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RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 4:30:11 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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You haven't stated whether the s-types or bottoms are male or female. I would suggest from the people I know, females are more likely to set up more safety precautions than males - but that is a generalisation.

I don't really see an issue how people take responsibility for their own safety unless you feel that the lack of common sense might place yourself in an awkward position at some point in the future. Personally I would question why you attract these types of people - it could possibly be the way you go about things - so the kind of people you attract.

the.dark.

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Post #: 21

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 4:32:16 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

If I trust you enough to play with you, then I don't feel the need for a safe call. To me that is for when you are first getting to know someone and don't have any trust built up.

a safe word is not always a matter of trust. It is necessary if something goes wrong during a scene that the Dom is not aware of...

Holly -
this here boi mentioned safe calls - which is not the same as a safeword.

the.dark.

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Post #: 22

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 4:37:30 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

If I trust you enough to play with you, then I don't feel the need for a safe call. To me that is for when you are first getting to know someone and don't have any trust built up.

a safe word is not always a matter of trust. It is necessary if something goes wrong during a scene that the Dom is not aware of...

That is true. However the op asked " arrange to call them at certain times during the evening so that they know you are safe" which is a safe call. I didn't see anything about safe words, which is why I didn't address that issue.

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Post #: 23

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 5:08:19 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I'm completely with thedark. Males have a tendency to think they are "safe" because they are dealing with a woman.

The last person that I had to instruct to put a safe call in place was clip. It was our first time playing privately and he was quite trusting of Me, but even then, I told him to take a good outside view of the situation. I was going to restrain him, gag him, and then he wouldn't have as much control as his 6'3" frame normally would. Also, I brought My husband to the play date. Was he really so sure that nothing could happen to him in a situation like that?

Most of the time, when I play casually, especially the first time around, it's in a public setting. This takes a lot of the need for safe calls out of the picture.

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Post #: 24

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 5:13:07 AM

Aileen1968

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I don't understand why it's so scary to meet someone in a public place that one would need a safecall. I suppose it's the fact that we hear in the news all the time about someone getting murdered or at the least the crap beat out of them while sitting across from their date in Starbucks. (yes, sarcasm was intended)
If you feel the need of a safecall or a buddy for a public meet then maybe you should be questioning whether you should be meeting that person at all.
If you're meeting someone privately and they intend to harm you, they will and they're not gonna stop when you say "Hey, mind if I take five to make my safecall, and then you can continue to murder me?" They would hurt you and be gone long before anyone would be pacing the floor waiting for that phone to ring. Safecalls are useless except for finding your body.

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Post #: 25

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 5:46:42 AM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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While I myself would never follow the practice; I do encourage others to. Unfortunatly, so many have been convinced that following this procedure means that they are not submissive. Men and women need to realize that being concerned for their own safety is more important than trying to convince others that they are 'just as submissive as everyone else.'

What a waste of intelligence

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Post #: 26

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 5:53:11 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
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OP, my guess is that the fact that you tell them that they should do this gives them MORE confidence in you because it is coming from a top.

I am a female switch. As a Domme I always have first meetings in a public place and have a rule that I will not have a session for at least 24 hours. I want both of us to be sure that we are comfortable with each other. Frankly, this is for my safety as much as theirs. It helps to weed out those who are only looking for sex.

As a sub, when I first met the man who became my Master I let people know where I was going to meet him and when. Again, it was in a public place. I trusted him enough between our previous conversations and the meeting to go with him to a hotel. We took separate cars. We had talked about safety in advance. I had a cell phone with me and was prepared to make a call if necessary. I continued letting people know for the next few sessions where I would be going and when until I was comfortable.

I think you are doing an admirable thing, and I applaud you for it. I had a first session with a sub last week who I had met in person once before, and as I reviewed things like safe words with us the phrase "safety first" became a joke between us. I have other safety rules I explain, like never using a toy for the first time on someone without showing it to them, explaining how it is used, and telling about the safety precautions I will take. (After the first time I do this they can expect it to be used at any point in a further session without an explanation.) I explain that I will watch the clock to make sure that things like nipple clamps are not left on too long so they don't need to worry about that. I have never had anyone call out a safe word on me though I have taken them further than they thought they could go. Safety and trust go hand in hand, and the Dom/me needs to be vigilant this way. A sub may feel so safe with a responsible Dom/me that they don't think to use other safety measures on their own.

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Post #: 27

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 5:59:28 AM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm completely with thedark. Males have a tendency to think they are "safe" because they are dealing with a woman.

i certainly won't argue that. There's one other thing, though-

If you're a man meeting a Woman for a play date, and you aren't "networked" with the local BDSM community, or on close enough terms with someone outside the local area that you feel comfortable giving them the responsibility of being your safe call, and having to possibly contact emergency services on your behalf if they don't hear from you...

... then it's kinda awkward trying to explain the whole concept to a vanilla acquaintance. i think women have more of a societal acceptance of this sort of thing- male violence against women is all too common, so for a woman to contact a friend and say, hey, I'm going to meet this guy off the Internet, can I make arrangements to call you and make sure nothing goes wrong... She's probably not going to have a problem with that.

On the other hand, if you're a heterosexual male, trying to explain to one of your vanilla buddies that you're worried about your safety when meeting a woman for the first time... you're going to have a hard time getting them to stop laughing hard enough to listen. If you don't want to discuss the whole i'm-going-to-be-tied-up thing, it's going to seem really strange. So i think guys are more likely to decide, hey, what are the odds that anything is going to happen that I can't handle myself?

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 28

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 6:54:29 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm completely with thedark. Males have a tendency to think they are "safe" because they are dealing with a woman.

i certainly won't argue that. There's one other thing, though-

If you're a man meeting a Woman for a play date, and you aren't "networked" with the local BDSM community, or on close enough terms with someone outside the local area that you feel comfortable giving them the responsibility of being your safe call, and having to possibly contact emergency services on your behalf if they don't hear from you...

... then it's kinda awkward trying to explain the whole concept to a vanilla acquaintance. i think women have more of a societal acceptance of this sort of thing- male violence against women is all too common, so for a woman to contact a friend and say, hey, I'm going to meet this guy off the Internet, can I make arrangements to call you and make sure nothing goes wrong... She's probably not going to have a problem with that.

On the other hand, if you're a heterosexual male, trying to explain to one of your vanilla buddies that you're worried about your safety when meeting a woman for the first time... you're going to have a hard time getting them to stop laughing hard enough to listen. If you don't want to discuss the whole i'm-going-to-be-tied-up thing, it's going to seem really strange. So i think guys are more likely to decide, hey, what are the odds that anything is going to happen that I can't handle myself?

I agree with you, petdave, about the odd position it can be for a male. It is difficult when people don't have the option of public play, if they are going straight to private, and don't feel that they have anyone they can rely on to be on the other end of a safe call. From one person (non gender specific) do it anyway.

Yes, it might be a little awkward to set this up with a vanilla friend, but pick one. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter much if they are male or female. There might be someone in your life who isn't especially going to ask questions.

Another method is this: You may not be "networked" in the community where you are, but hit one munch. When you introduce yourself, tell others in attendance that you are there specifically because you *don't* have anyone as your safe call. In most cases, there will be someone who understands the situation and is willing to be that for you.

I've been the safe call person for a few folks that I didn't know very well. Heck, there was even one time I was the safe call person for someone I hadn't even met. (She reached Me through the yahoo site. She was coming to play with a local member here.) Point is, I still say it's a worthwhile practice.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Post #: 29

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 7:29:02 AM

TwoDommeDivas

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Joined: 7/7/2008
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There are some really wonderful thoughts in this thread, so far.

One thing I'd like to add, is that sometimes we do play publicly with someone on a first play date. And we like to ramp up the intensity by staging a "kidnap" scene, if they are willing. Surprisingly, a LOT of men are into this. We will meet them somewhere and blindfold and restrain them, then drive them to the play date. In that situation, we really go out of our way to advise them as to safe calls, etc., since that is such an inherently out-of-control situation.

Of course, we are entirely trustworthy and they are completely safe at all times, but we think the ritual of advising them lets them have a comfort level, while at the same time becomes part of our psychological "ramp up" in control. Pre-play instructions can act as a kind of foreplay, even safety instructions. It is all part and parcel of our psychological domination of a sub.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 30

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 7:37:52 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
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why does the call for being safe so heavily placed on the submissives (hate being called bottom)? safety should also be your concern as well.

to answer your question, i don't give my trust away as if it was candy to anyone. you have to earn it. plus i have to be comfortable with you before there's any playing to happen. if i'm not comfortable, there's no further meetings.

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Post #: 31

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 7:43:08 AM

TwoDommeDivas

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Joined: 7/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

why does the call for being safe so heavily placed on the submissives (hate being called bottom)? safety should also be your concern as well.

to answer your question, i don't give my trust away as if it was candy to anyone. you have to earn it. plus i have to be comfortable with you before there's any playing to happen. if i'm not comfortable, there's no further meetings.

As indicated in the thread title and the OP, it's not about safety, it's about "reassurance." IOW, it's about comfort level for a new sub. Complete submission relies on comfort level as a prerequisite. At least, for sane people, it does.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 32

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 7:48:49 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
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From: Chicago, IL
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it's also about comfort level for dominants as well.

in my pov, you two seem to trust people automatically thus showing very little concern about your own safety. if the submissive in question doesn't want "reassurance" then that's on them. they, in mho, trust too easily and readily to anyone who slaps a "dominant" title.

as i stated, i have to be comfortable with you ...so my trust has to be earned. you're not going to get it after a few messages exchanged sans a phone conversation. you're going to have to work for it.

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Post #: 33

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 8:00:24 AM

TwoDommeDivas

Posts: 36
Joined: 7/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

it's also about comfort level for dominants as well.

in my pov, you two seem to trust people automatically thus showing very little concern about your own safety. if the submissive in question doesn't want "reassurance" then that's on them. they, in mho, trust too easily and readily to anyone who slaps a "dominant" title.

as i stated, i have to be comfortable with you ...so my trust has to be earned. you're not going to get it after a few messages exchanged sans a phone conversation. you're going to have to work for it.

Since we are two people, rather than one, we are inherently safer. But -- and I saw no reason to bring this up until you mentioned it -- we always use a safe-person for a first play date, as well. And, as I have said elsewhere, we always meet first in a public place and often play first in a club setting. And we get subs naked, so that they have no concealed weapons. And we immediately take complete control. So we take care of ourselves. We don't need to trust them, though if we've gotten as far as playing with someone, we do.

We NEVER let anyone know where we live, unless we have gotten to know them very well and played with them several times. Men, anyway. We are quicker to let women over.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 8:00:29 AM

YourhandMyAss

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Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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If someone was a killer bent on killing the submissive their meeting, safe calls won't stop that. Nor does it mean you're automatically safe, things could be going well when I call to say they're fine, and then could take a turn for the worse the minute I was off the phone.

To imply that subs who do safe calls are at any less risk to be killed than subs who don't is a bit silly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoDommeDivas

When we arrange to meet a sub for his or her first play date with us, we always tell them the same thing: tell someone where you will be and when you will be home, and arrange to call them at certain times during the evening so that they know you are safe. Not a single sub has ever followed through with that, though. I'm not sure why, though I speculate that it is because people (unjustifiably) fear women less than men.

Tops, do you do something like this? Bottoms, does that kind of thing reassure you and make you trust enough to let go? Is any of that necessary? Is there some standard thing that people do?

We like to meet early on. No long telephone relationships for us. We'll exchange a few emails, and if we're interested we want to meet and see if there is an in-person connection. No wasting anyone's time. So, for our method, we think subs would want to be very careful. But they NEVER are.

I don't get it. Do you people actually want us to kill you, or something???

M. Dana

(in reply to TwoDommeDivas)

Post #: 35

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 8:05:07 AM

TwoDommeDivas

Posts: 36
Joined: 7/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

If someone was a killer bent on killing the submissive their meeting, safe calls won't stop that. Nor does it mean you're automatically safe, things could be going well when I call to say they're fine, and then could take a turn for the worse the minute I was off the phone.

To imply that subs who do safe calls are at any less risk to be killed than subs who don't is a bit silly.

I disagree. Knowing that a sub has measures in place to alert authorities is a good deterrant for doms who are considering wilfull harm. You'd have to be a real fucking nutjob to know the police would have your photo, name, whereabouts, etc., and then to go ahead and kill the sub anyway. Chances are, if you've taken precautions, a dom bent on murder or harm will pick someone else for their victim.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 36

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 8:11:25 AM

christine1

Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

If someone was a killer bent on killing the submissive their meeting, safe calls won't stop that. Nor does it mean you're automatically safe, things could be going well when I call to say they're fine, and then could take a turn for the worse the minute I was off the phone.

To imply that subs who do safe calls are at any less risk to be killed than subs who don't is a bit silly.

well, that wasn't very reassuring...

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Post #: 37

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 8:14:54 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

why does the call for being safe so heavily placed on the submissives (hate being called bottom)? safety should also be your concern as well.

to answer your question, i don't give my trust away as if it was candy to anyone. you have to earn it. plus i have to be comfortable with you before there's any playing to happen. if i'm not comfortable, there's no further meetings.

I can't answer for anybody else, but as a female Top, who said I *don't* use the practive of safe calls?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 38

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 8:35:32 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
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Generally speaking I don't do a safe call. This is because, until I know someone very well, I play in public, and meet in public. Joe Public offers me far more protection than a safe call does. All a safe can do for me during a public meet, is create the knowledge that something has (past tense) happened to me ... not stop something bad from (present tense) happening. Now if I was bundled into a car in a safe public place (Starbucks for instance) .. even in polite old England someone would take down the number and call the police. No safe call can help with that. If someone stabs me to death in Borders, again, someone will make a note of it I should imagine and a safe call will be less than helpful.

Maybe the subs are thinking along the lines I am ... or maybe you just pick subs who dont think

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Post #: 39

RE: Reassuring subs - 7/15/2008 8:45:30 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

Generally speaking I don't do a safe call. This is because, until I know someone very well, I play in public, and meet in public. Joe Public offers me far more protection than a safe call does. All a safe can do for me during a public meet, is create the knowledge that something has (past tense) happened to me ... not stop something bad from (present tense) happening. Now if I was bundled into a car in a safe public place (Starbucks for instance) .. even in polite old England someone would take down the number and call the police. No safe call can help with that. If someone stabs me to death in Borders, again, someone will make a note of it I should imagine and a safe call will be less than helpful.

Maybe the subs are thinking along the lines I am ... or maybe you just pick subs who dont think

That is exactly why i avoid Borders at all costs....i cant tell you the number of bloodied chalk lines ive had to step over to get to the self-help section.

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Post #: 40

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