RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (Full Version)

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Racquelle -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 12:51:22 PM)

quote:

"I wish you well"
I would so rather hear
"Piss off and die" At least you know that is a reaction you might hear in real life.
  But some of us actually DO wish others well - even others we disagree with, dislike, feel threatened by...

If we are all well, WE are ALL well.  I say it here and face to face, partly to keep my own mindset in check and to communicate something profound to the other person.  Despite my differences with others, I wish evil on no one and well-being for everyone.  Period.



Missokyst -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 1:00:48 PM)

I live by the edict, do no harm.
Even though I have had reason in my life to wish evil upon people, I chose to not dwell there.
However, I find some phrases to be platitudes, and that is one of them.  Kind of like "how are you?"  when people really have no interest in knowing that from strangers.  And rarely would I think of wishing everyone well, my life is not so encompassing.  I am more of a peace on earth type, rather than a I want joe and becky and kim, and steve, and boygeorge and tinytim, ect the best life ever.  I cant say I think that much about strangers to do so.
In forums though when I read the former phrase there are times it does not bother me.  It does bug me and will continue to do so when people say it (type) when it is clear they are angry.
It is the main reason I stay out of the Gor forums, even though some of their topics occasionally catch my eye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

quote:

"I wish you well"
I would so rather hear
"Piss off and die" At least you know that is a reaction you might hear in real life.
  But some of us actually DO wish others well - even others we disagree with, dislike, feel threatened by...

If we are all well, WE are ALL well.  I say it here and face to face, partly to keep my own mindset in check and to communicate something profound to the other person.  Despite my differences with others, I wish evil on no one and well-being for everyone.  Period.




julietsierra -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 1:09:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I actually do have an US vs Them bias.
I absolutely cringe when I read
"I wish you well"
Often said after a your way is wrong and mine is right post, and ending with
"I wish you well"
I would so rather hear
"Piss off and die"  At least you know that is a reaction you might hear in real life.
LOL but other than that one phrase, I am cool with what others do, as long as they are not in my bed.
Kyst


Actually... I DO say "I wish you well" in real life.
I also say "piss off and die."
But... I can figure out pretty clearly when I want to say one over the other.
I don't make the mistake of saying "I wish you well" when I'd rather they just "piss off and die" and vice versa.

Just because it's not part of your vernacular doesn't mean it's not said in real life. Even if you do wish I'd just piss off and die for saying so.

juliet



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 1:16:00 PM)

mind sets change like the wind   constants are values  almostl ike a math matic formula  with a random element 
for example take someone whos had money all their life i mean millions everything done for them  then make them poor thow them out take way everything slowly see if they can survive    people change dramaticly when their world changes 
it is our core child infrastructure that makes us who we are



jade01 -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 1:34:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

 
Now for the Pop Quiz:

Question #1:  As an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do (TPE/BDSM or Gorean etc.), is it YOUR personal belief that there is a proverbial line in the sand drawn between the "Us" and the "THEM?"


At one time I did, it took a few years, before I started to see this differently. My difficulty was the differences in Dominance between all of them...was there a line in the sand as you say, or not?
Imho, there is not..this is just me though.



Question #2:  Do you as an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do, feel you have been discriminated against?  Persecuted? 


Not from those here, meaning within the lifestyle, except from one place.
Mostly the persecution, discrimination comes from the outside, the nilla world.
 
Call it a fantacy, as it probably is one, but I really wish there was a way to get others to know we are not harmful, cruel, ect, ect, ect as they so wish to portray on shows on TV and such...I am bothered personally by the bad rap...by here again, just me, and I am new here and to the lifestyle.

Sincerely
jade



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 1:39:21 PM)

not just the nilla but inside the lifestyle as well and in droves   old vs new  age  different kinks yep
battle lines gots to love them



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 2:20:25 PM)

HI Jade,

Welcome to the forums!  Thank you for taking the time to participate in my little pop quiz [:)] 



DomDolf -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 2:56:29 PM)

1. Yes
2. Yes - It actually happens. Sometimes with huge ramifications.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 3:09:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
Question #1:  As an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do (TPE/BDSM or Gorean etc.), is it YOUR personal belief that there is a proverbial line in the sand drawn between the "Us" and the "THEM?"

Only if it's drawn by someone who find me as an "offense them".

quote:

Question #2:  Do you as an individual practitioner of whateve it is you do, feel you have been discriminated against?  Persecuted?

Yes, but not directly. The person was going on about the 'kinky devil worhipers' down the block. I asked if they wanted to know some real facts about the lifestyle or if they were content with the misinformation they had. I was informed that it wasn't misinformation...so I kept my mouth shut. It wouldn't have done any good.

I also wonder if I didn't get a job because they googled my name and found my book, which is lifestyle related. I have absolutely no proof this happened, just a feeling...and I'm totally aware it might simply be my projection about it since I was highly qualified for the job.

Master Fire



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 3:31:34 PM)

the thing of it is i do not want to change soceity    i do not care   i do not want them all up in my business  and you never know about what  employers are doing  what lengths they will go to find someone for the right job  its a cut throat world    

I think you just do you thing and go what ever world  i am just going to have fun and live the life i was given lol  mean after all
media driven dumb ass inc is going to think what it wants yep



Shadow-tiger -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 3:36:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Question #1:  As an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do (TPE/BDSM or Gorean etc.), is it YOUR personal belief that there is a proverbial line in the sand drawn between the "Us" and the "THEM?"

Lines, spectrums, bright shiny colors... Metaphors and symbolism that people use to clarify and categorise that which is around them. Personally I think opinions often form based around the known and unknown. We put our interpretation on things we don't know the details of, and that leads to opinions which leads to the whole us vs them mentality. As far as I'm concerned it's just another dynamic, another facet of living.

quote:

Question #2:  Do you as an individual practitioner of whateve it is you do, feel you have been discriminated against?  Persecuted? 

This is one of those points where it's hard to be discriminated against if nobody knows. While I have observed friends, family and random strangers spout off about their opinions on various subjects (kink, religion, haircuts, anything and everything) I have never really felt persecuted. Even when people come out with some very strange interpretations of things, that's just how people are.



SurrenderForMe -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 3:42:00 PM)

quote:

Question #1: As an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do (TPE/BDSM or Gorean etc.), is it YOUR personal belief that there is a proverbial line in the sand drawn between the "Us" and the "THEM?"


No.  I am not flagrant in my interactions, mostly, so there is no reason anyone would have a comment.  It is like having sex in public.  I don't force intimate activities on the unsuspecting, mostly.

quote:

Question #2: Do you as an individual practitioner of whateve it is you do, feel you have been discriminated against? Persecuted?


Only from US.   US is made up of many individuals, some of whom have the one upsmanship mentality.  Those US, tend to like to play games with people to enhance their egos.  So those US can and do discriminate, if you bother to try to associate with US.




XaviersXian -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 4:12:13 PM)

greetings to all,

Question #1:  As an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do (TPE/BDSM or Gorean etc.), is it YOUR personal belief that there is a proverbial line in the sand drawn between the "Us" and the "THEM?"

I see "us" and "them" thinking most commonly between the Goreans and the BDSM practitioners.  To me, this is like comparing apples and kiwi fruit.  Each has its own way of doing things, so really, why bother wasting your time finding "common ground"?. 

Having been interested in both over the years, my take on this is that the Gorean ways are all about a philosophy and living your life in a particular way.  BDSM is more physical, and has lots of variations on the way you can live it.

Question #2:  Do you as an individual practitioner of whateve it is you do, feel you have been discriminated against?  Persecuted?

Oh goodness yes.  I was interested in Gorean beliefs long before I met my current Master, and I was often discriminated against by people who didn't truly understand the key components of my beliefs.  They saw "kajira" in a profile, and either assumed that I was a doormat, who could not think for herself, and allowed herself to be abused by anyone who identified as a dominant male or that I was living in some "fantasy world".

If they'd actually stopped judging, and had actually started asking me questions, and learning, they would have picked up a very different picture.

well wishes,



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 4:56:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: XaviersXian

greetings to all,
I see "us" and "them" thinking most commonly between the Goreans and the BDSM practitioners.  To me, this is like comparing apples and kiwi fruit.  Each has its own way of doing things, so really, why bother wasting your time finding "common ground"?. 
well wishes,


Hello XaviersXian,

I lived for about 2 years in a Gorean Poly household, though I never claimed to be Gorean, or fully comprehended that philosophy.  Which is probably why my Gorean friends affectionately refer to me as their tainted vanilla friend, and I typically refer to the Gorean Masters as those bunch of sexy misogynistic bastards.  Which of course is to say, I'm not really vanilla and Gorean men LOVE women, and we are all full of shit [:D]  What we did have in common, was a love of life and a fondness for each other.

Thank you for taking the time to share your perspectives and answer the questions. 



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 5:11:18 PM)

quote:

I also wonder if I didn't get a job because they googled my name and found my book, which is lifestyle related. I have absolutely no proof this happened, just a feeling...and I'm totally aware it might simply be my projection about it since I was highly qualified for the job.

Master Fire


Hello Master Fire Maam,
I had a similar experience where I listed one of my references as someone who is well known in "certain" circles as a Master, although not typically by his real name.  However, when the man I was interviewing with read his name I could tell he instantly recognized the name, and the interview was quickly over with.  I didn't get the job either.  Though I wonder if he was more worried about what I  might find out about HIM, than whether I was right for the job [;)] which of course I was.  Sometimes we do project, but if your instincts are generally reliable, I'd say you are probably more likely to be right, than not.

Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences.



stella41b -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 5:36:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Question #1: As an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do (TPE/BDSM or Gorean etc.), is it YOUR personal belief that there is a proverbial line in the sand drawn between the "Us" and the "THEM?"



No I don't see this. There's just people, every one of them individual. Humans. I try to discipline myself into not thinking in terms of 'us' and 'them' because that is when you start generalizing and and stereotyping people. I don't always succeed, and most of the mistakes I've made about other people come from these times I have failed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Question #2: Do you as an individual practitioner of whateve it is you do, feel you have been discriminated against? Persecuted?



It's very rare that I'm persecuted or dsicriminated against over what I do, as it tends to be more against who I am. But you know I never fitted in anyway with the general populace for one reason or another. I just accept that not liking me is just as valid as liking me. I know from my own experience that fame and popularity are immensely overrated. Therefore me being myself and spending time with those who accept me for me is far more important than worrying about all those people who don't like me.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 6:04:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
Question #1:  As an individual practitioner of whatever it is you do (TPE/BDSM or Gorean etc.), is it YOUR personal belief that there is a proverbial line in the sand drawn between the "Us" and the "THEM?"

Only by those who create one for themselves- and a heck of a lot do.  They like being cool, dark, nasty "ooh look how naughty we are and they can't even tell I'm wearing this vibrator!" and then are like "How can I stop being so cranky when I get home from work when I need to be submissive?"  They create their own lines and divisions and problems and then don't know how to reconcile.

But the lines don't actually exist at all
quote:


Question #2:  Do you as an individual practitioner of whateve it is you do, feel you have been discriminated against?  Persecuted? 

As MasterFireMaam said, from the vanilla public, only indirectly, but yes, regularly.

I've gotten far more direct discrimination from the kink world itself. 



Daddysredhead -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 6:11:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
Peoples, gotta luv em, cuz ya can't drag em behind your bumper. 


WD,  you are damn crazy!  I love it.  [:D]



DreamsOfSpider -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/20/2008 11:49:28 PM)

People love having an "us" and a "them." We're primed for it, I think.... "my tribe" and "not-my-tribe" used to matter, a lot.

So, sure. Lines in the sand aplenty. But only because people keep drawing them.



Ialdabaoth -> RE: "Us" vs "Them" Mindsets (7/21/2008 1:46:42 AM)

There is no us vs. them; there's only me vs. you.



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