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what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 9:59:33 AM   
misskittyslave


Posts: 42
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline 		i have thought long and hard lately about what a D/s or M/s relationship that is healthy means to me. while each relationship is unique and while each person needs vary and differ slightly i feel (an this is only my opinion) that there are some basic foundations to a solid relationship

Communication-not only is the submissive supposed to open herself freely to a dominant but it needs some level of communication returned to ensure that it is pleasing Him/Her and something more so that it is able to trust that person with their lives their emotional and physical well being.

Understanding-while a slave/submissive needs structure and asks for guidence and discipline, there also comes a time when they require tender loving care. Understanding, compassion

it is my opinion when a normally obedient slave or submissive starts to rebel it is not because they are being "bad" or are "no longer submissive" but rather perhaps because something is troubling them and feel they cannot communicate or be understood if they try. so they do the one thing that they can do...rebel

i feel often times that Dominants forget especially in long term relationships that the slave who is so usually well behaved still has feelings and needs. That sometimes something else is going on and they are struggling. More discipline or more structure isnt always what is needed sometimes what is needed is simple care tenderness.

It is my opionion that the strongest of Dominants can lay down Their iron fists sometimes and be that gentle teddy bear or friend to their submissive and not judge their feelings but rather just listen once in a while to them rant about how they are feeling. Sometimes it might help them be reassured and reaffirm their belief and faith in themselves and their relationship and give them the strength to surrender again.

slaves are still human. still have needs wants dreams desires. their desire to serve and be of good use to their Owners if they are real is always in the forefront of their minds and when being in this state of rebellion are often in pain and inner conflict for doing.

i suggest then that to fix a problem a strong dominant listen without judgement and offer solace not just a whip. there is punishment to be had for rebellion yes, and after what is troubling said submissive is fixed i am certain they would welcome it but to keep punishing the behavior without getting to the bottom of it is only a means to instill resentment and anger and a breakdown of a relationship.

Communication and Understanding run both ways in relationships the ones that survive and flourish are the ones where all parties involved take the time to ensure that it occurs regularly and freely without resenting the need for it.

Once the slave can get a footholding on their emotions and feel safe in that they will be taken care of they can allow their body to follow and be obedient. a good friend of mine said control the mind the body will follow. i further that with control the heart and soul and their is limitless power that a dominant can have.

i would lastly like to note that control comes from one of two places fear or respect. i think that the strongest most lasting relationships are built on respect. fear can bring on the fight or flight scenario that is prehardwired into us and can burn out a relationship...these are only my thoughts an opinions....

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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 10:53:04 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		A werry nice post, i think that comunication is always the key. Somtimes when one is mentaly upset, or perhaps even ill, to be the perfect submissive is hard, the problem is if such periods are not negotiated on beforehand, the slave have no right to demand them, though a wise Master will often give it anyway, after all he wants his property to shine. Ofcourse it can always be dificult to know ecactly what is bad behavior and what is a cry for help and comfort, so usualy the best thing is to tell the Master what one feel.

(in reply to misskittyslave)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 10:57:31 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: misskittyslave
it is my opinion when a normally obedient slave or submissive starts to rebel it is not because they are being "bad" or are "no longer submissive" but rather perhaps because something is troubling them and feel they cannot communicate or be understood if they try. so they do the one thing that they can do...rebel

Yes passive aggressive attempts is a very common action amongst subs, specially newbies. They are not yet confident or trusting enough to just be honest and direct with themselves or the people they are in relationships with.
quote:

i suggest then that to fix a problem a strong dominant listen without judgement and offer solace not just a whip. there is punishment to be had for rebellion yes, and after what is troubling said submissive is fixed i am certain they would welcome it but to keep punishing the behavior without getting to the bottom of it is only a means to instill resentment and anger and a breakdown of a relationship.

Disobedience is usually a sign of a deeper problem, agreed.
quote:

i would lastly like to note that control comes from one of two places fear or respect. i think that the strongest most lasting relationships are built on respect. fear can bring on the fight or flight scenario that is prehardwired into us and can burn out a relationship...these are only my thoughts an opinions....

I would also add that this is another good example of why not to become involved in a committed relationship unless you are sure you can hold to that commitment AND that no matter how hard it is to be direct and obey, ultimately you chose to take responsiblity for those things.

(in reply to misskittyslave)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 11:29:27 AM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		Comunication is part of the process of understanding, but only new or surface relationships is it the major part. Long term committed relationships also draw upon history and hopefully and intuitive understanding. So much of what my wife needs she never speaks of, sometimes does not even know herself. I know her not only from what she has said over twenty years, but also by what she has not said and how she has acted. I knew for instance that she needed to be my slave but it took me 18 years to figure this out, and she still is not convinced. I know because I have been paying attention to her and taking notes, but she has certainly never said to me directly that she needs me to take control, that she needs to serve.

I think domination requires right action at the right time which cannot be done unless the dominant has a good understanding of both himself and the submissive. The right action is not always force. We have to be hard, but must be so at the right time. I don't understand how dominants who think they must be hard all of the time keep submissives over the long haul. Maybe they don't and don't want to??

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 11:33:43 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		i agree, but i also think i would get confused if i misbhaved and my Master did not react like he used to, he would corect the bad behavior first and then sit me down and ask me why this happend.

(in reply to ICGsteve)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 1:20:58 PM   
nonuts4thshoney


Posts: 550
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Not too long ago i totally rebelled and went nuts!! i think alot of it is because i am a newbie and have only been in the lifestyle for about 6 monthes now. i agree with LuckyAlbatross when she says "They are not yet confident or trusting enough to just be honest and direct with themselves or the people they are in relationships with. " i had alot troubling me and didn't know how to voice my feelings properly because i was worried that i'd be doing something wrong. Sorry if this sounds kinda stupid or like i wasn't using common sense but this is realy how i was thinking. So i kept things bottled in and then i rebelled. Now i'm not sure if this was a good thing or not. But alot of positives came out of this negative experience for us. Maybe things happen for a reason.

< Message edited by nonuts4thshoney -- 11/13/2005 1:21:42 PM >

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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 1:46:17 PM   
misskittyslave


Posts: 42
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline 		ji am very happy that your Owner took the time to ensure growth and development over the last six months you are fortunate in that you are heard and listened to respectfully it is a basic need often overlooked i fear and i see many relationships fail due to one perhaps not so simple task...communication. smiles

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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 6:06:44 PM   
asiandoll27


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		Not yet confident and just a little bit of shy mixed in tend to be a problem when being a slave - as much as you want to over come them and be obedient.

(in reply to misskittyslave)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 7:25:32 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney
Sorry if this sounds kinda stupid or like i wasn't using common sense but this is realy how i was thinking. So i kept things bottled in and then i rebelled. Now i'm not sure if this was a good thing or not. But alot of positives came out of this negative experience for us. Maybe things happen for a reason.


AS (hopefully) this thread makes clear, it's completely normal (well, not unexpected), so there's no reason to feel bad or silly about it.

From the dom side, I'll say this was one of the situations that was hardest to really grasp when i started -- that most every sub will go through rebellious times. And that regardless, as nephandi points out, we still need to be consistent about discipline. It's tempting to say that if a gripe is legitimate that the offenses it caused can be written off, but that winds up not being beneficial for anyone.

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/13/2005 8:22:20 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Just as when you are raising children of keeping cats, to be inconsitent can cause insecurity, if my cat do somthing she is not meant to, like scratching the sofa, i first corect her then figure out why did she do it, perhaps she need a bigger scratching stand, and i get that for her, but consistency is inportant always.

(in reply to obis)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/22/2005 10:36:22 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline 		communication yes.
of course.
understanding? on who's part?
it is usually easier in MYeyes for a sub to understand a domme than it is for a domme to understand a sub,....ergo MY situation.

there are many many things SHE has NO concept of.....
"A" being male
for starters
"B"
why i cannot get attached.

and etc

understanding IS hard but i think moreso for the D than the s.

just MY bird's eye view.

take care


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to misskittyslave)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/22/2005 10:52:26 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Acting out behavior can be caused by many factors, anxiety, fear, frustration, perceived lack of attention, competition, testing of boundaries, etc. The first order of business is for the Dominant to correct the presenting problem, then deal with the underlying motivation, which may be either deliberate or subconscious.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to veronicaofML)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/22/2005 10:59:20 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline 		Acting out behavior can be caused by many factors, anxiety, fear, frustration, perceived lack of attention, competition, testing of boundaries, etc. The first order of business is for the Dominant to correct the presenting problem, then deal with the underlying motivation, which may be either deliberate or subconscious.

(in reply to veronicaofML)
Report | Post #: 12

--------------------------------

IF you are talking to me here...i have no acting out but i do a lot of stuff not knowing i am doing it coz i am blue collar and She is white collar and we are NOT in the same social class.


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: what a slave needs - 11/22/2005 11:29:39 PM   
CanisMajor


Posts: 42
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I seem to go through this about every six weeks to three months or so with canisminor; it will probably never change. She goes nuts, gets rebellious, throws tantrums, causes drama, or whatever. And then we have to sit down and I have to trot out my lecture about how whatever it is that is bothering her, there is a right way and a wrong way to express it. The right way is to talk about it with me in clear, unambiguous terms. The wrong way is to blow up and make the rest of the household guess what is going on.

Caring and compassion are my normal modus operandi in my relationships. But caring and compassion are always imperfectly practiced, no matter whose relationship you look at. This leads to problems. I'm of the mindset that mature adults talk about their problems rather than acting out like a child, but then again, maturity is always imperfectly practiced, too. So there are bound to be incidents in which someone acts out, and instances when another thinks someone is acting out even if they aren't, etc. It is important to me that we get over those times with as little drama, hostility, and emotional hurt as possible. It is far less important to me to avoid such times altogether, because I think that is a foolish expectation.

One thing you said that I disagree with as a premise is:

quote:

...perhaps because something is troubling them and feel they cannot communicate or be understood if they try. so they do the one thing that they can do...rebel


We are often in a situation in which something is troubling us. But we always have a choice about how we behave as a result. There is always more than just "one thing" that can be done in response to a situation or an internal emotional state. My sub knows this, and she knows she'll be held accountable for her behaviour. What she's not held accountable for are her feelings. Feelings are not moral issues in this house, and people aren't blamed for having them, even when they seem like really ridiculous or irrational feelings to others. It is difficult for a person to know themselves, and anyone making that effort is valued here, so no matter what strange feelings are expressed, we reckon it OK to have explored that side of self and to have shared that with the rest of us. But no feeling can be used as an excuse to do something that hurts someone else. I don't regulate how people feel; but I certainly do regulate how they act as a result.


_____________________________

The Big Dog

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RE: what a slave needs - 11/23/2005 11:21:04 AM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline 		i would lastly like to note that control comes from one of two places fear or respect.
=========
fear OR respect?

just 2 choices?

how ABOUT if i do it...just coz.?
how ABOUT if i just-let-Her.......?

can this be a 3rd?

take care


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to misskittyslave)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: what a slave needs - 11/23/2005 12:43:50 PM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline 		VERY well put!! I do aftercare with every scene, no matter HOW well I know the slave or how long we have played together. I always ask "How are you? How are you feeling? Do you have questions?" etc. I try to NEVER assume a slave feels this way or that way or is OK with this or that... because assumptions can be SO dangerous in a relationship.

I try never to take My power for granted. "Oh, he'll obey! he wants this." Uh uh! The four components of any slave or sub (or Dom/me for that matter) body, mind, heart and soul MUST be addressed. The body, check to see if the bonds are too tight, if that position is cramping, is the play too light/heavy? Is he nearing his limit? Mind: Is my slave bored? Is he learning? Am I talking to him as a human or a pet? Can I learn from him? Am I keeping him interested? Heart: Am I suppressing his emotional needs? Does he obey out of love or fear? Is he unhappy? Is he feeling supported otr abandoned? Soul: where does his submissiveness come from? can I support him as he searches for his Divine? etc.

A good dominant is not a "boss" s/he is a parent and a friend as well. I "own" My slaves and subs in the old sense of the word "to own" which means to have, to posses, to *acknowledge* and to take responsibility for, as in "to own up" to a thing.

Lady Sonelle

_____________________________

Come to My domain and read My Lessons online! http://www.LadySonelle.com then place yourself beneath My loving Hand!

(in reply to misskittyslave)
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