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RE: Sharon Tate - 7/16/2008 8:09:28 PM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		i read the book Helter Skelter. I think an above comment could be in error.

I don't think she should be released.

(in reply to tkenslve)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/16/2008 8:14:25 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Wow ,there wer so many typo's in my last post,I should be in prison...sorry !


This post too.  ,
Wow again, that is going to have to be some beating !!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/16/2008 8:16:02 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

i read the book Helter Skelter. I think an above comment could be in error.

I don't think she should be released.
I think I was 19 when I read it ,chilled to the bone is the only thing that comes to mind....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to winterlight)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/16/2008 8:46:06 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
luci, while I think this a worthy goal, I have a hard time finding it within myself to excuse a murderer
Well, so do I.  I'm not saying we should "excuse" what she did in any way.  I'm just saying that I don't think she is a danger to society these days.  Freeing her is not going to create more murders (unless it's someone murdering her).


I understand your point better after reading about punishment vs. rehabilitation.  I view prison as pure punishment, so that rather explains why I believe she should finish her life in jail. 


(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/16/2008 9:02:26 PM   
angelicbitch


Posts: 224
Joined: 1/19/2004
Status: offline 		 I don't believe if you kill someone that you are gonna be rehabilitated... I had a friend who was 26 yrs old had a beautiful 5 yr old lil girl.. and a guy I had known since i was 15.. was working on this friends house. ( I was 29 when this happened) My friend was to show up at work and never made it... her father went to her house and found her nude and dead in her basement behind her water heater. The official cause of death was stragulation, a ruptured liver and she was stabbed in the chest. ( she also had been raped) ... Now the guy who I had known since I was 15 was convicted of this crime. He was out on parole for a previous rape served 4 or 6 years in prison for it. My friend was murdered in November,a month before he killed one of my dearest friends he raped another girl and threatened to kill her three month old baby if she told.!!! He is now serving a life plus 25 years in prison for being a three time loser.He was a habitual offender and will never see the light of day or breathe fresh air because he is deemed a danger to society. He was in prison on a rape convition... and was NOT rehabilitated!! Because when he was released he went and did the same thing ... and this time it resulted in someone loosing her life and a lil girl was left without her mother!!!  
   Granted the girls in the Tate murder didn't ever commit a crime like this before that night. Most if I remember correctly were petty crimes. But still I think if you take someones life and are convicted you stay in prison even if you are terminally ill..... you were sentenced to life or whatever then life it should be ....  you should not be allowed to be released.
    My whole point to this was I was reading this thread to my brother. And he brought up very good points... those girls and most of the Manson followers thought Manson was either a messasger from God, or was a God. He looked for people he could manipulate and program to do his bidding. Either way it was wrong.

Again not that this had anything to do with the thread at hand ... but I have seen some posts that speak of rehabilitaion and from what I hve seen and what I have known ... people like that ( sick or not) are not rehabilitated!!!!!!

Sorry for the additional Posts

Peace
Angelic

(in reply to NeedingMore220)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/16/2008 9:35:10 PM   
lighthearted


Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

~FR~

I think it all depends on your opinion of why a person "should" stay locked up.  If it's solely as punishment for their crime, then she should stay.  There's not enough incarceration to punish her as badly as she hurt others. 

However, if it's an issue of staying until one is "rehabilitated" (however you personally define that), she should be released.  There is no doubt in my mind that she and every one of the other Manson family killers have changed tremendously over the last nearly-40 years.  I've seen interviews with Patricia Krenwinkel and Leslie VanHouten where they express their remorse and tell how sick it makes them that people in the world idolize them and Manson and what they did.  I wouldn't mind taking Susan Adkins into my home as far as how much fear I have that she'd commit another violent crime.  I just don't think any of them would.

So, to me, I feel kind of split on the idea of her being released.  She shouldn't get off easily for what she did but 40 years of prison isn't easy.  Yes, it's "easier" than being slaughtered and I'm not saying she should be coddled.  Do I think she'd murder again?  No way. 

There's been a general attitude here of "she should get what she gave."  She didn't give any compassion.  But the truly compassionate give it where it's least deserved.  Just a thought..................luci


it's my understanding that Susan Atkins has never expressed remorse for her crimes, unlike the other two women.  that in and of itself would make me inclined not to even consider her request.

< Message edited by lighthearted -- 7/16/2008 9:37:17 PM >

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(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 7:57:56 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lighthearted
it's my understanding that Susan Atkins has never expressed remorse for her crimes, unlike the other two women.  that in and of itself would make me inclined not to even consider her request.

Yeah, it's pretty difficult to have compassion on someone who is suffering when they have never shown any for the suffering they purposely inflicted in many others.  I honestly think she should stay where she is.  It just occurred to me, though, that the ones I have heard speak (Krenwinkel and Van Houten) really seem eaten up by what they did and would do anything to undo it.  If Atkins has really never expressed remorse (I don't know), she really must have no conscience at all.  If 40 years of prison doesn't cause one to soul search and see the error of their ways, nothing will I suppose..........luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to lighthearted)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 8:04:48 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelicbitch

I don't believe if you kill someone that you are gonna be rehabilitated... I had a friend who was 26 yrs old had a beautiful 5 yr old lil girl.. and a guy I had known since i was 15.. was working on this friends house. ( I was 29 when this happened) My friend was to show up at work and never made it... her father went to her house and found her nude and dead in her basement behind her water heater. The official cause of death was stragulation, a ruptured liver and she was stabbed in the chest. ( she also had been raped) ... Now the guy who I had known since I was 15 was convicted of this crime. He was out on parole for a previous rape served 4 or 6 years in prison for it. My friend was murdered in November,a month before he killed one of my dearest friends he raped another girl and threatened to kill her three month old baby if she told.!!! He is now serving a life plus 25 years in prison for being a three time loser.He was a habitual offender and will never see the light of day or breathe fresh air because he is deemed a danger to society. He was in prison on a rape convition... and was NOT rehabilitated!! Because when he was released he went and did the same thing ... and this time it resulted in someone loosing her life and a lil girl was left without her mother!!!  
  Granted the girls in the Tate murder didn't ever commit a crime like this before that night. Most if I remember correctly were petty crimes. But still I think if you take someones life and are convicted you stay in prison even if you are terminally ill..... you were sentenced to life or whatever then life it should be ....  you should not be allowed to be released.
   My whole point to this was I was reading this thread to my brother. And he brought up very good points... those girls and most of the Manson followers thought Manson was either a messasger from God, or was a God. He looked for people he could manipulate and program to do his bidding. Either way it was wrong.

Again not that this had anything to do with the thread at hand ... but I have seen some posts that speak of rehabilitaion and from what I hve seen and what I have known ... people like that ( sick or not) are not rehabilitated!!!!!!

Sorry for the additional Posts

Peace
Angelic

Along the lines of what you wrote above.....Back in the early '90's, I worked as a rehab counselor at a maxiumum security men's prison where I dealt mostly with sex offenders.  I went in there with rose-colored glasses thinking that anyone could be rehabilitated.  I left there a couple years later knowing better.  The murderers, thiefs, and general neer-do-well's, I still believe, can and are often rehabilitated.  Sex offenders - no way in hell.

I honestly believe we are all "hardwired" as to what excites us sexually.  They are as well.  NOTHING is going to change that.  All we and they can hope to change is whether or not they ACT upon their impulses and fantasies.  They are always going to want to rape, abuse children, etc.  I believe they CAN learn to control those impulses and not act on them.  But nothing can make them not be aroused by thinking of it.  I came away from that job older and much wiser.  For some of the sex offenders, the only thing that can protect society is for them to simply be denied the OPPORTUNITY to re-offend.

I saw certain other inmates in that same light but, overall, I left believing with near certainty that many others, including murderers, can and do change and would never reoffend.  We can't just make a blanket statement that murderers can't be rehabilitated.  Murder occurs under many different circumstances and not all killers are bloodthirsty psychopaths just waiting for the next victim (though some certainly are)................luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to angelicbitch)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 3:01:10 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		The argument, I guess, is acedemic at this point. A saw a brief notice on Yahoo News this morning that she had died yesterday. 7/16/08.




(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 3:02:50 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		*temporary hijack
 
Does chemical castration improve the liklihood that a sex offender will not repeat the behavior? 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 3:08:51 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

The argument, I guess, is acedemic at this point. A saw a brief notice on Yahoo News this morning that she had died yesterday. 7/16/08.






I can't find that anywhere, could you provide a link please.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 7:10:37 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

*temporary hijack
 
Does chemical castration improve the liklihood that a sex offender will not repeat the behavior? 

There are those who argue both ways and of course one can find statistics in favor of yay and nay.  There were a couple of offenders that I worked closely with at the prison who had been on Depo-Provera and by all indications it didn't work very well.  They still had strong sexual urges and it caused other physical problems for them such as weight gain and depression, so they reported.

Not having an erection doesn't prevent penetration as there have been numerous cases of victims being raped with broomhandles, branches, tire irons, etc.  It may decrease the urge in some offenders but, by those guys self-reports, not in all.  Short of some type of specialized brain surgery to reverse their urges, I haven't seen anything I consider totally successful in the "rehabbing sex offenders department". 

Dr. Fred Berlin at Johns Hopkins, I believe, has done extensive research and study in the field.  Fascinating stuff................luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 7/17/2008 7:12:42 PM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 7:11:45 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

The argument, I guess, is acedemic at this point. A saw a brief notice on Yahoo News this morning that she had died yesterday. 7/16/08.

I can't find that anywhere, could you provide a link please.

I couldn't find anything either............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 7:16:12 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for the insider's view, luci.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 7:29:02 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Thank you for the insider's view, luci.

You're welcome.  It was a fascinating job experience.  Talk about being up close and personal with some bad mofo's.  Interesting and sometimes scary....................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/17/2008 7:57:00 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		That was the correct decision for them to make.  Doesn't the follower look almost human compared to when she did in the 60s?
If one person on this earth deserved the death pentality, it would be Charles Manson.
The thing is now that crime is nothing conpared to the crime that exisits today.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to NeedingMore220)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Sharon Tate - 7/18/2008 1:40:47 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		My answer depends on how I look at it. Do I think she deserves to be released? No. But considering her physical state, I'd much rather someone else pay for her end of life expenses than the state. So... *shrugs*

If they could do some sort of "You've been released to die so if you magically get better, it's back to jail for you" I might support that simply because of the expense of providing medical care.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to NeedingMore220)
Profile   Post #: 57
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