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tsatske -> RE: Internal Enslavement (7/23/2008 8:41:20 PM)
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quote:
The one thing most of you that are supporting this are missing is this: According to the definitions of the site, if a owner were to become abusive, or was to stop fulfilling the slaves needs, the slave would STILL be unable to leave on their own. This is not my definition or interpretation, it is what the site says. It says (speaking of the slaves bond to her master) "she can no longer break it herself", it does not say "she can no longer break it herself, so long as she isn't abused and her needs are fulfilled." That is where I have a problem. In my not so humble opinion, any time a person can't leave an abusive relationship there is a serious problem. If a master/owner purposefully creates a situation where their slaves dependence on them is so high that the slave is unable to leave or to consider leaving as an option, even if the master becomes abusive or stops fulfilling the slaves needs, then I believe the owner is acting in an immoral way, as I see that kind of dependence as being destructive to the slave. As to a whether the slave wants it or not, a person who has self-destructive desires needs treatment, not encouragement.
I'm hardly breaking any news to anyone here that regularly reads my very verbose posts, I'm pretty out of the closet, so, I'll tell you a few things about myself.
I am a mentally ill person. I have a fine theripist. He is aware of my relationship. He is also aware that my symptoms are under VERY good control, thanks to the parameters of my relationship. So, I have treatment, and the treatment approves.
There are a LOT of people in this great nation who very firmly believe that if you hit your wife, tie her up, ect, ect - regardless of rather she wants it or not - that is just wrong, and immoral.
On to the most important objection you make:
quote:
The one thing most of you that are supporting this are missing is this: According to the definitions of the site, if a owner were to become abusive, or was to stop fulfilling the slaves needs, the slave would STILL be unable to leave on their own. This is not my definition or interpretation, it is what the site says. It says (speaking of the slaves bond to her master) "she can no longer break it herself", it does not say "she can no longer break it herself, so long as she isn't abused and her needs are fulfilled."
Here is what I said that you seem not to have understood: The description above is the description of perfection, what many IE slaves hang on the wall of their mind and aim for. It is not what is managed. Some people may get close, but that takes a LONG time and a lot of work. They are consenting - not just on day one, but for several years as they do, over and over, what they think they must do to create that kind of bond.
these relationships do still come apart - just like good conservative christian marrages sometimes come apart, for all their assurance that they will never do so. I am not making things up, by the way - read the website. It talks about an attempt to 'create' that situation which you are quoting.
creating that situation does not take away consent. It simply means I have consented to something that you would not. I really am entitled to do that. Would I stay if He no longer met my needs? Yes. Would I stay if He no longer actively Mastered me? This is the wording used recently when that very question was discussed on the mailing list for TPE/IE slaves that I belong to. The general concensus answer was (although I think for me, the answer is simply, yes, I would), most of the slaves felt that, the longer they went without the interaction of being 'Actively Mastered', the more the I.E. would slip, until, finally, they wanted to leave, and, then, finally, they could, and, until, at last, they couldn't NOT leave. Just like the rest of the world - only maybe it takes a little longer.
Someone said about abused spouses, the vast majority of them do make the decision to stay - as was said, not blaming the victim, just a fact. A very small minority are actually held in true inescapable imprisonment or rational fear of death or death to loved ones. A few, but not many. Most have many impediments to leave - but they CAN leave. And many eventually do. What is the difference? For so long they don't - then finally they do. Why?
Becuase their resistance to leave was broken down by the reality of their life, though slowly. The same thing is going to happen to even a deeply I.E. slave, if their needs are completely unmet and their 'big red internal NO button' is tripped too hard, too many times. That is just the reality of the human mind and human condition.
I do have one friend online who's former Master gave her to another Master. If that Master had not been patient in her grieving the loss of a relationship, if he had not been a good match and a good Master, if He had not been willing to work with her in transfering her I.E. to Himself - let's face it, eventually, she would have overcome her feelings of devotion and her ethics about her slavery, and what she believed her slavery to mean - eventually, she would have left, though it would have taken a while.
My contract holds Master to the same standard. If he choses to release me, for any reason other than dishonorable behavoir on my part - he must release me TO someone. Is he likely to do so? No, He is not (although my friend sets a good example that it IS a possibility). But, I was unwilling to belong to someone who was unwilling to accept that responsbility.
I do not go around advocating that people choose an I.E. lifestyle. This either speaks to you so deeply that you can't choose anything else - or it does not. But most of the couples I know in this choice - actually, all the ones I know, though i have no doubt there are exceptions - are stable, very happy couples.
I have lived the other type of M/s relationship, and it does not fill my needs. I need more daily slavery in my life. and, on top of it, I have to say this - compared to former M/s relationships - i am betting I get laid more and beaten more than the vast majority of slaves on this site. My needs are the formost concern of my Masters, at all times, and I always know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I am his most valued possesion, and that is not just lip service. I feel it. As my profile says - I live the fairy tale, everyday; though Master does tell me that, by most peoples standards, it is a very skewered fairy tale. I'm okay with that. [sm=mrpuffy.gif]
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