courtship that states that a woman lives her life like a damsel in distress and that a man comes upon her like a knight on a white charger to rescue her from her trials.

If you find that kind of metaphor helpful then the little thread I began cannot help you in any case.

Chaingang

i credit myself with the brains to perceive a metaphor -- see? i understood "the gift of submission" was a metaphor. i also wanna try role playing, but the "white knight" isn't one of my fantasises as it happens. i have said over and over that i believe a submissive or slave needs to have her/his house in order before a true D/s or M/s relationship can occur, IMO. i just do not understand the strong reaction people have to a turn of phrase, when so much more is important.

candystripper

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 17

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/23/2005 2:01:38 PM

luvdragonx

Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

veronica and candy - Yes.

I agree with your statements.

I also don't understand the apoplectic fit some people have over that term Gift. Personally, I prefer to give and receive gifts that are well meaning and have thought and consideration behind them. I will always appreciate a gift with those qualities a lot more than a gift that was given as an afterthought or just to satisfy some supposed obligation.

Some D/s folk feel that the analogy (or metaphor if you prefer) fits they way they do/see things. Bully for them. Other people see it differently and don't assign the same kind of value to that type of exchange. Bully for them too.

For the people who are so peturbed by the use of the word Gift with submission, how do you view other non-tangibles? What about friendship, charity and compassion? Those things can't be touched after the giver is gone, but the impact it had on someone else is still there, right?

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 18

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/23/2005 2:28:00 PM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

but the impact it had on someone else is still there, right?

==========

just like my service..........if i left --- this house is clean and spotless right now....so THAT will be here...and SHE knows it.

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to luvdragonx)

Post #: 19

RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/23/2005 2:46:29 PM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

A gift? Let's look at this. I get to feed you, clothe you, take care of you, make sure you are structured, keep you safe, guide you, watch out for your best interest, be responsible for you when you stumble, stand up for you when you can not, and generally be responsible for your happiness and well being. Gee, thanks for the gift....I'll be working the rest of my life to pay for it.....

lol..okay that was good SirButch

Thankyou

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to SirButchTX)

Post #: 20

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