RE: I really don't care

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TwoNYCDommes -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 6:48:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RumpusParable Me, I make the choices and decisions I want to make when I want to make them -and that includes the decisions to leave the details up to the sub. Sometimes I want something done just so. Sometimes I want something just done. That's exactly how I feel.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 7:45:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact. As a Dominant, do you really make such an investment in displaying your Dominance that you care about such trivial things? As a submissive, does it really matter to you if the Dom always picks the restaurant? Early in a relationship, while I am still teaching the other member about my tastes, yes it matters to me. Of course, I'm a more picky eater than some, I suppose -- there are a lot of places I can't or won't eat. Once they know my preferences, though, I really don't care. Like you, if I want something in particular, I say so. I live in a poly situation, with a couple grown kids and perhaps even -their- chosen mates, still at home, which can make for a substantial bias if there is a disagreement about foods. Sometimes, if everyone else wants something other than I do, I just ask for a separate stop (or even gasp go out myself to get my particular desire). On the other hand, even early in a relationship, there are a lot of things I don't care about. As long as the chores get done properly, I don't particularly care in what order they're done, or the particular method by which they're completed. In general, unless I specify a particular 'dress', I don't care if my servant is naked, tuxedo'd, in straps, or in a dress -- as long as when I ring for tea, I get a good tea service on clean dishes. I prefer servants who can think, and actually -want- servants I can have a doggone -conversation- with... which means having servants who have enough capacity to think that they can have their own damned opinions (some of which, from politics, to religion, to food, will certainly disagree with mine). When what I want is to not have to -think- about what we're having for dinner, I'd better have a servant who can prepare a decent meal (or fetch one) without input from me, because when what I want is 'brainspace', that is really what I -want-, and is every bit as important as when I want fish, or Indian, or a smoothie! Calla Firestorm

julietsierra -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 8:41:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Thanks to everyone for the replies. A lot of them were reflective of how I see these kind of things. When I saw this little thing in the other thread (implication of the person didn't have a preference to a restaurant so the person wasn't dominant) I really kind of just shook My head about how silly the whole thing was. As a dominant, if it were Me and I had a preference, I would have said so in the beginning. If I want Chinese food, it's simply stated, and we go. In My case, if we're here in town and My sub's driving, he even knows where My preferred place is. Giving the option means I've already been past the part where I've decided it doesn't matter to Me. Like I said in the original, I'm probably eating chicken wherever it is, so it's not that big of a deal. My sub already knows this about Me. Even if he didn't, I can usually find something I'll want on just about any menu. Well, he does know that Mexican usually isn't the best option. I'm allergic to onions. If I'm recalling the other thread, at least from my point of view, when I'm meeting someone for the first time, it's not so much that the choice of a restaurant is some sort of display of dominance as it is a display of decisiveness. It wasn't the place. It was him telling me we were meeting and then telling me where - not to prove anything, but just because he is that way. The fact that he began the entire process of meeting me with not one but two directives, however they were couched in pleasantries, cued me in to the kind of person I was meeting and has pretty much set the stage for the last 6 years of my life. From that directive, I discovered he's not a lover of pasta or other dishes like that. He'd prefer meat in some fashion on his plate. From there, we've explored different styles of foods and different restaurants I've heard of or been to that he hasn't and vice versa. But he's still the one who a) decides we're going out to eat b) decides where unless he's up for trying something new and c) with exceptions being made to get family members cared for, the time we go. lol. I used to laugh and say that at least I could choose what I wore, but realized that with a standing order of skirts unless we're "roughing it" and going fishing, etc, and the color being black, my choices were rather limited. It's not because he has to prove how domly he is. It's because he IS domly. This isn't him proving anything. It's him doing what he wants. I like that soooo much. juliet

LadyHibiscus -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 8:51:22 AM)
This is funny, because one of the only Tests of Skill I toss out at a potential submissive is asking HIM to choose where we will eat! Yes, there is more than one right answer. The WRONG answer is, "Whatever YOU want!" It's an amazingly useful technique for winnowing out the sheep from the stallions. [:D] The smart, proactive man is going to ask me what kinds of things I like to eat, and use that as an opportunity to find out about ME (and it's all about Me, right? [8D]). It's a hard test to fail, otherwise, since I have wide ranging food tastes, and am easy to please. (I have been very successful setting up the sheep with folks who like that kind of person, too! Because I am a Nice Auntie!)

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 8:56:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus This is funny, because one of the only Tests of Skill I toss out at a potential submissive is asking HIM to choose where we will eat! Yes, there is more than one right answer. The WRONG answer is, "Whatever YOU want!" It's an amazingly useful technique for winnowing out the sheep from the stallions. [:D] The smart, proactive man is going to ask me what kinds of things I like to eat, and use that as an opportunity to find out about ME (and it's all about Me, right? [8D]). It's a hard test to fail, otherwise, since I have wide ranging food tastes, and am easy to please. (I have been very successful setting up the sheep with folks who like that kind of person, too! Because I am a Nice Auntie!) Woo hoo... EXACTLY. I want to know that when I am tired and "thought out" from a day of trying to solve everyone else's problems, and I come home and say "I'm tired and hungry"... my servant will have the sense to ask "do you have a preference?", and if I don't, xhe'll be able to choose a restaurant that xhe'll know I like, OR fix a meal without me having to list everything I want or don't want on my plate.... hell... sometimes I'll even want to give hir the menu at the restaurant and have hir pick me something decent, my brain is just -that- tired... and if xhe wavers and comes back with "I don't know" or "whatever you want", that is NO help at -all-! Firestorm

julietsierra -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 8:56:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus This is funny, because one of the only Tests of Skill I toss out at a potential submissive is asking HIM to choose where we will eat! Yes, there is more than one right answer. The WRONG answer is, "Whatever YOU want!" It's an amazingly useful technique for winnowing out the sheep from the stallions. [:D] The smart, proactive man is going to ask me what kinds of things I like to eat, and use that as an opportunity to find out about ME (and it's all about Me, right? [8D]). It's a hard test to fail, otherwise, since I have wide ranging food tastes, and am easy to please. (I have been very successful setting up the sheep with folks who like that kind of person, too! Because I am a Nice Auntie!) Actually, if you think about it, we're doing the same things, and looking for the same reactions just on different sides of the D/s fence. I detest indecisiveness and all that. That's why I said it wasn't a demonstration of his domliness but of his decisiveness. If he'd ASKED me where I wanted to eat, I'd have told him. As it is, he only asked if the restaurant he preferred was near me. And when it was, informed me we were meeting there. And for anyone who doesn't know LadyHibiscus... she IS a nice Auntie!! juliet

LadyHibiscus -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 8:58:38 AM)
Yes, male subs oftend don't understand that they are supposed to be decisive! When they are allowed to make decisions. [8D]

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 9:15:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Yes, male subs oftend don't understand that they are supposed to be decisive! When they are allowed to make decisions. [8D] It's not just male submissive individuals... we have had both and Transgenders -- often simultaneously--and have learned that this tendency to not want to/be able to make decisions crosses gender lines. I think that it is endemic in our society. I have to wonder if it is an artifact of an educational system that is geared to churning out "good little citizens" who don't think too much, and don't complain too much. (I didn't get on well in school -- I asked all the wrong questions, and was rarely satisfied with 'textbook' answers -- so I got detention a lot for reading "unauthorized texts" during class time. LOL) I think that, in breaking the mold and coloring outside the lines, more people need to be less afraid to make a decision. Sure, sometimes you may be wrong... but sometimes, being wrong can be -fun-, and when it's not, you know better for the next time. Calla Firestorm

TreasureKY -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 9:37:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus ... The WRONG answer is, "Whatever YOU want!" It's an amazingly useful technique for winnowing out the sheep from the stallions. [:D] Really? And a dom who says he or she doesn't care and whatever the sub wants is really a sheep and not dominant? Isn't that how this thread got started?

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 9:40:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus ... The WRONG answer is, "Whatever YOU want!" It's an amazingly useful technique for winnowing out the sheep from the stallions. [:D] Really? And a dom who says he or she doesn't care and whatever the sub wants is really a sheep and not dominant? Isn't that how this thread got started? LOL And I'll reiterate... As a dominant, I get to choose when and where I want to be decisive... if I'm not decisive, it's because I choose to let (or require) someone else make that particular decision. My rule, my choice. CF

TreasureKY -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 10:17:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus ... The WRONG answer is, "Whatever YOU want!" It's an amazingly useful technique for winnowing out the sheep from the stallions. [:D] Really? And a dom who says he or she doesn't care and whatever the sub wants is really a sheep and not dominant? Isn't that how this thread got started? LOL And I'll reiterate... As a dominant, I get to choose when and where I want to be decisive... if I'm not decisive, it's because I choose to let (or require) someone else make that particular decision. My rule, my choice. Ahhh... I see. I forgot about the "I'm a dominant and I'm always right" card. [;)]

julietsierra -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 11:11:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus ... The WRONG answer is, "Whatever YOU want!" It's an amazingly useful technique for winnowing out the sheep from the stallions. [:D] Really? And a dom who says he or she doesn't care and whatever the sub wants is really a sheep and not dominant? Isn't that how this thread got started? LOL And I'll reiterate... As a dominant, I get to choose when and where I want to be decisive... if I'm not decisive, it's because I choose to let (or require) someone else make that particular decision. My rule, my choice. Ahhh... I see. I forgot about the "I'm a dominant and I'm always right" card. [;)] I'm not sure how deciding when you don't want to make a choice - if you're in the driver's seat is akin to professions of "I'm the dominant and I'm always right." Hell, I'm in the driver's seat in my house. And sometimes, I just REALLY don't want to make dinner. When I get asked "what's for dinner?" by my family members, I answer "whatever you want to make." and THEY have to decide for the night. I don't see how a dominant doing this is any different than me doing it for my family - and I'm definitely NOT a dominant juliet

skimpytacowoman -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 12:05:38 PM)
I visited someone who I was interested in a few years ago and he tried to micromanage everything. I won't go into boring detail because it was just plain rediculous but I ended realizing that micromanaging things is a way of showing insecurity. You have to control everything around you so that nothing goes wrong and upsets your delicate balance. Unstable people who are in denial or refuse to get treatment get on my nerves. Needless to say I left sooner that I had first intended to and enjoyed flopping down on the couch and pigging out on pringles as soon as I got home. So is it possible that younger/newbie people feel the need to micromanage to some point? I'm sure it is, but it only means they're insecure with their choices and that is not sexy.

camille65 -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 12:44:33 PM)
I read the OP on the other thread a bit differently. It read to me like she was trying in vain to get him to exert some sign of dominance from the guy. He kept asking for dining options but wouldn't make a decision, so she had to. I don't think it is the same thing as people already in a relationship deciding where to dine. For years I went through that whole 'Where do you want to go?' and every idea I offered wasn't quite right but he couldn't suggest what he really wanted.. because he didn't like to make decisions and I was plain tired of always having to make the choice which always ended up being 'not what I really wanted' his opinion. It is actually a pet peeve of mine. I'm most comfortable with R saying that we are going to place X, is that okay or do I have something else I really want? Then either I go with his idea or decides that my offer is where we go. No more tossing it back and forth. If someone I don't know well wants to go out then the conversation usually goes with him asking me if I want to go out. Then I say sure what are you in the mood for? Then he says his preference and I answer yes I'd love to go or no.. if it is someplace I don't like. It seems nothing like micro management to me, just basic communication style based on personality.

TreasureKY -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 2:35:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra I'm not sure how deciding when you don't want to make a choice - if you're in the driver's seat is akin to professions of "I'm the dominant and I'm always right." Simply deciding when you don't want to make a choice, if that is your prerogative, isn't. However, I consider statements along the lines of, "because I said so and I am the dominant," are. Not that there is anything particularly flawed with that premise... just that, to me, it feels like a weak excuse to bolster authority. Of course, I may simply be too sensitive to those dominants who cover their human frailties with proclamations similar to, "I let that happen because I wanted to", "I planned it that way", "I have my reasons that I don't have to explain to you", or "I'm the dominant and I make the rules." But honestly... how often do you see those who have the power to make up the rules, be wrong? Especially when they reserve the right not to announce those rules are beforehand? [;)]

Leatherist -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 3:01:20 PM)
I hate being expected to micromanage. It's the worst way possible to try and top me from the bottom-force me to treat you like an idiot child to prove my "Dominance".. Suggestions and the like are fine, surprises and new things don't upset me. And I can always say NO if I don't like it.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 3:03:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: skimpytacowoman I visited someone who I was interested in a few years ago and he tried to micromanage everything. I won't go into boring detail because it was just plain rediculous but I ended realizing that micromanaging things is a way of showing insecurity. You have to control everything around you so that nothing goes wrong and upsets your delicate balance. Unstable people who are in denial or refuse to get treatment get on my nerves. Needless to say I left sooner that I had first intended to and enjoyed flopping down on the couch and pigging out on pringles as soon as I got home. So is it possible that younger/newbie people feel the need to micromanage to some point? I'm sure it is, but it only means they're insecure with their choices and that is not sexy. Limited durations of micromanagement can be incredibly erotic, from both sides of the collar (yes, I've gotten the chance to experience both sides...) I think for some people, micromanagement might be the ideal way of living. For me, I am Chaos Embodied... the Essence of Eris... and while it might be fun for a little while, I know myself well enough to know that a consistent diet of it would choke me. I need room for flexibility, spontaneity, and, well... Chaos. I don't necessarily think it has anything to do with "insecurity" for most people... at least, not the kind of insecurity that is more often spoken in tones of scorn, as if one were saying "plastic" or "wimp". I think it creates an amazing structure where some things can bloom and flourish (just like tomatoes, love their 'cages', and tomato gardeners spend hours in tying up stems and forming fancy cages and trellises for their prize plants). Me -- I like weeds... herbs and plants that take over corners where they aren't expected -- like the bamboo behind our lot that the neighbors planted that keeps sending tendrils over to knock on our windows on stormy nights. Calla Firestorm Calla Firestorm

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 3:12:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Simply deciding when you don't want to make a choice, if that is your prerogative, isn't. However, I consider statements along the lines of, "because I said so and I am the dominant," are. Not that there is anything particularly flawed with that premise... just that, to me, it feels like a weak excuse to bolster authority. Of course, I may simply be too sensitive to those dominants who cover their human frailties with proclamations similar to, "I let that happen because I wanted to", "I planned it that way", "I have my reasons that I don't have to explain to you", or "I'm the dominant and I make the rules." But honestly... how often do you see those who have the power to make up the rules, be wrong? Especially when they reserve the right not to announce those rules are beforehand? [;)] I guess this touched a nerve. It goes back to that whole idea of someone else getting to decide whether the things that I say and do are "domly" or "right". Honestly, I like the prerogative of getting to say "I don't have to do that, because I'm in charge and I say so." It's one of the bennies of being in charge. At least in our household, there are equivalent bennies on the other side, like "I don't have to deal with -that- because it's the Boss's job!". I don't consider playing the "because I'm the Queen and I say so" card to be a flaw. I also don't hide that I have frailties, and I that I often expect my servants to clean up my messes. I'm very blatant about what I expect, and don't hide behind trite phrases or pseudodomination to hide my mistakes. I say ... "Aw hell... screwed up." I am willing to admit that I'm wrong. When it happens, it isn't like it's a first -- I've had lots of "wrong" in my life. It also won't be the last. When you're Queen of Chaos, you're going to make a wrong turn every now and then. If I -do- say "I -meant- to do that" it's so that we can laugh about it. Calla Firestorm

TreasureKY -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 4:02:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW I guess this touched a nerve. It goes back to that whole idea of someone else getting to decide whether the things that I say and do are "domly" or "right". I can definitely understand that, though it does really all boil down to compatibility. It's just something we have to face... when looking for and interacting with a partner, we're gonna get judged and the criteria by which we're judged is up to the person doing the judging. We can stamp our feet and insist that, "I am submissive" or "I am dominant" til we're blue in the face, but if the other person just doesn't see it, what good does it do? quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Honestly, I like the prerogative of getting to say "I don't have to do that, because I'm in charge and I say so." It's one of the bennies of being in charge. At least in our household, there are equivalent bennies on the other side, like "I don't have to deal with -that- because it's the Boss's job!". lol... I would imagine quite a few dominants would agree with you. But it's the ones who make arbitrary changes in the rules to suit their ego... to include ignoring previous promises and agreements... and who lack any consistency of application, that drive submissives up the wall. [;)]

Dari -> RE: I really don't care (7/24/2008 4:07:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact As a Dominant, do you really make such an investment in displaying your Dominance that you care about such trivial things? For me, if I'm so insecure in my dominance that it can be challenged by my sub choosing the restaurant when I ask him if he'd like something in particular, then I'll be putting my toys away for a while, and figuring out what has gone so wrong in my life. If I care what we eat, I make the decision. Feeling obligated to make decisions about things that don't matter is more a sign of weakness, to me.

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