RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way?

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/16/2008 9:17:29 PM)
Maybe he can start a club to pine for the good old days of the Bush Administration.

Owner59 -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/16/2008 10:11:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dadawaits4u Should we look at another candidate? in question,, Bob Barr? [sm=pigsfly.gif][sm=rofl.gif] What exactly does Bob Barr have to offer ?

TheHeretic -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/16/2008 11:01:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 What exactly does Bob Barr have to offer ? He'll pull conservative support from under, McCain, and give those usually reliable D votes of the rascist percentile a non-R option. You're not thinking this through, O59. You need to think Barr is an asset to the race, and should be included in the debates. A three-way race is going to work to Barry's advantage. It worked for Bill.

Thadius -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 3:00:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber It was mentioned a couple of weeks ago on MSNBC's "Countdown." But of course, if you can't find it, then it must not exist... I asked for a link to verify what you were saying, just because I can't find it doesn't mean it isn't there... I am far from being that ego-centric. Oh and for the record... MSNBC provides transcripts online to the Countdown (including where video breaks take place). http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/ Perhaps, it was another show? The only reason I am spending time on this is that you have a habit of stating things as fact, providing no links, and getting upset when folks ask for the link so they can read the context. I am quite often wrong about things, and if I am I appreciate it when somebody points me to the correct information. ------- Back on topic, Both parties are mere shells of what they were a decade or more ago, neither has a claim on being for anybody but themselves, let alone being the party of integrity. It really is a shame, that partisan bickering and scoring political points has become more important to both sides than what is in the best interest of "We the people".

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 3:28:19 AM)
quote: Compare and contrast that to McCain's reaction to Stephen Colbert's "green screen challenge" where viewers were asked to come up with satirical uses for some video culled from the night Obama sewed up the primaries. McCain first looked into suing the Comedy Channel, and having those who participated in the challenge placed under surveilance. (This is the kind of America you want to live in?) When he realized that doing so would probably brand him as the "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" candidate again... he dropped it. I went to MSNBC and typed, "Green screen", "Colbert Report", McCain, lawsuit. I tried it in several variations, excluding some words. I came up with nothing. It never happened, and you are making this up Bipolarber. It's just like the time you concocted a story about McCain's mother getting drunk at a country club in Panama. I think you hear what you want to hear when you watch the news.

RealityLicks -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 4:06:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Yup, Senator Obama is a man of the people. Not US people obviously since he believes in not doing anything until consulting with Europe and the rest of the world; wanting us to appreciate that our air conditioned, comfortably heated homes and common ownership of personal transportation causes the rest of the world to be envious and resentful. But I understand that he really is running for president of the world. Apparently he sees the best and fastest way to achieve world equality is to lower the US standard versus what this country has been used to. I think if we elect him it will be an opportunity to see how that works out. I'm always fascinated by this idea that America is the only nation on earth with a decent standard of living. Merc, are you actually claiming that the world envies the US for it's cars and central heating? quote: ...the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul/17/internationalaidanddevelopment.usa Perhaps coming from a more varied background as he does, Obama will be able to communicate better than the incumbent and even engender a little genuine warmth here in Europe, something which won't hurt the US at all. But your poor international image is due largely to your policies and attitudes, not some international consensus of jealousy aimed at your supposed luxuries. And that's also the view of most Americans I meet in London, who've been here a while.

DarkSteven -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 6:36:43 AM)
Right now, the Democratic line is "We're not the people that inflicted the last seven years on you." The Bush legacy is horrnedous, and the fact that every GOP Congressman voted along with their insanity has made their entire party the Bush party. I agree that the Dems have lost their bearings, but the GOP needs some serious soul searching to figure out what it is. Is it the party of fiscal responsibility? Not any more. Is it the party of family values? Not with Foley and Craig, not to mention torture, and an ex-alky, ex-druggie President and a thrice-divorced, druggie Limbaugh.

kittinSol -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 6:38:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven ex-druggie President and a thrice-divorced, druggie Limbaugh. Don't forget Cindy 'Script' McCain: junkies, the lot of them [:D] .

MissSCD -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 6:47:10 AM)
Let's just bash all of the Democrats Why is it that when they are in office, I usually work their full term? Since GWB has been President, I have been laid off four times. How is that for liking republicans? *We need change now. Now.* You want to put someone who is too old to be President in the White House to straighen out this mess Bush put us in? To you I say, screw the Republicans. I cannot stand GWB. I voted for the moron once. *He cannot even say Americans correctly.* *I am voting for Obama. I have made up my mind.* *Clinton may have started Nafta; however, GWB, started a war with no end.* *Regards, MissSCD* quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 The Democratic Party of today is not The Democratic Party of 1960 or The Democratic Party of my parents. The Democratic Party of today has morphed from being the "Party of the Workingman" to being a party of leftists. My father was a Boston Firefighter and my mother was a telephone operator, both in Unions. If they were alive today they wouldn't even recognise the Democratic Party much less vote for any of them. Barak Obama says he wants to "do something" about "Genocides in Africa." I didn't realise that stopping "genocides" on foreign continents was part of the Democratic platform. Also, he says he wants to give "amnesty" to illegal aliens. Sure, that'll help the "working man" in this country pushing their wages down even further much less ignoring the fact that those people snuck into our country in the first place. Sure, go against the wishes of more than 90% of the American People on that issue and expect to win! lol Where do the Democrats stand on getting us out of "NAFTA" after 13 years of dismal job losses? The "NAFTA" that was signed into law by Clinton, another Democrat. When Democrats get into bed with big business like they have with "NAFTA" they're certainly not on the side of the workingman in this country! And Obama said that he would continue "outsourcing" of "some" jobs! Also, Obama wants to "double foreign aid!" That'll certainly make all the people displaced by Katrina feel all warm and fuzzy I'm sure! Barak Obama is not a Democrat he's a Leftist. Just look at his voting record. He's the most leftist senator in the whole senate. Even more leftist than booze addled Ted Kennedy The Democrats are making the same mistake they always make. They pick the most leftist candidate they can find and when they lose it's, "waaaaaa, someone stole the election!" You'd think they'd learn by now. Obama couldn't carry many large states that Hillary took in the primaries but the "Press" say he and McCain are "neck and neck." From what I see out here many people don't like either of the two candidates but there'll be many people gritting their teeth as they pull the lever for McCain. (Just for the record, I won't be voting for either. I don't like Democrats or Republicans) How did the Democratic Party arrive here? And where are they? What do they even stand for anymore? Does anyone know the answer to that question? It's funny, Hillary Clinton threw her "support" behind Obama the other week but we haven't seen her out campaigning for him have we? I don't think Obama will even take Massachusetts, there's a hell of a lot of Hillary supporters up there and many of them simply won't vote for Obama. I think that this election is going to be a "slaughter". American voters are simply not "Leftists." We care about this country, not "stopping genocides in Africa." The Clintons had it right, "it's the economy stupid." I don't know what the Democrats even stand for anymore. They ceased being "The Workingman's Party" long, long ago. Does anyone in here know what the Democrats "stand for" anymore?

Aynne -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 7:33:03 AM)
Oh kittin don't forget when she couldn't get the scrip, she stole them. Ah....republican family values. Maybe she and Rush should exchange dealer numbers? quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven ex-druggie President and a thrice-divorced, druggie Limbaugh. Don't forget Cindy 'Script' McCain: junkies, the lot of them [:D] .

Mercnbeth -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 7:52:14 AM)
quote: I'm always fascinated by this idea that America is the only nation on earth with a decent standard of living. Merc, are you actually claiming that the world envies the US for it's cars and central heating? No RL, Senator Obama does. His quote: 'We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK'... quote: Perhaps coming from a more varied background as he does, Obama will be able to communicate better than the incumbent and even engender a little genuine warmth here in Europe, something which won't hurt the US at all. As I pointed out he is a globalist and identifies with the social programs of Europe. Why shouldn't that endear him to them? He wants to set up the same cradle to grave government. Another point of your post, and many others here, is worthy of a comment. I think the most telling aspect of the Democrats and their support of Senator Obama is, like you, the best think they can say to support him is that he is not President Bush. It would be as if a positive aspect of Bob Dole would be to say; "At least he didn't get a blow job in the Oval Office." However, in the case of Senator Obama comparison is being used as a distraction to avoid his obvious lack of political accomplishment and experience.

popeye1250 -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 11:04:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressNew Heeheehee! The half-black son of a single mother is the elitest, while Cindy McCain says things like "In Arizona, the only way to get around is by small private plane." McCain is worth 45 million dollars and was literally eating cake with Bush during Katrina, but Obama is the elitest? Really? This is the sort of argument I should stay out of, because there is clearly no room for logic or reason here. MistressNew, I wasn't aware that you had to be born "rich" to be an "Eliteist." Look at Rush Limbaugh! Obama didn't grow up "poor." He went to the best schools and went to Harvard! And, Cindy McCain isn't running for president. In the "Old Boys Club" called the Senate most of them are wealthy. Even Obama is a millionaire. And being the Editor of the Harvard Law Review puts him at the very top of Eliteists whether you like it or not his upbringing irrelevant. Oh sure, someone in the "hood" who didn't graduate from high school is really going to "relate" to that! If you belonged to a Union would you vote for Obama knowing that he cared more about illegal aliens who aren't even supposed to be in the U.S. than he cared about you? It is a federal felony to enter the U.S. other than through a legal port of entry. So Obama is saying that he cares more about foreign national criminals than he does about U.S. Citizens! He is going directly against the wishes of more than 90% of the American People on that issue and he thinks he's going to be elected? Talk about being an Eliteist! He uses Ted Kennedy's saying of, "we need to bring them out of the shadows." What the hell does that mean? They shouldn't even (be) "in the shadows" of the U.S. Enforcing our laws especially our immigration laws is not "optional" for any employee of the U.S. government! But, Democrats have always had an affinity for criminals for some reason. Like that guy who the late Norman Mailer helped spring out of prison and who promptly stabbed a waiter to death on the sidewalk outside a NYC restaurant a few decades ago. What do the Democrats have to offer the average Joe or Jill? We know they want higher taxes. We know they want Washington controlling local schools. We know they want "more programs." Obama has stated that he wants to "double foreign aid". Obama will get our Troops out of Iraq alright, and put them in Darfur and other places where they shouldn't be! Obama has stated that he believes in "outsourcing" more jobs! Besides having a National Healthcare Plan which I agree with Obama offers nothing for the average working person. And he'd include illegal aliens under that plan which the average working person would be forced to pay for. Hillary Clinton's plan was much better. The Democrats are all about "tax and spend" and keeping the people beholden to them with "entitlement" programs. I'm certainly not defending Republicans either! I'll start a thread on those bastards in a day or two! My point is that the Democrats have lost their way in the last 4-7 decades and they are now trying to be "all things to all people" and we all know how well that works! I grew up in an Irish/Catholic/Democratic/ Union/ family in Boston, Mass and Democrats today are an entirely different party than when I was growing up! They had workplace immigration raids and wouldn't stand for illegal aliens being in the country. And I doubt that Obama will even take Massachusetts in the general election in November. There's a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters in Massachusetts and they are pissed!

slvemike4u -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 11:41:20 AM)
Merc might Obama have been referencing the fact that we as a nation are gluttons,that our standard of living has consequences for the whole of humanity.Might he have meant that if America hopes to lead the effort against global warming we as a people might have to make some adjustments to our run away consumerism...is any of that possible..or is it necessary as you and others seem to do to take a snippet ,remove it from any context...point to it and say" AHA!! see I told you he's anti-American."..just my opinion

Mercnbeth -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 12:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Merc might Obama have been referencing the fact that we as a nation are gluttons,that our standard of living has consequences for the whole of humanity.Might he have meant that if America hopes to lead the effort against global warming we as a people might have to make some adjustments to our run away consumerism...is any of that possible..or is it necessary as you and others seem to do to take a snippet ,remove it from any context...point to it and say" AHA!! see I told you he's anti-American."..just my opinion You know what I'd like to know Mike? Why is it that just about every 'snippet' from his man have to be interpreted or spun for its 'real meaning'? Near as I can tell being for the US and US interests should be his priority. Yet, his comments point to European comparisons and seeking citizenship for criminal workers. Like capitalism, consumerism isn't a bad word. Without consumers there are no workers. Without capital invested for profits there are no businesses. Now if you want to bring in the religion of 'global warming'; I think that the affiliation of church and state should not be allowed. Even if that religion is associated with the god of world wide social engineering. If those agendas are in line with yours I can understand your position to accept them out of hand. Neither, in my opinion, serve the interest of the USA.

slvemike4u -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 12:30:01 PM)
And McCain is okay with snippets of his being taken out of context?if so let's revisit his saying we will stay in Iraq for a hundred Years...nothing wrong with consumerism,but when talking about finite supplies of a resource, run away consumerism is a problem...global-warming is not religion it is science..but till that is accepted this conversation ,as it pertains to run away consumerism ,is pointless is it not...

Mercnbeth -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 12:55:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u And McCain is okay with snippets of his being taken out of context?if so let's revisit his saying we will stay in Iraq for a hundred Years...nothing wrong with consumerism,but when talking about finite supplies of a resource, run away consumerism is a problem...global-warming is not religion it is science..but till that is accepted this conversation ,as it pertains to run away consumerism ,is pointless is it not... Yet another fine example of answering any point concerning Senator Obama with a comparison. Stipulated - Senator McCain has issues regarding context; however, I don't think he would be a President standing for the issues of this country, or me, either. Was there a point other than what came through that you agree with Senator Obama's globalist positions? It would be a hijack, but why isn't global warming a religion? Its science is similar. You have to accept on faith its dogma of humanity's primary cause and effect instead of the natural fluctuations of that big glowing ball of gas 93 Million miles away. Its predicting a future based on models that when applied to the past, don't support it. It even has a messiah, albeit not one who has taken a vow of poverty, in Al Gore. It must be faith based. Similar to many radical religions it also condemns as a heretic anyone pointing to those facts. For instance, what carbon emissions enabled the best grapes in Europe to be grown in Northern England once upon a time?

slvemike4u -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 1:18:22 PM)
Has I said this conversation is pointless.You accuse me of switching every Obama issue to a corresponding McCain issue,the only comparison I made was the one of context...I beleive in hearing what has been said in it's entirety...Let's take the McCain quote ,the hundred years one ...now you repeat that to the mother of a serviceman and she is aghast at the thought of it,it conjures up pictures of a Hundred year war...well look at the whole quote not the snippet and he is talking about having bases there...a little bit different no?..IMO still wrong ,but different.Now take the Obama quote and even has a snippet I can see what he is trying to say...we are after all citizens of the world are we not...you reject globalization...fine,but let me ask you something do we have a duty to not pollute the atmosphere the rest of those citizens live with.Are is your point of view"whatever is good for America and damm the rest of the world"...I am curious....

Mercnbeth -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 2:00:49 PM)
quote: let me ask you something do we have a duty to not pollute the atmosphere the rest of those citizens live with.Are is your point of view"whatever is good for America and damm the rest of the world"...I am curious.... My answer is irrelevant since I'm not on the ballot. This man is running for President of the US, therefor yes - what he is going to do for the US and on behalf of its citizens should take priority. Senator Obama has not done that either in the case of criminal workers or putting US interests ahead, or at least on equal terms, as Europe. His position is that we should consider their position before setting one of his own. The last time we had such a President was Jimmy Carter. Who excelled in telling US citizens what they couldn't do and how they should expect suffering that he could do nothing about. That there is a vacuum of leadership at the top is obvious. The 17% approval rating for Congress points to the fact that citizens of the US are fed up with failure and the glorification of it, by setting up more government programs for failures than they do for success. The most obvious example, is that people who paid their mortgages and bought houses they can afford get nothing. Don't pay your bills and go into foreclosure and Congress steps all over themselves to help you. Whether looking at it from the personal side or the Corporate side; it is time we start looking and wanting to reward success - US success at that. Lead with that, and as before, the world will follow. I don't want another President who starts his term telling what we can't do as a citizen or as a country. However if you promise failure and hardship going in, I guess nobody can say you failed when it happens. If that example of leadership excites you - the person to vote for is clear. I'm still looking and hoping for an alternative.

slvemike4u -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 2:07:52 PM)
Good luck on that Merc,but I don't think you will see to many social programs set up to "reward"success...sort of thought success was it's own reward...but than again I get confused when talking to you conservative types

popeye1250 -> RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? (7/17/2008 2:45:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Merc might Obama have been referencing the fact that we as a nation are gluttons,that our standard of living has consequences for the whole of humanity.Might he have meant that if America hopes to lead the effort against global warming we as a people might have to make some adjustments to our run away consumerism...is any of that possible..or is it necessary as you and others seem to do to take a snippet ,remove it from any context...point to it and say" AHA!! see I told you he's anti-American."..just my opinion Slvemike, you assume a lot. We use more resources than most other nations because we're smarter than most other nations. I couldn't care less about foreign countries. How is Zimbabwe's Space Program comming along? LOL, I'd love it if Obama came out and said he was going to lower everyone's standard of living! Whoever the next president is their obligation is to the U.S. not to foreign countries!

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