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RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 4:16:39 AM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

So you would wear an EMD device or let anyone you loved wear one?  And entrust complete strangers with the power of being shocked?  That is your choice to make.
 
Given how often airport security misses potential weapons in baggage and how often baggage goes missing why should passengers entrust the airlines with EMD devices?


Ok first of all - Airport Security has NOTHING to do with the airlines or flight crews. The security screening is done by the TSA and / or TSA Contractors affectionately called "rent a cops". Half the time when I have an encounter with the TSA it is all I can do not to break his head open just to prove there is absolutely nothing in there.  Seriously, the TSA is the biggest collection of retards you will find outside of the Special Olympics World Jamboree. I wont bore you with TSA stories, but suffice it to say they were once deeply concerned that, despite being bagded for the airport system and wearing a pilots uniform, I might hijack a flight using a plexiglass ruler (chart plotter). They didnt seem to grasp the concept that I dont need to hijack the aircraft at ruler point if I am already going to be flying it. Please dont compare the TSA and airline flight crews. Recently a Continental flight out of IAH was delayed for 45 minutes because one of the assholes detained the first officer.  

So now that we have established that the TSA is not the airlines. Many airline pilots are ex-military officers who have a four year college degree, a year of military flight training and depending on when they came in between 6 and 8 years of obligated active duty service. These men have been entrusted with MUCH more potent weapons than the button to a taser bracelet. Forgetting the fact that they flew armed fighters and attack aircraft, bombers with nucs aboard etc, they also flew with a 9mm pistol, a K-Bar knife, and several other "weapons" on their persons. After completing their military service - they go through an extensive interview process (it usually lasts 3 days) before a board of company pilots, they are given psychological tests, simulator checks, etc... IF selected they THEN start their training before being assigned to the line as a first officer. By the time someone is a Captain they have several years in with the company and have gone though countless checks, evaluations etc...  If not going military, much to the chagrin of the civilian flight schools which will lie to people and tell them otherwise, you have to pay roughly $25,000 - $30,000 for 250 hours of flight time after which you can get a shit job instructing for MAYBE $10 an hour until you can then get a slightly better gig as a freight dog flying cargo all night,. then you can do charters, and eventually move to corporate jets and a commuter airline etc... All the way along this road, until you have roughly 3000 hours in jets, you are working in a relatively small industry where everyone knows everyone and people talk... Scratch that, they gossip like old ladies!  When BrittneyLee tipped a Southwest captain three months later I heard about it from a Continental captain.  Thus, everyone knows whose a fuckup or a slacker or whos "defective" and that will come out in an airline interview. SOMEBODY on that interview board will know - "thats the guy who landed under minimums in minneapolis!" or "hey that little fucker is the one who ratted out the captain when he was at NetJets."... Its harder to become a captain for a major airline than it is to become a neurosurgeon.  

By comparison - your average cop - who carries a taser that has the exact same effect took a civil service test, went through the academy, and voila congrats officer get out there and do it to them before they do it to us.  If its a reserve cop they got to go to the academy Thursday nights and alternate Saturdays. As I said, my volunteer fire dept has tasers on the trucks and ambulances. I had TWO hours of training on how and when to use it.

The fact is that a hell of a lot of "complete strangers" are entrusted with the power to shock you or one of your loved ones. The tasers are actually a good thing and they are less likely to hurt you than other methods.... One time on a paramedic call with the vol squad I caved some fucking drunks face in with a maglite when he grabbed a hold of me. If we had the tasers then, he would have sustained far less injury them he did by a paramedic, an EMT, and four firefighters beating him unconsious with flashlights and a medical oxygen D tank.(He would have sustained even less injury if he'd kept his fucking hands to himself and not tried to continue the bar fight he already lost with Fire/EMS.) Most of the people with access to tasers face far less screening than airline crews.

The flight crew already has the capability to injure or kill you in other ways. If they are unable to retain operational authority over the aircraft a fighter pilot will be scrambled to blow them from the sky before it can be flown into anything. So, whats better that your loved one POTENTIALLY be shocked with a non lethal device controlled by a carefully screened person OR that the aircraft they are in be blown to bits at 35,000 feet with no survivors? Tasers are unpleasant but I would rather have an taser on my wrist than a Sidewinder up my ass. You dont wake up from an AIM-9's to the engine...  

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 11:11:34 AM   
Vendaval


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Yes, the airport security and the flight crew are hired and trained by separate companies.  The luggage problems can be attributed to both however.
 
Are you saying that all passengers whether on commercial, private or military aircraft should wear EMD devices?  Is that the only way to prevent a missle from blowing up an aircraft?  Is a taser necessary for police officers and private security?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 3:44:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Well as you know I am down on tech --

One can not know that this will work flawlessly. 

"they" can take their planes and stick them up their hangar.

Each day I trust technology less and less.  





(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 4:47:50 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I don't want the government having power over me like that.  I don't trust them, and it's the responsibility of every American citizen to keep the governement from overstepping their boundaries.  Conformity and giving up liberty for safety are not part of American culture, and it should never be allowed to become that way. 


I agree with your first two sentences. But I think it is pretty clear that our culture has willingly been giving up liberty, freedom and autonomy for generations, most rapidly in the past few years.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 4:58:31 PM   
dcnovice


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<fast reply>

The really irksome thing is that American plans to charge $25 for the bracelet.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to UncleNasty)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 5:42:19 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
~FR~

The first thought that crossed my mind was wondering what it would do to someone like my dad who has a pacemaker.

More Nanny laws.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 6:40:35 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
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I had similar thoughts about my mum who had a bypass and also has emphesyma.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 6:51:22 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Yes, the airport security and the flight crew are hired and trained by separate companies.  The luggage problems can be attributed to both however.
 
Are you saying that all passengers whether on commercial, private or military aircraft should wear EMD devices?  Is that the only way to prevent a missle from blowing up an aircraft?  Is a taser necessary for police officers and private security?


I would say no to military and private planes. The people aboard a military aircraft are military, so they are obviously not terrorists. Most private planes arent capable of doing much damage to anything. You could have flown Cessnas into the WTC all day long with no signifigant damage and again the people on board are "controlled access". Ie - if I take BrittneyLee for a ride in a Cessna 170 I KNOW she isnt al queada. Ditto for corporate aircraft - not much likelyhood that a VP at shell is a terrorist. But I think it is a FANTASTIC idea for airliners or charter aircraft where you dont know / control the passengers. It should be madatory for all flights involving rock stars LOL. (The company I worked for flying LearJets had "The Beastie Boys" on a charter flight and they did $42,000 damage to the interior of the aircraft! LOL)

Are tasers necessary for police or private security? I would say yes. Emphatically yes! Someone is much better off being tasered than beaten into custody or shot. I told you about the idiot drunk who grabbed ahold of me during an EMS call. He would have been injured far less than our having to pummel him into docility. Countless police shootings have been avoided by deploying non lethal devices.... Id give them to teachers too... In New York state a teacher is 3X more likely to be assaulted on the job than a corrections officer...

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/18/2008 10:08:22 PM   
Vendaval


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Joined: 1/15/2005
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As a frequent paying passenger on commerical aircraft who has no arrests or altercations with police I object to the plan of treating aircraft passengers as potential criminals and less than household pets.  If even the Human Society of the United States see no reason to use EMD devices on animals then using them on humans is even more odious.



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Potential Electronic ID Bracelet for air travelers - 7/19/2008 6:24:03 AM   
ReginaCaeli


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/30/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Amtrak just keeps looking better and better.

Amtrak is, as of the last time I used them, the absofuckinlutely only way to fly (to steal from American's old slogan). Cheap fare, huge seats, great leg room, and it's possible to acquire food and beverage at will (rather than stalking the wily and elusive drinks cart). Bathrooms have often been smeggy, but some people find that to be a feature, rather than a bug.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 30
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