RE: Burn remedies? (Full Version)

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apiercedkitty -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 7:31:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Does anyone know of anything that actually takes the pain out of a burn? I burned my hand pretty bad with  hot sugar and it's blistered and swollen. I'm using aloe with lidocaine and an ice pack but the pain is just unreal. It's making me nauseous and if I take the ice away for more than a second or two it's absolutely unbearable. The skin isn't broken.


Get it looked at ASAP as the most common complication of a burn that serious is infection. And anything that blisters is serious.
*edited to add... sometimes it helps to read the entire thread as i see you did go. Good luck on the healing.




apiercedkitty -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 7:40:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
And WTF to the people saying it's a full thickness/third degree burn?? What the hell are you thinking? Do you know what a full thickness burn is? I've seen them before... and you don't get them from a damn stove, you get them from molten metal being dumped on you, and anti-tank rockets exploding inside your humvee.  A full thickness burn goes through bones... a third degree goes through muscle and tissues. 

If you are going to google your medical advice, do it a little more thoroughly.


Actually... and this is straight out of my nursing Med-Surg textbook: "A full-thickness wound occurs with destruction of the entire epidermis and dermis, leaving no residual epidermal cells to repopulate... The full-thickness injury has a hard, dry, leather eschar (burn crust) that forms from coagulated particles of destroyed dermis."
"Deep full-thickness wounds extend beyond the skin into underlying fascia and tissues. These deep injuries damage muscle, bone, and tendons and leave them exposed."
Hate to nit pick but, if you're going to google YOUR medical advice, do it more thoroughly.




Lynnxz -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 8:41:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: apiercedkitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
And WTF to the people saying it's a full thickness/third degree burn?? What the hell are you thinking? Do you know what a full thickness burn is? I've seen them before... and you don't get them from a damn stove, you get them from molten metal being dumped on you, and anti-tank rockets exploding inside your humvee.  A full thickness burn goes through bones... a third degree goes through muscle and tissues. 

If you are going to google your medical advice, do it a little more thoroughly.


Actually... and this is straight out of my nursing Med-Surg textbook: "A full-thickness wound occurs with destruction of the entire epidermis and dermis, leaving no residual epidermal cells to repopulate... The full-thickness injury has a hard, dry, leather eschar (burn crust) that forms from coagulated particles of destroyed dermis."
"Deep full-thickness wounds extend beyond the skin into underlying fascia and tissues. These deep injuries damage muscle, bone, and tendons and leave them exposed."
Hate to nit pick but, if you're going to google YOUR medical advice, do it more thoroughly.


Kitty,  my knowledge didn't come from google, it came from working in the Army's best intensive care burn unit where, yes, I cared for people who's limbs had been burnt off.

If I google things, I let people know. Otherwise, I generally tend to know what I'm talking about.




apiercedkitty -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 8:54:18 AM)

oh... ok - so you're a doctor then? And you're implying the latest in nursing textbooks are wrong?




RedMagic1 -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 8:56:24 AM)

Does the Army use the term "full thickness" to mean "4th degree?"  Because apiercedkitty's book is equating it with 3rd degree.  4th degree is more like when you need orthopedic reconstruction.




Lynnxz -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 9:00:52 AM)

Full thickness was  damage to bones or yes, 4th. Once it hit the bone, I don't think we kept making up new degrees. :-/

Someone petted the kitty backwards today. MY whole point was, a blister on your hand is not a full thickness burn.




RedMagic1 -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 9:06:39 AM)

Yeah.  Thing is, apiercedkitty, burn classifications vary, depending on what treatment scenario you're in.  Any one book is not the bible.  I just checked Wikipedia and it alone goes up to 6 degrees.  I think what's going on here is that you are getting civilian training, and Lynn was getting combat training, so the terms were different, because different things needed to be treated.

Here's the wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn#Classification_by_degree

Edited to add: I just noticed, the same wikipedia article says a full-thickness burn can be either third or fourth degree.




apiercedkitty -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 9:12:06 AM)

Actually - i was just going to edit my previous point because it was way bitchier than it should have been - my apologies.
my point was that it would appear that you assumed the people were googling, when they might, in fact have been using "their knowledge." i don't recall anyone using the term "full-thickness"... only saying it was 3rd degree. Using "degrees" of burns is different than actually describing them. Again, out of the text, "The severity of a burn is determined by the extent of the body surface area involved and the depth of the burn. The degree of tissue damage is related to what agent caused the burn and to the temperature and duration of exposure to the heat source." Most lay people would have no idea the difference between full-thickness and deep full-thickness. Therefore, they go by degrees - and blisters are usually considered 3rd degree (in a layman's world). 
Again, my apologies for the tone of the previous post. 

*edited to add: rating with degrees tends to be archaeic at best... using terms to describe the amount of tissue involved, i.e. superficial, full-thickness, etc. is how the American Burn Association describes burns. After all, it's the deepness and amount of surface area that are important when treating burns.*




Lynnxz -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 9:20:26 AM)

The person in question probably no longer has a burn, so I kind of feel like an ass.

Also, I was never taught that blisters= 3rd.  O.o Sorry about that ;) I tend to get ruffled about burns- it's something that is special to me.

Red, quit being so damn sensible. <3




apiercedkitty -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 9:28:02 AM)

No - she's probably still healing... lol
We tend to be quite vocal about the things we know (and usually care about). Not necessarily a bad thing...
Ah... i perved Red's profile cuz i had to confirm... yup, a guy. Leave it to a guy to be all sensible when females are throwing insults back and forth... :)




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 10:33:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: apiercedkitty

Actually - i was just going to edit my previous point because it was way bitchier than it should have been - my apologies.
my point was that it would appear that you assumed the people were googling, when they might, in fact have been using "their knowledge." i don't recall anyone using the term "full-thickness"... only saying it was 3rd degree. Using "degrees" of burns is different than actually describing them. Again, out of the text, "The severity of a burn is determined by the extent of the body surface area involved and the depth of the burn. The degree of tissue damage is related to what agent caused the burn and to the temperature and duration of exposure to the heat source." Most lay people would have no idea the difference between full-thickness and deep full-thickness. Therefore, they go by degrees - and blisters are usually considered 3rd degree (in a layman's world). 
Again, my apologies for the tone of the previous post. 

*edited to add: rating with degrees tends to be archaeic at best... using terms to describe the amount of tissue involved, i.e. superficial, full-thickness, etc. is how the American Burn Association describes burns. After all, it's the deepness and amount of surface area that are important when treating burns.*


Something must have changed since my own medical training (paramedic/midwife)... and even since I took my last first-aid refresher, come to think of it (that was just last year). We were taught just a year ago that burns with redness but no blisters and only epidermal involvement were1st degree, burns with blisters and involvement into the dermis were 2nd degree, burns with or without blistering, with draining serum or forming eschar, with charring of epidermal/dermal tissue, affecting epidermis, dermis, subcutaneous/hypodermis, fascia, muscle, nerve tissue were 3rd degree, and that  burns through all layers of skin, fascia, muscle, nerve, with damage to underlying structure and/or organs were 4th degree. I remember being taught that the "layman's term" for blistering burns was 2nd degree, not 3rd, and that while 3rd degree burns might have some blistering on their outer edges, 3rd degree burns were much more likely to "weep" or be wet from draining serum than they were to be blistered. In my work, I mostly deal with burns from radiation treatments, but they are typically more like concentrated sunburns.

Kitty, are you a doc? I noticed you asked earlier whether another poster was a doc, so I'm curious about whether this might be taught differently in medical school than it is to allied health professionals (nurses, paramedics, PA's, and/or APNs). If you're not, just pass the question by -- it's just more of my curiosity showing.

Calla Firestorm




mistoferin -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 10:45:16 AM)

Wow...I didn't mean to cause such a stir. I just wanted a quick get me out of pain fix....lol.[:D]

As an update, I am doing really well. The areas that were 1st degree pretty much look normal already...a little pink. The area that was 2nd degree is healing really well and I don't think it will scar. There is a small area of what they said was 3rd degree....it's on the inside and underneath of my finger travelling down the length of it. It is covered by a ginormous blister that I am trying desperately not to pop. I'm hoping that if I can keep the blister intact long enough it will give the tissue underneath time to heal and will keep any scars to a minimum. Now that the pain is really at a minimum the biggest obstacle is remembering there is an injury there when I go to grab something. Thanks to all for all the advice.





apiercedkitty -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/29/2008 2:07:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Kitty, are you a doc? I noticed you asked earlier whether another poster was a doc, so I'm curious about whether this might be taught differently in medical school than it is to allied health professionals (nurses, paramedics, PA's, and/or APNs). If you're not, just pass the question by -- it's just more of my curiosity showing.

Calla Firestorm


No, actually... a nurse and i just graduated this spring - and we were taught burns in description. When i've dealt with burns in a medical setting (during my two years of hands-on clinical training), we never used "degree" of burn - it was always superficial, superficial partial-thickness, deep partial-thickness, full-thickness and deep full-thickness. The only time i ever heard a doc use "degree" to indicate the seriousness of the burn, it was to the patient as it's harder to describe using the ABA terminology. We were taught that most laymen equate 3rd degree with blisters. Most people would also call "weeping" burns 3rd degree for lack of another "degree." At least in my experience.




faithNZ -> RE: Burn remedies? (7/30/2008 1:09:03 AM)

Just found this and thought it was interesting.  Over here in New Zealand, we're taught to cool the burn (ok, pretty obvious) and then cover it with clingfilm (I believe it's called saran wrap over in USA) as first aid.  This is procedure that the main ambulance service here uses.  The idea is that the clingfilm keeps the air from the burn, thereby relieving the pain and also reduces the infection.  Plus it's easy to see the burnt area, and comes off reasonably easily.




sweetpea29 -> RE: Burn remedies? (12/7/2008 9:59:21 PM)

Just a heads up.  Silvadine may be magical, but make sure it's used only for those dr gives it to.  If you are allergic to Sulfa, it can be awful. 




freyjasdottir -> RE: Burn remedies? (12/9/2008 9:19:32 AM)

Glad you're feeling better, but for those in the future who get burnt and stumble across the thread, if your burn is bad enough that you will likely need a doctor don't apply anything other than cold to it.  If you end up in the hospital they will just have to scrap it off and it will be more painful than leaving it be.  It's what I was told when I had second and third degree burns on my hand after sticking it into an open fryer.  15 years later I still have scars.




Lynnxz -> RE: Burn remedies? (12/9/2008 10:37:14 AM)

*Edit*

Awe... old thread I got all excited. :(




came4U -> RE: Burn remedies? (12/9/2008 10:44:39 AM)

I exchange emails with a guy who is a physician at a burn unit.

I will ask him and come back.

Yet, all I recall about burns is that they keep burning even long after the exposure to the heat source.  So keeping it wet (not necessarily iced too long to avoid shock) is a good idea.  Room temperature water on/off should be fine but still see a clinic in the meanwhile, wet towel with you at all times though. Also, as a general rule, I believe you are not supposed to put 'anything' as a salve on it.  It only makes it harder and more painful to treat by a physician when he has to remove whatever you slapped on there.

EDIT: ARGGG I fell for the old thread trap too. I gotta start looking at the dates.




SageFemmexx -> RE: Burn remedies? (12/9/2008 10:46:17 AM)

Lipton tea leaves also work for pain on almost anything. They need to be wet and cool but packing them onto a blister or scrape works well. I recommend wet tea bags to nursing moms with the ouchies and I layered on wet tea leaves on an impressive burn from a cooking accident.

Remember you have more nerve endings in your fingertips than anywhere else so any burn on your hands will give you more pain even if it is minor. Use commonsense and read up on your basic first aid.

Sage.




porcelain26 -> RE: Burn remedies? (12/9/2008 3:23:45 PM)

Considering it's your hand that you burned and it's that severe, I'd head to the doctor if I were you. Scars caused from even second degree burns can decrease functioning, like fine motor skills, especially in the hands. Silvadine cream is the only thing I know of for sure that works great for those types of burns, and you gotta get it from the doc if you want the good stuff. I've had wicked nasty sunburns before (landed my butt in the ER) and that stuff cured me in a matter of days...it rocks.




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