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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/27/2008 6:19:25 AM   
Raechard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
a sub who likes to break her family in gently to the fact that she has a master. "Daddy branded his name on my ass with only a microwave, and a cat food can!"


Only MasterFriskies continues to use that technique.

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/27/2008 7:02:29 AM   
lighthearted


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I do use "perverted", even tho how I feel isn't actually a textbook definition.  I don't attach any emotion to that...except for a bit of giddiness.  and glee.  and happy skippy smiling.

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 7:08:48 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Why is it we still use terms such as dark, evil, twisted, perverted in reference to our desires?  Is this our own fear of them, remains of past social programming, or something else altogther?

lovingpet


Because en.light.enment is far to bright a concept for most people?
Because some people thought they were going to a Star Wars convention?
 
Because 'Darcyandthe.blonde.'would be against trade descriptions?
 
the.dark.

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 7:48:02 AM   
RCdc


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This is Darcy

I personally have no problem with describing many of the things that I like, and like to do, as being 'dark'. I take a certain glee in watching, for instance, horror movies which involve all manner of unpleasant things happening to people, I love running around in games like Doom, and GTAIV, and Half Life 2 blowing the crap out of people and aliens with anthing from a shotgun to the legendary BFG.

I like masks, and thinks there's something kind of cool about dressing in leather and PVC, donning a featureless, emotionless mask and stalking the corridors and playpens of various dungeons and other places.

None of the above activities can really be described as being 'light' or 'fluffy' or even 'healthy' depending on your point of view, and so 'dark' they are, and that's just fine with me.

In fact, I liken my frame of mind to that of Dexter, as I too have a kind of 'dark passenger' who rides with me, and with whom I am very comfortable indeed (but before you call the Feds, there are no underwater charnel houses out there.......not yet, anyway  )

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:04:42 AM   
ownedgirlie


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~ fast reply ~

I see a lot of people interpreting "dark" as something self promoting and I don't get that at all.  Why must everything be viewed as a competition?  Bah!

I think some people call what we do as "dark" as a reflection of old religious stereotypes.  Things that are dark are not readily accepted by society, and sometimes even by ourselvses (used generically).  My Master and I had a conversation a long time ago in which he mentioned some of his "darker perversions" and I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying it to boast, rather he was saying it as a way to come to terms with himself.

Eh.  I just see it as a description.  I personally don't use it, but I have no qualms about anyone else using it.


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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 6:41:44 PM   
LordDarkPleasure


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While the many explanations given here are all accurate to a level or another, I think the reasons are even more simple

First many BDSM related fantasies are historically related to "Dark" things.  A slave was kept in a dungeon, play that involve or pretend to give pain can be related to the spanish inquisition , witch hunting or any moment people were tortured.  Those happened in a dungeon also.  Then, reasons are pretty obvious why dungeons are related to "dark" stuff.  then, some play where the Dom takes or pretends to take the control by force can hardly be done in a cheerful setting.  Again, the balance tips over to the darker mood.

Then there's marketing. 90% of stuff related to BDSM that is made on the internet is done in dungeon settings.  All that marketing is shown everywhere, and these people make a lot of effort to be seen by anyone into BDSM.  Now if you read BDSM litterature, things really aren't that dark simply because dark stuff is not what most people seek.  Dungeons however catch your eye, bring money, and perpetuate the "dark" views of BDSM.

Things aren't all like that though, here is an example of a photograph I really like who does glamour BDSM related pictures with a cheerful and light approach:

http://www.smculture.com/share_galleries.html

But I suppose its considered more art than porn, so I'm guessing its a lot less popular...

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 7:06:43 PM   
SurrenderForMe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Why is it we still use terms such as dark, evil, twisted, perverted in reference to our desires?  Is this our own fear of them, remains of past social programming, or something else altogther?

lovingpet


This reminds me of a post about how sm was not violence.  Yes it is.

In terms of logic and the average mentally healthy person, what we do is twisted or perverse.  I hit people.  In context I am satisfying a need for me and my partner.  If I went up to my mail man and hit him, it would be assault.  Am I violent, not particularly except from the societal point of view.

violent Aadjective
crimson, red, violent

characterized by violence or bloodshed; "writes of crimson deeds and barbaric days"- Andrea Parke; "fann'd by Conquest's crimson wing"- Thomas Gray; "convulsed with red rage"- Hudson Strode



fierce, tearing, vehement, violent, trigger-happy

marked by extreme intensity of emotions or convictions; inclined to react violently; fervid; "fierce loyalty"; "in a tearing rage"; "vehement dislike"; "violent passions"



violent, wild

(of colors or sounds) intensely vivid or loud; "a violent clash of colors"; "her dress was a violent red"; "a violent noise"; "wild colors"; "wild shouts"



violent

effected by force or injury rather than natural causes; "a violent death"



violent

acting with or marked by or resulting from great force or energy or emotional intensity; "a violent attack"; "a violent person"; "violent feelings"; "a violent rage"; "felt a violent dislike" violent Aadjective
crimson, red, violent

characterized by violence or bloodshed; "writes of crimson deeds and barbaric days"- Andrea Parke; "fann'd by Conquest's crimson wing"- Thomas Gray; "convulsed with red rage"- Hudson Strode



fierce, tearing, vehement, violent, trigger-happy

marked by extreme intensity of emotions or convictions; inclined to react violently; fervid; "fierce loyalty"; "in a tearing rage"; "vehement dislike"; "violent passions"



violent, wild

(of colors or sounds) intensely vivid or loud; "a violent clash of colors"; "her dress was a violent red"; "a violent noise"; "wild colors"; "wild shouts"



violent

effected by force or injury rather than natural causes; "a violent death"



violent

acting with or marked by or resulting from great force or energy or emotional intensity; "a violent attack"; "a violent person"; "violent feelings"; "a violent rage"; "felt a violent dislike"






I cut someone, in context it is satisfying and sexually arousing.  That does not fit with the average persons activities in arousing themselves and their partner. 

I cut off someones breath.  That is edge play.  I could damage or kill them.  Doing it to someone else in terms of your average person, would be attempted murder and evil.  In context it is satisfying and sexually arousing.  Am I evil, not particularly except in the societal point of view.

evil Anoun
evil, immorality, wickedness, iniquity

morally objectionable behavior

Category Tree:act; human action; human activityactivitywrongdoing; wrongful conduct; misconduct; actus reustransgression; evildoingevil, immorality, wickedness, iniquitysexual immoralityirreverence; violationfoul playdeviltry; devilry
evil, evilness

the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice; "attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world"

Category Tree:abstractionattributequalityimmoralityevil, evilnessfrailty; viceerror; wrongdoingperversityvillainy; villainousnessreprehensibilitynefariousness; wickedness; vilenessworstmaleficence; mischief; balefulnessmalignity; malignancy; malignancemalevolence; malevolency; malice
evil

that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune; "the evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones"- Shakespeare

Category Tree:abstractionattributequalitybad; badnessevilFour HorsemenBadjective
malefic, malevolent, malign, evil

having or exerting a malignant influence; "malevolent stars"; "a malefic force"



evil, harmful, injurious

tending to cause great harm



evil, wicked

morally bad or wrong; "evil purposes"; "an evil influence"; "evil deeds"



depraved, evil, vicious

having the nature of vice



I am also perverse and twisted.

djective
depraved, immoral, perverse, perverted, reprobate

marked by immorality; deviating from what is considered right or proper or good; "depraved criminals"; "a perverted sense of loyalty"; "the reprobate conduct of a gambling aristocrat"



contrary, obstinate, perverse, wayward

resistant to guidance or discipline; "Mary Mary quite contrary"; "an obstinate child with a violent temper"; "a perverse mood"; "wayward behavior"



perverse

marked by a disposition to oppose and contradict; "took perverse satisfaction in foiling her plans"http://www.wordreference.com/definition/perverse

1 a: turned away from what is right or good : corrupt b: improper, incorrect c: contrary to the evidence or the direction of the judge on a point of law <perverse verdict>2 a: obstinate in opposing what is right, reasonable, or accepted : wrongheaded b: arising from or indicative of stubbornness or obstinacy3: marked by peevishness or petulance : cranky4: marked by perversion : perverted
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=perverse


adjectivedistorted, misrepresented, perverted, twisted


having an intended meaning altered or misrepresented; "many of the facts seemed twisted out of any semblance to reality"; "a perverted translation of the poem"

contorted, distorted, twisted


strained or wrenched out of normal shape; "old trees with contorted branches"; "scorched and distorted fragments of steel"; "trapped under twisted steel girders"

twined, twisted


wound or wrapped around something; "hair twined around her fingers"; "bulky with twisted stitches around the edges"

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/twisted


Some day, kinky people may be understood as a sub sect of society, but it will always be separate in its goals and view point when you get down to specifics.  I don't agree with trying to justify and deny reality.  

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:15:22 PM   
LPslittleclip


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some of it comes from the church and their narrow view of the world. this being those things allowed by the church as good or white and pure and all else as bad or dark. in the churches view all that is not accepted by the leadership is evil and bad. most who view new or different things pigeonhole them as good/bad etc. this seems to be ingrained into the society.

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:26:48 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
Why is it we still use terms such as dark, evil, twisted, perverted in reference to our desires?  Is this our own fear of them, remains of past social programming, or something else altogther?

lovingpet

Aren't you dark, evil, twisted, perverted?

I am... at least to some degree.  I mean, this following clip is just the nice stuff that is supposed tomake me look attractive and fluffy yet I get told it is dark and pervereted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Extreme BDSM
I am often asked what “tourist beware” in my profile means.  It simply means that some consider me an "edge player".  I have enjoyed experience with a variety of extreme BDSM gear like cages, crosses, cats, chains, benches, suspension pulleys, needles, sharp knives, surgical staples, surgical sutures, catheters, dilators, sounds, gasmasks, nitrous oxide & trilene sleeping gas, OB-GYN tables with restraints and other medical supplies.  I enjoy the mental aspects BDSM a great deal and 'playing' with fear can be as important or more important than the gear.  Some of the following examples include strong mental and emotional aspects. 

-Extreme Medical play & Rape- I owned an OB-GYN facility (and managed several others).  My medical play often occurred in real clinics, with real medical equipment and real drugs like nitrous oxide (laughing gas) and Trilene gas (sleeping gas),  The exam table bondage and torture "play" included things like ultrasound insertion pictures, surgical incisions and sutures, sleeping gas rape/group rape, forced bisexuality, medical sounds & dilators, nitrous enhanced orgasms and just about anything and everything else you can imagine.  

-Extreme Watersports- Oral, vaginal and anal urine play.  I won't just piss on you, I will piss in you too.  I have the ability to urinate while erect and can give you a hot piss enema or vaginal douche.  Deepthroating you and pissing into your stomach while you gag is considered extreme by some people.  Of course I also enjoy pissing in your mouth (not throat) while you gargle.

-Public Bondage & Rape- I like hiding a bound and gagged nude slave in a public building's utility closet where there is risk of her being discovered.  Imagine laying there bound in the closet, hearing people pass by and any one of them could be your undoing.  Then a set of footsteps approaches and the door opens.  It isn't Master...  the man closes the door and demands you suck his cock in return for his silence.  You refuse because Master has to give you permission for such things.  You are naked, gagged and bound helplessly when he rolls you over and starts to rape you.  Then the door opens again and Master walks is saying, "well, if you won't suck his cock, then you'll have to suck my mine".  ...you had no way to know that it was Master's friend, it was a set up to see if you would disobey and they had been guarding the door and you were safe all that time.  Of course I also enjoy the less risky public dungeon and typical BDSM party bondage activities too.

-Asphyxiation- I have a lot of experience with gasmasks and other milder forms of choking.  I like blocking my slave’s air flow and mixing asphyxiation with her climax because the orgasm is so intense.  I also like the control of having my slave’s life in one hand and her sex in my other hand.  To feel her sex throbbing against one hand and feel her lungs heaving against the other is such a powerful feeling [slave's bath]… I think it is as intense for me as it is for her.  I want to build a water tank so bad I can taste it. 

-Public Humiliation-  Humiliation is so objective.  It is hard to humiliate a slave that wants to treated like a slave now isn’t it?  To a vanilla, wearing a collar like an animal is humiliating.  To others, they don’t get aroused until you call them a slut and tug their leash.  Often my slaves wear see through lace tops while in public.  Strangers frequently make silly or flirtatious sexual comments.  The stranger is told that permission is required to "fuck Master's property" and we “call their bluff”.  Sometimes they do ask and permission is given.  Sex in public at Master’s command is considered humiliating by some and with risk of legal intervention it is considered edgy by others. 

-Objectification- Human furniture, a birthday cake to be decorated by party goers, a footstool for Master or friends, a sex object to be commanded, a urinal or a dinner table decoration.  Being well known in Detroit had its' perks, including a few restaurants that would serve me after hours or in private rooms.  You never know when a romantic candlelight dinner can involve the hot candle wax and nudity too.  Nude slave(s) make wonderful table decorations and watching them masturbate or have sex is nice diner entertainment.  Sometimes the waiters or waitresses were so taken in by the passion of it all, they asked permission to join in the festivities.  Imagine lying naked on the table, Master’s dinner plate between your legs and he is casually dipping his hot food in your pussy juice while your head hangs off the table so you can lick the waiter or waitress. 

-Ponyplay- My experience with ponyplay does not yet include carriages. Compared to those who have carriage ponies, my experience is limited.  However, compared to the average BDSM role playing outfit, full sets of pony gear is quite expensive and considered extreme by some. 

-Petplay & Caging- There were children in our life so her role as a pet started after the kids went to bed at 8pm.  However, sleeping in a cage for 6 months, being kept nude except a pet collar, chained, fed Puppy chow once a daily and watered is an extreme routine by many standards.

-Bloodsports- Besides the mock surgeries at the clinic, the needles, sutures, scalpels, butterfly bandages and IV bags made their way to public parties and the bedroom as well.

-Cages & Chains-  To some, being caged or padlocked and chained is extreme.  To me it is a nightly routine and when a slave gives me her freedom she is proving that I own her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Extreme Kink
-Forced or Coerced Bisexuality-
  Long ago when it wasn’t life threatening to sport fuck strangers, I had an OB-GYN exam table in my house and it was retrofitted with shackles.  My slave or I would hunt up a heterosexual girl, take her home and get her in bed or on the exam table.  I would lick her while my slave blindfolded her.  Once she was blinded, we would switch partners so she didn't know a girl was between her legs.  When she reached orgasm, I would rip the blindfold off.  I haven’t practiced sport fucking like this in many years though, it seems too risky nowadays.  However, I am currently known for introducing more than one heterosexual girl in the community to bisexuality with the help of my slave(s) talented mouths and fingers.

-Bestiality-  K9 ...even a reptile.  Once I dragged the ridges of a snake's belly over my slave's clit so the vibrations made her cum.  I look forward to the day I have the opportunity for pony play.    

-Group Sex-  I share.  I’m not a swinger at my core but I have a streak of hedonism and play well with others.  Sharing usually involves some matter of the heart like giving my slave to my brother or close friend.  However, in the right mood, there has been more than one party with a “puppy pile” of nude bodies in Master’s bedroom.  Also as an act of sexual self confidence, I have taught slaves how to make 2 men or women cum at the same. 

-Public Nudity- My slaves have a reputation of being the first one nude at a party to help liven it up. 

-Polyfidelity-  Having a slave in each hand and making them both cum at the same time...  the power and control of it ignites my passion.  Imagine laying next to your sister,  hearing her moans and knowing that she is feeling the same thing you are.  The sounds of pleasure, the feel of her kiss as you both reach a squirting climax in Master's hands.


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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:32:21 PM   
BlackKnight


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quote:

Aren't you dark, evil, twisted, perverted?


yes!

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Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"
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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:36:25 PM   
Leatherist


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Water tank. Take heavy welded wire fencing. Wrap it around itself twice in a four foot circle.  Keep the spaces at for by one inches or less this way. Wire the ends together with the sharp ends out.  Do the same with a four foot square for the base. Get some clear four mil plastic. Make it big enough to  fill the inside seamlessly. Tuck the ends over the top, duct tape them. Get a couple of garden houses,one to your water heater drain cock,the other to a fuacet with an adapter. Fill to your desired height and temperature-hypothermia will limit the time you have available to play in.

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:36:27 PM   
Kana


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I looked up perverse once in one of the sundry dictionaries I have strewn across the house.
A friend had called me perverted and I was protesting about not desiring intimacy with my bloood kin.
It was suggested that I may not be a smart as I think I am.
Definition number five was:
Perverted: Taking pleasure in other peoples pain.

Since then I have happily been a pervert.

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:47:32 PM   
Lordandmaster


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The problem with just looking things up is that dictionaries don't tell you enough about the history and usage of words.  The best ones try, but they can still only give you a skeleton.  The problem with the word "pervert" is that it comes from a nineteenth-century medical discourse that regarded our sorts of sexual desires as the symptoms of psychiatric disease.  Well, sorry, but I don't think tying women up and fucking them is sick.

It gets more complicated than that, too.  For example, just about everyone misuses the term "sadism."  According to the people who coined the term, a sadist is not merely someone who is sexually aroused by viewing or inflicting pain.  A sadist is someone who is sexually aroused by viewing or inflicting pain AND CANNOT BE AROUSED IN ANY OTHER WAY.  Most of you self-styled sadists don't fit that definition.  It means you NEVER get a boner unless you see some woman being tortured.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 7/29/2008 8:48:31 PM >

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:51:09 PM   
Leatherist


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I'm glad that I am more eclectic. I still get just as excited by building a great play toy with someone as in using it on them.


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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:55:50 PM   
MadRabbit


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It depends on the desire. I use it in more of a Jung's "Shadow" type of way to describe what part of me the desire orginates from. Cutting women while I fuck them and holding knives to their throats doesn't come from the "happy, fluffy, cute bunny" section of my soul.

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:57:36 PM   
dawntreader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Why is it we still use terms such as dark, evil, twisted, perverted in reference to our desires?  Is this our own fear of them, remains of past social programming, or something else altogther?

lovingpet


Because en.light.enment is far to bright a concept for most people?
Because some people thought they were going to a Star Wars convention?
 
Because 'Darcyandthe.blonde.'would be against trade descriptions?
 
the.dark.

 
 i love it!

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 8:57:57 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
Water tank. Take heavy welded wire fencing. Wrap it around itself twice in a four foot circle.  Keep the spaces at for by one inches or less this way. Wire the ends together with the sharp ends out.  Do the same with a four foot square for the base. Get some clear four mil plastic. Make it big enough to  fill the inside seamlessly. Tuck the ends over the top, duct tape them. Get a couple of garden houses,one to your water heater drain cock,the other to a fuacet with an adapter. Fill to your desired height and temperature-hypothermia will limit the time you have available to play in.

I want to thank you.  That is a nice improv tank... I think you get the sick bastard award for the day.  … that is really a nice idea.    

Here I was thinking all high brow and shit, plexiglass, external fill tanks pre heated by aquarium heater and etc…  dedicating another room to it… F*@K that.  I get strap locks, fence and bag, done…  just awesome.  

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/29/2008 9:02:52 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
Water tank. Take heavy welded wire fencing. Wrap it around itself twice in a four foot circle.  Keep the spaces at for by one inches or less this way. Wire the ends together with the sharp ends out.  Do the same with a four foot square for the base. Get some clear four mil plastic. Make it big enough to  fill the inside seamlessly. Tuck the ends over the top, duct tape them. Get a couple of garden houses,one to your water heater drain cock,the other to a fuacet with an adapter. Fill to your desired height and temperature-hypothermia will limit the time you have available to play in.

I want to thank you.  That is a nice improv tank... I think you get the sick bastard award for the day.  … that is really a nice idea.    

Here I was thinking all high brow and shit, plexiglass, external fill tanks pre heated by aquarium heater and etc…  dedicating another room to it… F*@K that.  I get strap locks, fence and bag, done…  just awesome.  


And when you are done with it, just open the hose taped to the bottom, pull the bag and roll it out into the yard corner. Tell the neighbors it's a compost bin, you just haven't gotten round to putting anything in it yet. ;)

By the by, it occured to me that if you slice an old garden hose up one side and lay it over the top of the bag and wire top-it makes a nice edging.  and you can use the left over bit to make her breathe through-while you have her submerged, tickling her feet that you have bound to the edge of the tank.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 7/29/2008 9:12:30 PM >


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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/30/2008 2:13:59 AM   
VioletAshes


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I don't think I have ever used those terms with regard to myself...

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RE: Why Is It Dark? - 7/30/2008 3:04:21 AM   
edgeofdavid


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Well it's not helpful that sadism, masochism, and a number of other "ism"s that most all of us on CM enjoy are still considered disorders known as paraphilias. Patientce, though, progress is being made, and observer bias is slowly being scratched out of textbooks. We have people like Dr. Charles Moser, and Dr. Katherine Wilson to thank for that. Not to mention those invovled in the community patient enough to explain to others what they don't understand... for years. Just my thoughts .

-david


< Message edited by edgeofdavid -- 7/30/2008 3:06:47 AM >

(in reply to VioletAshes)
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