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Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/13/2008 9:17:05 PM

Untouched1282

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline

How do you introduce them? Do you slowly bring them in, pandering to their interests? Or do you intoduce them to a bunch of things, mainly that you're interested in, to see what they enjoy are willing to do?

With newbies often being fragile, possibly not even meant for this lifestyle, I figure the introduction process must be monitored closely. Being new to this lifestyle myself, I'm not exactly sure how hands-on (figuratively) I should be in directing my introduction, or if I should allow Her to take control (literally) of introducing things to me.

I know this is subjective. Just looking to see your opinions and what not.

Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 1:13:28 AM

HeavansKeeper

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

I'm glad you realize the introduction process is subjective. I'll toss in my answer, I'm not a female dominant, but introducing submissives is independent of gender.

My Pet is stronger than I give her credit for, she could handle a trial by fire, but I don't allow it. I "play" it like a videogame. Earlier levels have tutorial-based play, while later levels expect that prior knowledge to be mastered.

Late levels are taxing and the answer to "winning" is less and less obvious. Soon her prior skills carry her. At this point she knows how to respond and act in every situation. She knows how to show respect and be submissive.

In terms of introducing her to new play and toys and thrilling situations, I take it at her pace with my interests (unless she specifically asks for something).

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 2

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 4:06:13 AM

Allondra

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/12/2008
Status: offline

If you're dealing with a (potential) submissive, pandering to their interests isn't going to make either of you happy, is it? If they want to submit, give them something to submit to. If they're too fragile or not meant for this lifestyle, it will show only if they're under some pressure, not when they're being catered to. If you're introducing a new activity, take it slowly and check in with your partner either during or after, to see how it went for them. This is all if you're the dominant in the relationship, of course (although checking in with your partner is for either side of the equation).

Are you actually asking about introducing someone to being dominant? I'm not sure I can help you there, except to say that she should talk to someone with some experience, and the two of you should discuss where you want to go with the relationship, so she has some end goal to plot a course toward (and it should include *her* goal of course, not just yours). I would imagine that, while not unheard of, it's unusual for a submissive to train his dominant and have everyone be happy in the end. If she's dominant, it will be her interest in that that moves things along.

Good luck to you.

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 3

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 6:11:33 AM

DominantJenny

Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

I think with someone who viewed themselves as submissive to start with (something I haven't done; I started with a vanilla partner), I'd first see about making a reality out of some of their more mainstream/common interests, then (depending on how that went, of course) some of my more mainstream/common interests, then gradually work towards more and more personal quirks, as well as worrying less about catering to their tastes as they grew more comfortably/deeply into their submission.

(in reply to Allondra)

Post #: 4

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 6:47:13 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I meet potentials through local munches and organizations primarily so no one I have ever trained has zero experience. At the very least they have to be aware that they are kinky and able to prove to me that they have some understanding otherwise they cannot give informed consent which in my household equals non-consent.

When someone seems to have potential then I have a very formal training period I got through with them. I've trained over three dozen thus far and owned five of those myself post-training. I am very choosy but out of all of those, only one fled the lifestyle and that was because I ended training because I felt it frankly was not working and it seemed clear to me he was more a fetish lover than he realized and not honestly into Ds or SM.

My program became formal over a few years because it is safest for me, my existing household and for newbies in my opinion and experience. It involves a lot of reading, writing, and talking as well as trying out several activities and different protocols. It is difficult to say what one is looking for or what one's limits are if one has limited experience but usually to discover a limit, especially hard one, requires only one or two tries.

If I can help someone figure themselves out a bit more and go out into th rest of the Scene armed with greater knowledge, I've done my job. If we turn out to be a good match, bonus for us.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 5

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 7:13:20 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

When I first met clip, he didn't have what I would term as "lifestyle" experience. What he did have at that point, was bottoming experience. There had been some prior exposure to the play aspects, but not especially the service. If any, he had the opportunity to witness it in other dynamics, but had not been in one himself.

Not only was he a masochist, but he also had a quality that the best desciption that I have for is that he had a submissive heart. He didn't just want to enjoy pain. He wanted to learn. He wanted to serve. He wanted structure. He wanted a place of belonging. He wanted to please Me. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

So, what I did was balance these things out and take small steps at a time with each. When I would establish a protocol for our time together, I would explain why I was putting it in place. We would have long talks about why I did certain things the way I did and why I believe certain things that I do. I would ask him about the way he interpreted them and how he felt about them. In addition, I also got him involved in the local community here, so he would have a broader perspective. I'm not big on thinking My way is the only way. It just happens to be the way that works for Me. I wanted him to know that there are other ways, too, that work for others.

I wouldn't especially call this "pandering to his interests". We had many interests in common. I just happened to be the one who had more experience when we met. Some of his growth I monitored, but not all of it. One example of this was that I wanted him involved in the submissive gatherings that, as a Dominant, I took no part of. I wanted him to have a well rounded base of learning experiences.

All I can say is, I got a wonderful return on My investment.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DominantJenny)

Post #: 6

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 2:29:09 PM

Shawn1066

Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline

This is going to be just a -tad- disconnected...my apologies.

When I first met my Owner, I had absolutely no experience. I was sure that I wanted to submit to her and legitimately serve her in all the ways she could see fit. When it came to the play/romantic side of things, she introduced me to everything from my first kiss to my first flogging with a great deal of care. If she thought something might potentially scare or frighten me, she'd spend some time telling me about it and asking me if I was sure that I was ready. If I ever responded to it in a negative manner, consciously or unconsciously, she'd stop and then explain it all to me. In areas of personal service, she taught me exactly how she liked things done around the house. This included everything from exactly how she likes her coffee prepared to where various things are supposed to be. On my end of things, I sought to learn more things to please her. I learned how to give a pretty darn good massage, and I'm still in the process of teaching myself new things. Hell, while I think about it, she's still in the process of teaching me new things and we're both still in the process of learning new things about our dynamic.

We also didn't just play to my tastes, because I didn't -have- any. We played to her tastes, to what I thought I might like, and we even broke new ground for the both of us. In the end, we learned that we have very similar tastes, and I learned that I enjoyed a lot of things I never considered previously.

I think you'll find that you're constantly learning in life.

During the early days, she didn't punish me for every single misstep. She didn't want me, in my formative days, to live in absolute fear of her. To this day, I've never earned a punishment. I've made a handful of mistakes, but those simply needed a minor verbal correction, such as, "Fox, watch what you're doing." I think there are some people who seem to believe that every slave needs an obscure super-painful punishment to correct every little mistake.

"Hah, you forgot to call me Ma'am...well that's 37 3/4 strokes with the Tail of the Death Demon for you!" (Fox's Note: Though I'm obviously joking, something called the Tail of the Death Demon does sound cool in a slightly silly sort of way)

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with putting a large part of the relationship around intense discipline, because I know that churns some people's butter like there's absolutely no tomorrow... What I'm just trying to say is that I think sometimes people will feel the need to do it far sooner than either party is ready simply because it sounds hot in theory and, if they're inexperienced, it's what they've read, heard about, or imagined doing.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Rome wasn't built in a day. Etc. Etc.

Some people would actually argue I was introduced to a lot of things very quickly(in a matter of a few months, I already had a nice bit of experience) and I would argue that I went into things very slowly and with a lot of caution. I think this serves to illustrate that different people will also be ready for things at different times, which is also important to remember.

DV's Fox

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 7

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 3:13:09 PM

shadowcd

Posts: 88
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline

I'm fairly new so i guess maybe not the best one to answer the question but I can give an opinion on how I would love to be introduced to various things. maybe a mix of things like take something simple that I like already like being leashed and mix it with something I have no experiance with or may not be sure if I like. I think being leashed and then put in a cage which is a curiousity to me for a couple hours before anything happens would be a good break in :D then maybe something I know very little about that the Domme likes. I'm always willing to explore my limits in corperal punishment if they wanted to "test" me to see if i was able to handle it that would also be a good break in from my point of view. I am pretty sure that I am meant for this lifestyle even if i have very little experiance, but i suppose if I am to find out it's not I'd probally want to learn that sooner rather then later.
just my opinion though everyone is different and when it comes down to how I will eventually be broken into the lifestyle will probally not be up to me anyway :P

(in reply to Shawn1066)

Post #: 8

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 6:33:16 PM

DominaSusan

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline

Not that I’ve had tons of experience with newbies-but I like to start real slow with more sensual play and work up to flogging and maybe spanking or caning later on. However, you have it right, I have to closely monitor their body reactions in order to see where this is going. I would not be so keen on the sub directing my actions-kind of like toping from the bottom. However, before we start it’s always good to know what sorts of ideas they might have in mind. Just like reading a map really. I know the destination, I just need to know what some of the mile markers might look like for them.

(in reply to shadowcd)

Post #: 9

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 7:12:56 PM

Untouched1282

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline

Thank you for your responses, everyone :) I just liked poking about and seeing what makes others tick!

:) You'e helping me to learn a lot about fellow lifestylers, the lifestyle itself, and even a bit about myself, at least in an indirect manner.

Thanks :)

(in reply to DominaSusan)

Post #: 10

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 7:30:35 PM

LPslittleclip

Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline

step by step seems to be the best way to go. as a submissive i can attest that going to lifestyle events and gatherings helped allot. seeing others and discussing different types of play helped me allot. also going to play parties and seeing different play helped me to find different play that i found i enjoyed.

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 11

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 7:52:51 PM

MissSCD

Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline

First off, let me say that I don't think we can teach you this on the forums. This is something that requires knowledge of BDSM and pschology of a sub/slave.
I will share and let you know it is super frusterating to work with a novice. They may talk to you once, or not leave you alone. Ten to one they will quit on you about three times before you ever give them a Training Collar.
I learned how to do this from my own Mentor and suggest you get someone to guide you through the proper training process of becoming a sub/slave.
Good luck.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to shadowcd)

Post #: 12

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/14/2008 8:00:18 PM

Untouched1282

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline

I wasn't so much looking for The Way, as I was how other people have dealt with this situation. I am by no means looking for the right way, or a way to go about bringing myself into the lifestyle. As always, I'm just poking at people's brains to see how they think/feel about certain things.

(in reply to MissSCD)

Post #: 13

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/15/2008 12:43:03 AM

DelilahDeb

Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline

And sometimes a sub honestly believes that he has some experience, and it turns out to the surprise of both domina and subboy that he has had two different women, on separate occasions, top him one time each by restraining his wrists and flogging him and that's all. No dungeon or play party attendance, no munches or social networking except online, and a submissive nature with some significant but unidentified MommyDomme desires and a serious yen for CBT. Well.

Short result, we both learned a lot. He retreated from the relationship once. He returned, and eventually earned a second chance and discovered more about his submissive desires and fetishes. He did not learn how to serve. I learned more than he did, alas. I don't believe he ever understood that serving a domina is NOT the same as a bull servicing a cow. He did learn something of female dominance as compared to female sadism. I think. (No guarantee, really, what he managed to take away from the experience besides discovering that people in the scene don't think sissification or cross-dressing, etc., are nasty, horrid, toxic traits. So maybe when he goes looking for the domme of his dreams again, he'll look for a strict MommyDomme who wants to sissify, etc.

You know, Untouched, you're not going to find out how the water feels until you stick your toe in the water, or what it's like to ride a bike if you don't get on the bicycle. All the intellectual examination in the world doesn't replace 20 minutes attending a play party. And the only way to do that, in most communities, is to go to a munch and network.

Lady Delilah Deb

_____________________________

"All acts of love & pleasure are My rituals."
--from the Charge of the Goddess, a Wiccan teaching

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 14

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/15/2008 8:01:54 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

I approach a new to the whole scene person this way:
1. Lots of talk to find out what's attracted them to this in the first place. Also to get to know them as a person and to find out if there is any background info I should be aware of (eg any traumas).
2. Education ... lots of reading and answering questions and discussion to get them knowledgeable in theory about the basics, so they might understand better what questions to ask! This also weeds out a lot of those without staying power.
3. Checklist ... I get them to respond to what quickens them when they look at a checklist ... how they feel right now about certain activities, those that excite them, those that get their curiosity, those that terrify them. I assure them their feelings are likely to change in future and that's OK!
4. Safety ... I go through safe calls, safe words etc.
5. Negotiation pre-play ... talking about a first scene and SOME of the things it might entail. I try to tread a line between enough specifics to reassure them but not so specific that it will lose impact because they are just waiting for x to happen next.
6. First scene ... I will be sure to include at least 1 thing they found excited them when they looked at the list ... I play to hear a call of orange at least once so they (and I) can assess how far they can go at that point ... and I include at least 1 thing that didn't particularly excite them (but wasn't a hard limit of theirs either) which I enjoy ... I want them to have submitted to something that didn't especially float their boat. I usually try to include some form of domestic service too as ultimately that's what I want.

From there, it's a step by step exploration of different service and different play.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to DelilahDeb)

Post #: 15

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/15/2008 8:10:28 PM

Untouched1282

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelilahDeb

You know, Untouched, you're not going to find out how the water feels until you stick your toe in the water, or what it's like to ride a bike if you don't get on the bicycle. All the intellectual examination in the world doesn't replace 20 minutes attending a play party. And the only way to do that, in most communities, is to go to a munch and network.

While I appreciate your response, I don't know why you're making this about me. It's a rhetorical question. Yes, it relates to me and my experience, but I'm not looking for "The Way", if you will. I'm just curious to find out more about others.

(in reply to DelilahDeb)

Post #: 16

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/15/2008 10:54:39 PM

dragon2760

Posts: 114
Joined: 5/8/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

When I first met clip, he didn't have what I would term as "lifestyle" experience. What he did have at that point, was bottoming experience. There had been some prior exposure to the play aspects, but not especially the service. If any, he had the opportunity to witness it in other dynamics, but had not been in one himself.

Not only was he a masochist, but he also had a quality that the best desciption that I have for is that he had a submissive heart. He didn't just want to enjoy pain. He wanted to learn. He wanted to serve. He wanted structure. He wanted a place of belonging. He wanted to please Me. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

So, what I did was balance these things out and take small steps at a time with each. When I would establish a protocol for our time together, I would explain why I was putting it in place. We would have long talks about why I did certain things the way I did and why I believe certain things that I do. I would ask him about the way he interpreted them and how he felt about them. In addition, I also got him involved in the local community here, so he would have a broader perspective. I'm not big on thinking My way is the only way. It just happens to be the way that works for Me. I wanted him to know that there are other ways, too, that work for others.

I wouldn't especially call this "pandering to his interests". We had many interests in common. I just happened to be the one who had more experience when we met. Some of his growth I monitored, but not all of it. One example of this was that I wanted him involved in the submissive gatherings that, as a Dominant, I took no part of. I wanted him to have a well rounded base of learning experiences.

All I can say is, I got a wonderful return on My investment.

Damn, can we clone you.

< Message edited by dragon2760 -- 7/15/2008 10:55:07 PM >

_____________________________

"When two people are alone together, and one of them is naked and tied up, and the other is standing over them holding whips and other torture implements, this is not the time to have a serious mismatch of expectations." Jay Wiseman

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 17

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/16/2008 4:26:57 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

I never thought I would enjoy a 'noob'. Didn't want to bother with breaking one in. But I have been quite delighted with my Westie! I just go slow... Let him test the waters. Do a LOT of talking! Our first session was just little samples of this and that... whatever popped into my head. Second was considerably more intense. I found out he's quite the tank. I'll turn that boy into a pain slut yet!

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to dragon2760)

Post #: 18

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/16/2008 5:30:13 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragon2760

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
<Snipping this for space. It can be read above.>

Damn, can we clone you.

Thank you for the compliment, dragon. You're actually not the first person to ask Me that, but it's very sweet of you.

To keep this thread on the topic, and not make it about Me, I'd like to make a suggestion. For those who are new, and wishing to explore their submission, go into the local community. The thing is, I'm not unique. There are Dominants of quality, literally, everywhere. The thing is, you have to look for them. There are no less than four right here on this thread from different places all over the world. We really are out there. The thing is, if you want something of substance, you have to seek it out.

When you go into your local community, start asking questions. Does that Dominant have experience with new subs? Are they taking new subs on? How many people have they trained? What are their skills? By asking these few simple things, you can find out if that person might be a match for you. Remember to keep your standards high. If you think you are quality, don't accept anything less than quality in return.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to dragon2760)

Post #: 19

RE: Dealing with subs with NO lifestyle experience? - 7/16/2008 2:30:05 PM

MsDebbie

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline

In response to the many suggestions that inexperienced people would benefit by contacting a local group and attending a munch as a way of learning about the things you question, I would be happy to provide contact information for any of the groups in the Southern Ohio or Northern Kentucky area. We have a great community of friendly and welcoming people .
Happiness to you,
Debbie

(in reply to Untouched1282)

Post #: 20

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