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Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 11:50:33 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe it is just me, but symbols like collars don't mean much in my life.  I use them for play, occasionally to add a cuter touch to the corset I choose for the night, and sometimes as jewelry.  In a relationship I am either committed or not, it is either important or it is easy enough to walk away, but I don't need a symbol to prove I am his.
The wedding ring is about as much of a symbol as I have ever done and that is because the committment was not just emotional and mental, it was legal.

I also don't follow the standard protocal about meetings.  For me, bdsm first meetings are no different than meeting anyone.  I don't do safe calls.  I don't have code words.  I also don't meet someone while not wearing a bra or panties and expect he will be shoving fingers in to dark musky spaces.  I actually expect to meet a man who is civilized.  And once we meet and get to know each other if things progress, they do.  If not, it was a good lunch and maybe I have a nice friend who I wouldn't mind meeting again sometime or sharing his name with someone else.

It isn't until the last 15 yrs or so that I have noticed all this push for symbols and following safety protocals.  Then it seemed to become fashionable.. and I, as usual, am a renegade.  I am not sure if it is because I started off doing this long before the net, or if I am just prone to being different.

So you people out there, how important are symbols and protocal to you?  Does when you were introduced to this influence your choices? 
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 12:05:13 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I love you, Myst.  Just sayin'

Okay, call me Dangerdom.  It's a miracle that I am alive, and the many play partners that I have met are alive/uninjured/unrobbed.   It's not that any of us lacked common sense, either, we just trusted our instincts, and just plain trusted.  I have never used a safe call, though I have been one for other folks.  Is it because I am from Before Teh Internets?  Probably.  And I am a shitkicking rebel. 

I like the look of some collars, and I like to use them to drag my partner around...but it's just an accessory, for me.  My actual "collar" was a bracelet, but I didn't think the relationship was over if he or she took it off for the night. 

I like things simple, what can I say?



_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 12:11:25 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Bear with me here, I promise I will make my point in this.

I recently brought home a rescued cat.  I have never owned a cat before, so I'm currently reading up on cat behavior.  I learned when you bring an older cat into a newer environment, it will usually seek out a "hiding spot" and this will be its safe place in your home.  When unsure or nervous or scared, the cat will return to its safe place. They say you should not pull the cat out of its safe place - it goes there because it needs its space, and because it finds comfort and security there.  Pulling it out may cause it to fear you, and may create an insecure and skittish kitty.

Now, how the hell does this relate to your question?? 

I see symbols and protocols as "safe places" for people, especially those new to their relationship, or new to D/s.  It gives the submissive a place to go to feel a sense of comfort and belonging in his or her new "home."  The safe place might be a hand reaching to fondle the collar, or it might be following certain customs or protocols.  It might be a set of rituals for the submissve.  It's whatever creates a sense of security within the mind of the person needing it.  If there is no harm in doing so, then why not?  Pulling the unsure newcomer from where he/she feels safe (wherever that may be) might create an insecurity that doesn't need to be there.

Perhaps as people discovered these things for themselves (maybe even at a subconscious level), they have come to communicate the importance in them for others. 

This is mere speculation on my part.  I could be talking out of my ass here!  But when I was very new to my Master and to D/s, I liked having those safe places set up for me.  They helped calm my anxieties.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 12:27:02 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		My collar is just that a symbol.  It give me comfort whan i am not with Master and i can reach up and touch it.  I have never had a safe call because Master and i had maet a few time before we played and the meets were public.  I trusted my instincts and was proved right to trust him.  So i don't need the collar, but it makes us both happy and like i said it is a comfort to me.

Matt's littleone

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 12:29:04 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have no objection to people needing to feel secure in whatever form that takes.  I just wonder if it is more necessary in those who are new, than it is to those of us who are familar with meeting things head on because it has become common.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

It's whatever creates a sense of security within the mind of the person needing it.  If there is no harm in doing so, then why not?  Pulling the unsure newcomer from where he/she feels safe (wherever that may be) might create an insecurity that doesn't need to be there.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 12:31:12 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I have no objection to people needing to feel secure in whatever form that takes.  I just wonder if it is more necessary in those who are new, than it is to those of us who are familar with meeting things head on because it has become common.


I would guess that to be the case.  Just like the first time one goes skydiving, it's typically in tandem.  The more familiar you are with what you are doing and how you fit in it, the more secure you become without the means of "security blankets." 

Thanks for hanging in there with my cat-story!

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 12:38:37 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

In a relationship I am either committed or not, it is either important or it is easy enough to walk away, but I don't need a symbol to prove I am his.

Me too but i enjoy wearing the symbol too.
 
quote:

The wedding ring is about as much of a symbol as I have ever done and that is because the committment was not just emotional and mental, it was legal.

I wore my wedding ring as a sign of the commitment, nothing to do with the legality. Just me.
 
quote:

I also don't follow the standard protocal about meetings.  For me, bdsm first meetings are no different than meeting anyone.  I don't do safe calls.

I've always done safe calls, bdsm or nilla.
 
quote:

So you people out there, how important are symbols and protocal to you? 

Not of major importance but i do like them.
 
quote:

 Does when you were introduced to this influence your choices?

Nope.





_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 12:44:25 PM   
MastersBitch96


Posts: 73
Joined: 5/15/2008
From: Endicott, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Maybe it is just me, but symbols like collars don't mean much in my life.  I use them for play, occasionally to add a cuter touch to the corset I choose for the night, and sometimes as jewelry.  In a relationship I am either committed or not, it is either important or it is easy enough to walk away, but I don't need a symbol to prove I am his.
The wedding ring is about as much of a symbol as I have ever done and that is because the committment was not just emotional and mental, it was legal.

I also don't follow the standard protocal about meetings.  For me, bdsm first meetings are no different than meeting anyone.  I don't do safe calls.  I don't have code words.  I also don't meet someone while not wearing a bra or panties and expect he will be shoving fingers in to dark musky spaces.  I actually expect to meet a man who is civilized.  And once we meet and get to know each other if things progress, they do.  If not, it was a good lunch and maybe I have a nice friend who I wouldn't mind meeting again sometime or sharing his name with someone else.

It isn't until the last 15 yrs or so that I have noticed all this push for symbols and following safety protocals.  Then it seemed to become fashionable.. and I, as usual, am a renegade.  I am not sure if it is because I started off doing this long before the net, or if I am just prone to being different.

So you people out there, how important are symbols and protocal to you?  Does when you were introduced to this influence your choices? 
Kyst


Well, personally in regard to safe calls etc, I agree with you.... we are all so conditioned to live in a constant state of fear -- of everything from terrorists to Halloween candy-- that it seems a natural extention of that.  I think in 99% of cases, if a person intends you serious harm, no safe call is going to save you, because they are certainly expecting you to have one or more set up and will have planned a way around that barrier.  However, having said that... we always urge any girl who has a playdate with my Master to set one up, because it does give an aura of security in her mind, therefore making her more relaxed.  Heck, we even offer references lol.... silly isn't it? -- That just because a former partner vouches for you (who could actually be anyone, pretending to be a former partner), a girl is suddenly a-ok convinced that she is safe.  But here's the thing... as ridiculous as this all is, if you don't follow the "rules" as we do... you won't have many women willing to risk it.  As for symbols... I agree- mostly.  The only exception (for me, certainly not for everyone), is my collar... it is as much a part of me as my ring.-- Bitch

_____________________________

"I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do it; so the little got more and more"

"Your only validation is in living your own life; vicarious existence is a fucking waste of time."

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 1:02:52 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I think it is why I look twice when people fall in with protocals.  People seem to be convinced that it makes them safer.  I tend to use my own instinct and the ability to think on my feet.  The aura of security is my knowlege that I will do what it takes to keep myself safe.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: MastersBitch96
... we always urge any girl who has a playdate with my Master to set one up, because it does give an aura of security in her mind, therefore making her more relaxed.  Heck, we even offer references lol.... silly isn't it? -- That just because a former partner vouches for you (who could actually be anyone, pretending to be a former partner), a girl is suddenly a-ok convinced that she is safe.  But here's the thing... as ridiculous as this all is, if you don't follow the "rules" as we do... you won't have many women willing to risk it. 

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 1:07:21 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Miss I am much like you- but I do have symbols and they are meaningful to me.  I simply disdain the "cool points system," competition and peer pressure that the kink world turns them into. 

Safewords become symbols of trust, collars of protection become symbols of belonging- that's where the crap gets bad.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 1:20:54 PM   
scarletsub1975


Posts: 4
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		That makes a great deal of sense to me!  Rituals do feel safe, and usually provide a sense of confidence in being able to please, as long as there are no so many that you can't remember them!

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 1:30:24 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Missokyst, i agree with you that people who rely more on safe-calls and safe-word, policy and procedure rather than trust common sense, instinct, could have a false sense of security that would actually get them into the trouble they try to avoid.

But i also know that BDSM has become more popularized and mainstreamed in recent years and so that it's not as easy to discern who is who.  In a way isn't " I also don't meet someone while not wearing a bra or panties and expect he will be shoving fingers in to dark musky spaces."  a kind of protocol and a type of safety message?

For me, i wasn't prone to sub-frenzy even in the beginning, i follow my father's advice of "trust everyone but always cut the cards" and have paid close attention to my instincts.  Perhaps my age when i accepted myself as i am, could have something to do with it.  i'm old enough that i used to ride public transporation into downtown Minneapolis at age 10 and frankly if my daughter sent my grandson out on a public bus alone i would turn her in for child endangerment.  So perhaps being independent at an early age and having a safer environment in which to come to maturity made a difference for me.  YMMV

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 4:32:49 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Gawd I love that!
I trust people in general.  I don't go around thinking that everyone out there is going to harm me, and coming from some keypoints of abuse in my youth, getting to this place should have been more difficult.  I tend to think that most people are like me.  Perverted but not insane.
Whether I am aware of it or not, until I know someone well enough to feel secure, I always am the one who cuts the cards.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
"trust everyone but always cut the cards" and have paid close attention to my instincts. 


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 4:34:50 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		i have very good instincts as a genral rule...although i was completely wrong about his evilness & mrs evilness, cause i ran fom them for over 2 years...i've done some things that i would never talk about on these forums because people would have told me i was unsafe in my practices...i've always done the safe call thing cause it tends to shut my friends up...i never could figure out how a safe call could save my ass if someone was bent on destroying it...but it's something i do to calm others' fears for my safety...i've always been slightly crazier than anyone who had harming me in mind so i don't worry too much...i used to live on "the streets" when i was a young woman, hung with all kinds of unsavory characters & the street girl knew how to keep me safe...now, when i'm feeling threatened, she comes back out to play & scares the bad guys off...

other forms of symbolism & protocol don't have much of a place in my life...i will not automatically call a self-professed dominant "sir"...one time i lipped off to a dominant friend & he said, "hey, wait a minute!  i'm a Dom!"  my reply was, "probably, but you're not my Dom"....when his evilness offered me his ownership, i vowed to never speak to him or about him with anything less than respect, because that's what he deserves....

_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 4:37:16 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		For me the symbol has always been verbal.  "You belong to me"  "I am yours"  And when approached, letting people know that without any confrontation is enough to make me feel secure.  It is a symbol of belonging which means more to me than a collar, or a ring.
Cool points... I like that turn of phrase. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Miss I am much like you- but I do have symbols and they are meaningful to me.  I simply disdain the "cool points system," competition and peer pressure that the kink world turns them into. 

Safewords become symbols of trust, collars of protection become symbols of belonging- that's where the crap gets bad.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 5:46:47 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		I didn't even know we had symbols, apart from the rainbow one for gays and lesbians.  When you said protocols I thought of the Gor positions, which are pretty, but I haven't memorised.
 
I guess I use my own judgment when it comes to safety.  I try to remember he's a stranger and one I met from the 'net.  Caution but not paranoia.
 
candystripper

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 6:51:18 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Symbols like a collar.
Protocal like doing certain actions such as what is the correct thing to wear, ect when meeting someone.
Collars are not a symbol of committment for me.
I wear what is comfy and appropriate for the location at a first meet.
lol..
I don't even consider positions as part of the deal. 
"spread your legs further"  Ok. Anything too tradionally slavish, get a piece of artwork.
Kyst

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 7:16:48 PM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good evening!
When I first started this road, last year, I also got caught up in "protocols" and "what a true slave is/does/feels" And it set a very high standard. I started with my second Master expecting to do these things but not really feeling the satisfaction of serving from my soul, I was just going thru the motions. But with Daddy-now- I have to pretty much wipe away all those thoughts in my head, start out completely empty, which was and still is sometimes very hard. In letting go some of those ideals and protocols I find myself enjoying and connecting more with Daddy.
  I guess generalized slaves/subs have it easier to keep to their "protocols" and "symbols" such as collars and such but I have noticed that as a "daughter" I am allowed a bit more freedom and fun. There are certain rules and standards but overall I am pampered alot more than I ever was as a slave and that makes me more dedicated to making Daddy happy. But yes, those symbols and rules and such can really have a negative effect on us when we move from newbie to "intermediate". ::laughs::  Talk about mind play.
Love,
Zechriel
  -Daddy's baby girl

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 7:57:31 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I used to believe in all of that shit. Then I woke up one day with the realization that it was just another form of "vanilla" creeping into kink culture.  More pressure to conform to some tired stereotype created by a bunch of whack-jobs somewhere.

And I dropped it like a hot potato, end of story.


_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: Symbols, protocal and how new are you? - 7/12/2008 9:50:32 PM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline 		I have wedding and engagement rings that mean the world to me.
The collar and the ring that hangs from it mean as much or more.
I don't know whether the meaning is because of "when" I got into things, or whether it has to do with my age.
As for protocol... "good evening, sir" (to the one who owns me only) is all I need.

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