RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:31:46 AM)

Sanity,I will reread the whole thread in it's entirety but off the top of my head I don't recall anyone, be it Ken or any of the other posters ,suggesting the President of The United Sates was barred by law from talking to the press



Sanity -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:42:43 AM)

Save yourself some time and just read this post.

Some slick salesman apparently sold DomKen a book and DomKen bought it and everything in it... and he seems to think that everyone else here has read it, and bought everything that's in it.

That doesn't mean that anyone broke any laws, it only means that DomKen bought a book somewhere... and somewhere, some slick salesman is just a little bit wealthier on this fine Sunday.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sanity,I will reread the whole thread in it's entirety but off the top of my head I don't recall anyone, be it Ken or any of the other posters ,suggesting the President of The United Sates was barred by law from talking to the press



DomKen -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:45:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That wasn't in the OP, those are new allegations, or at least there are more allegations in greater detail. Nevertheless, why don't you do us all a huge favor and cite for us and provide credible links us as to exactly which law it is that forbids presidents from talking to the press.

Why should I provide something I never claimed?

As to the actual law violated as described by the op and in the book despite your attempts to obfuscate matters:
Pub. L. No. 108-7, Div. J, Tit. VI, § 626, 117 Stat. 11, 470 (2003)



DomKen -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:47:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Save yourself some time and just read this post.

Some slick salesman apparently sold DomKen a book and DomKen bought it and everything in it... and he seems to think that everyone else here has read it, and bought everything that's in it.

That doesn't mean that anyone broke any laws, it only means that DomKen bought a book somewhere... and somewhere, some slick salesman is just a little bit wealthier on this fine Sunday.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sanity,I will reread the whole thread in it's entirety but off the top of my head I don't recall anyone, be it Ken or any of the other posters ,suggesting the President of The United Sates was barred by law from talking to the press


You're just flat out making shit up I see. Too bad this isn't the first time.



Sanity -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:48:38 AM)

Well then, what book were you referring to, Ken.

We can't read your mind.




Sanity -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:52:57 AM)

What's this. Anybody know?

quote:

Pub. L. No. 108-7, Div. J, Tit. VI, § 626, 117 Stat. 11, 470 (2003)


I googled it and it didn't return anything meaningful.



DomKen -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:53:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Well then, what book were you referring to, Ken.

We can't read your mind.

The book that is the subject of this thread.

What Happened by Scott McClellan. ISBN 978-158645566




DomKen -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:56:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What's this. Anybody know?

quote:

Pub. L. No. 108-7, Div. J, Tit. VI, § 626, 117 Stat. 11, 470 (2003)


I googled it and it didn't return anything meaningful.


It's a citation of part of the budget act of 2003. It forbids the executive branch from engaging in propoganda. The same rule is in every budget but the exact citation differs over time. This one was convenient since it was during McClellan's tenure and had been previously broken by the administration and according to the book it was one of the specific statutes violated.



dcnovice -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 11:58:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What's this. Anybody know?

quote:

Pub. L. No. 108-7, Div. J, Tit. VI, § 626, 117 Stat. 11, 470 (2003)


I googled it and it didn't return anything meaningful.



I think it's this:

SEC. 626. No part of any appropriation contained in this or any other Act shall be used for publicity or propaganda purposes within the United States not heretofore authorized by the Congress.

Edited in futile attempt to fix link.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:00:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What's this. Anybody know?

quote:

Pub. L. No. 108-7, Div. J, Tit. VI, § 626, 117 Stat. 11, 470 (2003)


I googled it and it didn't return anything meaningful.


http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ007.108

The specific text referenced is as follows:
quote:

Sec. 626. No part of any appropriation contained in this or any other Act shall be used for publicity or propaganda purposes within the United States not heretofore authorized by the Congress.



Sanity -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:01:16 PM)

You think we all have it memorized?

bipolerber never said he was talking about a book, and though I heard that McLellan was out to make a buck I never thought anyone in their right mind would actually pay good money for what amounts to more hate-fodder for the far-left.

It's all about making a buck, and McLellan seems to have pulled one over on them...



slvemike4u -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:04:48 PM)

Still didn't find anyone asserting that POTUS by law is barred from talking to the press...



Sanity -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:12:12 PM)


Okay, well, thanks to celticlord and dcnovice for the links - it looks like they're trying to call it 'propaganda'  if he does so.

What will they try next...  and when will they realize that everything they use against a Republican president will return to bite them on the ass if and when they get one of their own elected.

At what point are we finally Americans?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Still didn't find anyone asserting that POTUS by law is barred from talking to the press...



philosophy -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:16:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Okay, well, thanks to celticlord and dcnovice for the links - it looks like they're trying to call it 'propaganda'  if he does so.



....er...odd logic. You appear to be saying the existence of a law that regulates what the executive can do will inevitably be misused. The corrollary to this is that there can be no oversight of the executive. Surely that's just plain dangerous.



Sanity -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:23:03 PM)


Presidents have always had and have always used the bully pulpit, it's necessary for the execution of many of the duties that have historically been associated with the office. For the left to now try to claim that the president is breaking the law for talking with the media or for cooperating with the media is insane.


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....er...odd logic. You appear to be saying the existence of a law that regulates what the executive can do will inevitably be misused. The corrollary to this is that there can be no oversight of the executive. Surely that's just plain dangerous.



philosophy -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:30:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Presidents have always had and have always used the bully pulpit, it's necessary for the execution of many of the duties that have historically been associated with the office.


...possibly true, but also possibly true that it's the tactic of a certain sort of POTUS, the sort that can't build consensus. Confrontation for confrontations sake is not a virtue.

quote:

For the left to now try to claim that the president is breaking the law for talking with the media or for cooperating with the media is insane.


....if there is a reglation that says that a certain sort of engagement with media is illegal then it stands to reason that there are also legal communications with media. If a potential offence can be committed, then it further stands to reason that the POTUS's communications with the media ought to be over-watched in case they stray over the line. There will be, inevitably, near misses to the line.......and they, in all good conscience, have to be investigated. The POTUS may be exonerated, he/she may not.

You appear to be conflating any possible investigation with a witch-hunt.......



celticlord2112 -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:33:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Okay, well, thanks to celticlord and dcnovice for the links - it looks like they're trying to call it 'propaganda'  if he does so.



....er...odd logic. You appear to be saying the existence of a law that regulates what the executive can do will inevitably be misused. The corrollary to this is that there can be no oversight of the executive. Surely that's just plain dangerous.

Surely you don't mean to suggest that laws are never misused?  It is hardly an original notion that law--any law--will inevitably be misused.  History abounds with myriad laws that have been misused.

Regarding Congressional "oversight" of the Executive--what in their track record holds any comfort that they will not abuse and distort presumptively reasonable laws in order to subjugate the Executive?



celticlord2112 -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:39:27 PM)

quote:

There will be, inevitably, near misses to the line.......and they, in all good conscience, have to be investigated. The POTUS may be exonerated, he/she may not.

Wasn't that the reasoning Ken Starr used regarding Clinton?  Or rather, reasoning to that effect?

Juvenal said it best:  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Congressional oversight of the Executive is all well and good.....provided there is equally effective oversight of the Congress.



slvemike4u -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:41:34 PM)

Therfore do away with the oversight?



Sanity -> RE: Fox News is the Ministry of Information. (7/27/2008 12:41:43 PM)

The law that DomKen cited seems very broadly worded and can obviously be interpreted (by some) to mean that any communications from the executive branch not specifically authorized by Congress are illegal. For the Congress to attempt to hamstring presidential speech... which is what's being attempted here, by implication... for Congress to do that would be pure political hackery.

There certainly won't be an investigation much less prosecution because again, this whole argument seems pointless and insane.


quote:

Sec. 626. No part of any appropriation contained in this or any other Act shall be used for publicity or propaganda purposes within the United States not heretofore authorized by the Congress.



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