RE: So, you are a "slave"

RE: So, you are a "slave" (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 10:32:41 AM)
Roof tarring is extreme foreplay in these parts........maybe even illegal.

gypsygrl -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 10:36:25 AM)
quote: Guess they would not consider a Harley ride or tarring the roof foreplay either then? Probably not. But, that raises a whole other issue: the difference between foreplay and playplay. :)

LadyPact -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 10:57:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: poisonedprogress Not at all. I'm just trying to find out how you define it, because during my time here I've noticed everybody seems to have their own personal definitions for various roles... I'll also point out that I've yet to provide my own definitions on this forum. I've given My definition time and time again on these forums. A slave is a person living a M/s dynamic with their owner, or has lived a M/s dynamic with a prior owner. I really thought I had said that pages ago in this thread when I agreed with the folks who said that those who had never had an owner were not a slave. (Before you get in a tizzy about that one, I said living a dynamic, I didn't especially say living with.) quote: By saying that these definitions are indeed your own you are actually agreeing with me, as my point was that these positions are all subjective and relative. We'd disagree if you started telling me that my definitions were bunk I never said anything of the sort. quote: because you're old I'll be 40 this year, so I probably do qualify as "old" to someone your age. quote: or "real" I'd try to bs you that I'm "fake" but at this point, too many folks from these forums have seen Me in person for Me to get away with it. quote: or possess some kind of divinely mandated authority in the realm of my life. Oh, that's a bit of a stretch for anyone, wouldn't you think? quote: I could not give much less of a shit about how anybody defines any of this crap. I have no problem at all with anybody's definition. What I don't like is when they stomp around claiming theirs is the end-all-be-all; that I'm not a master because I don't micromanage, or that my slave is not a slave because she won't consent to potato sodomy. Pay no heed to the fact that she absolutely must consent to the slavery to begin with, along with everything that slavery entails, and that such consent can be removed at any time for any reason with the full backing of legal authorities. The slave retains control by default unless you're participating in the highly illegal and morally reprehensible version of slavery... are you? Is anybody here? I hardly know where to begin with this last bit, except to say that no one is requiring you to care about anyone's definition one way or the other. You asked for Mine and I gave it to you. I have no need to ask for yours. If the one you have works for you and your girl, I have no reason to be anything other than perfectly content with that. As to the end all be all of anything, I don't believe I said that here. Actually, I don't even say that on My own side of the screen. Rather than 'the one true way', I have My way, which works for Me, just as I'm sure your way works for you. Still, in all My time here, I have yet to see a single person in these last ten pages, or any other pages on this forum, come along to proclaim that they were a slave to the same extent that they were with an owner, rather than prior to having one. That they realized the same potential. That they fully lived as a slave, without giving that ownership to someone else. When one shows up, or should you find one, I would be most interested.

CreativeDominant -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 12:00:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: poisonedprogress quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Which is exactly what I said in the first place. In order for a person to be a slave, there must be an M. There is no self-proclamation. So there is no such thing as an unowned slave? quote: You answered this for yourself, when you said participants (plural) rather than participant (singular). What do you call an unowned slave then? I am beginning to think that you are trying so hard to pigeonhole My definition to match that of yours that you will try to come off with every exception possible. For your benefit, however, I call an unowned slave a slave who has, in some way, lost their prior owner. When I say "lost" that covers all reasons that a slave might no longer be with an owner, be that by intent, design, or death. I do hate to disappoint you, but we are not going to agree on the issue. By My definition, a person is not a slave who has not had an owner. If it makes you feel any better, I have strict definitions for the other side of the kneel as well. Not everybody agrees with Me, which is fine. I do not live their life and they do not live Mine. One thing that always does amaze Me when these kind of threads come up. Some are so willing to say 'everyone's definition should be acceptable' until someone comes around who says their definition might be a little more rigid. You've noted that too, eh? It's funny...there are those who want people to accept their self-definition of themselves and what they are as a "slave", "submissive", "dominant", whatever and what they think fits their definitions for the other characters but who want to fight those with a more rigid definition of themselves as a "slave", "submissive", "dominant", whatever and what they see as necessary to fill the other characters' definitions. After my post yesterday, I went back through my books...Devon & Miller, Wiseman, Lizst, Bannon and, because of what is written there, I thought back to words I've read from others on here about master/slave relationships...Mercnbeth come to mind but there are others...and that led to an alteration of the definition landscape in my mind. But even allowing for this variation, it still comes down to this...you can define yourself however you see fit. Most likely, given the nature of the world...whether D/s or vanilla...you are going to find someone who agrees with your definition. But you are also going to find someone who does not. When the majority of people, be they friends or authoritative sources or enemies or all of the above, disagree with your definition then you just might consider re-examining your position to see if you might be wrong. And just remember, even if you are right... for you and your partner...it doesn't make the other fellow wrong, just because he doesn't agree with your looser definition.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 12:56:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl quote: Damnit... you mean tormenting you with the washing away of some of the sand wasn't considered playing??? My bad... lmao. But, it seems that, in some peoples eyes, if it doesn't involve me screaming out in pain, its not play. The idea that dusting etc can be 'play' escapes some people. :) Guess they would not consider a Harley ride or tarring the roof foreplay either then? *twice? You are the only person I know that would consider that foreplay!! I've never in my life seen a girl have so damn much fun getting dirty!!!* And gypsygrl? If they had seen the look on your face while you were trying like hell to ignore it they would have understood completely!!! lmao Between that and the filters you were there hon... definately!! quote: When the majority of people, be they friends or authoritative sources or enemies or all of the above, disagree with your definition then you just might consider re-examining your position to see if you might be wrong. And just remember, even if you are right... for you and your partner...it doesn't make the other fellow wrong, just because he doesn't agree with your looser definition. *Very well stated CD.* *Jewel*

Twicehappy2x -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 1:44:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl quote: Guess they would not consider a Harley ride or tarring the roof foreplay either then? Probably not. But, that raises a whole other issue: the difference between foreplay and playplay. :) Play play would be what we do when we get off the bike, weg.........

Twicehappy2x -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 1:50:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x Guess they would not consider a Harley ride or tarring the roof foreplay either then? *twice? You are the only person I know that would consider that foreplay!! I've never in my life seen a girl have so damn much fun getting dirty!!!* Hey, it was hot, it was sweaty, it involved getting wet and slimy, i was doing it with Scooter......cleanup involved the neighbor lady, you and Scooter all rubbing my naked butt with baby oil.......... Damn straight i enjoyed it!

softness -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 2:46:49 PM)
wow .. ok ... Have dipped in and out of the great bun fight that this thread has become ... but it has been almost in possible to keep track of the buns ... I did try though! Personally .. I would never be so arrogant as to assume that my definition and my understanding of slavery is worthy of being universal. Personally I do not think it is anyone's place to force a label onto somebody else. If someone introduces themselves to me as a slave, then slave they are. I am a slave. By my definition and the definition of my Owner. Nothing anyone else can say or do is going to change that status in my eyes or His. As a slave I give service, and as a slave I have handed over control to my Owner. For us however I still have a world full of a particular decisions to make. One very important decision, one very crucial power remains to me. Every day, everytime I struggle with something, or resent a situation I am put in, or I just plain hate something I have to do - I have a decision to make. Stay in my collar and submit, or take my collar off and be free. Endless discussion and negotiation prepared us for that position. My Owner has very sound knowledge of what choices will make that a difficult decision to make, He also knows that there are several things where the decision will be very easy. The example of piercing is interesting. I do not actually like body piercings . It's not my personal taste. I do not find multiple genital piercings arrousing, and would certainly not have them done just for myself. I have had my hood pierced before, but I took it out again when the relationship ended with the person I did it for. My Owner likes body piercings, and I will have a great many done over the next few years. He made it clear that He wanted them right from the start, and I have come to see that His happiness with my body and what decorates it, has more value than my own opinion on the matter. When my Owner releases me, unless things change dramatically which they may, then I will remove the piercings and move on. I do like body art, and my Owner and I plan several pieces for me. If He wanted "Cunt" or "slave" written across my body, and made it a condition of my collar ... my collar would come off. If my refusal to submit to something that cannot be undone means that I am not a slave in the eyes of others ... then so be it. I am a slave in my eyes, and in the eyes of my Owner. I become suspicious of those who seek to force their intellectual and philosophical mark onto others.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 3:11:37 PM)
quote: Personally .. I would never be so arrogant as to assume that my definition and my understanding of slavery is worthy of being universal. Personally I do not think it is anyone's place to force a label onto somebody else. If someone introduces themselves to me as a slave, then slave they are. Ok, maybe I am that arrogant. My definition... as many others here has already stated, is someone that is owned in the M/s context. Of course it could be that they are literally owned in some foriegn country, but the chances of them meeting me in small town USA is pretty slim. It just doesn't get any looser then that. And if someone introduces themselves to me as a slave, working under my own somewhat arrogant definition, I'm going to assume that the person is owned. Just as I would assume that the person introducing themselves as a pilot can, indeed, fly an airplane. In the same respect, if someone tells me they are a slave and I know beyond any doubt that they have zero experience in the M/s and/or BDSM lifestyle I will call bull shit on it. I'm sorry, but no one is going to convince me that that furry, fluffly, four legged creature is a bird. There is a common language for a reason and without it and common definitions to words we just as well be back in the stone age and drawing pictures on the walls of our caves. *Jewel*

TheGaggingWh0re -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 3:37:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness wow .. ok ... Have dipped in and out of the great bun fight that this thread has become ... but it has been almost in possible to keep track of the buns ... I did try though! Personally .. I would never be so arrogant as to assume that my definition and my understanding of slavery is worthy of being universal. Personally I do not think it is anyone's place to force a label onto somebody else. If someone introduces themselves to me as a slave, then slave they are. I am a slave. By my definition and the definition of my Owner. Nothing anyone else can say or do is going to change that status in my eyes or His. As a slave I give service, and as a slave I have handed over control to my Owner. For us however I still have a world full of a particular decisions to make. One very important decision, one very crucial power remains to me. Every day, everytime I struggle with something, or resent a situation I am put in, or I just plain hate something I have to do - I have a decision to make. Stay in my collar and submit, or take my collar off and be free. Endless discussion and negotiation prepared us for that position. My Owner has very sound knowledge of what choices will make that a difficult decision to make, He also knows that there are several things where the decision will be very easy. The example of piercing is interesting. I do not actually like body piercings . It's not my personal taste. I do not find multiple genital piercings arrousing, and would certainly not have them done just for myself. I have had my hood pierced before, but I took it out again when the relationship ended with the person I did it for. My Owner likes body piercings, and I will have a great many done over the next few years. He made it clear that He wanted them right from the start, and I have come to see that His happiness with my body and what decorates it, has more value than my own opinion on the matter. When my Owner releases me, unless things change dramatically which they may, then I will remove the piercings and move on. I do like body art, and my Owner and I plan several pieces for me. If He wanted "Cunt" or "slave" written across my body, and made it a condition of my collar ... my collar would come off. If my refusal to submit to something that cannot be undone means that I am not a slave in the eyes of others ... then so be it. I am a slave in my eyes, and in the eyes of my Owner. I become suspicious of those who seek to force their intellectual and philosophical mark onto others. I agree with this fully, especially with the bolded part.

MadRabbit -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 3:41:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant After my post yesterday, I went back through my books...Devon & Miller, Wiseman, Lizst, Bannon and, because of what is written there, I thought back to words I've read from others on here about master/slave relationships...Mercnbeth come to mind but there are others...and that led to an alteration of the definition landscape in my mind. It's all about external validation through other people. It seems Hegel was right. "Whether it's Screw The Roses, Give Me The Thorns", a Wikipedia article, or a pompous Internet identity trying to get others to conform via the peer pressure cry of "this is how all the real people do it", each one just represents a perspective taken from a group of people, either large or small and people appeal to such definitions for security in their own identity. I think it's all sad, because the only validation one should need in an intimate relationship is from the other person in the relationship or even better, just flat out self validation. I don't need anyone to tell me I am dominant, because my security in that identity stems from what I KNOW internally about myself. If your appealing to sources beyond yourself or your partner for validation, then your just another porcelain doll, cut and crafted by another society of people trying to tell you who you are and how to live your life. What's even sadder is when your seeking validation from people who's sole reason of telling you what you are is an egocentric one of attempting to posture themselves as being "better" than you or "more elite". Fuck em.

julietsierra -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 3:55:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 Even some of the people I think write the most perceptive comments on these boards fall into this gushy place in this thread. The Masters/Mistresses all have perfect slaves who do the Top's bidding happily, without hesitation, and in perfect 3/4 time. Every slave has found her/his perfect place with no qualms, no errors and 100% perfect multiple orgasms. And Leatherist, you worry about poseurs? In fact, I've entered into a new relationship with a perfect baby girl grin I'm just not gonna tell YOU about it!) HEY! Not sure if I'm one of those "perceptive people" or not, but I DID call myself the "reluctant" slave....just WHAT do you think that means anyway?! oh.. and even if you're not going to tell us about it...Congrats. juliet

Viridana -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 3:55:16 PM)
Ooooh, I think I'm in love with you crazy bunny [sm=yahoo.gif]

MadRabbit -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 4:06:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Viridana Ooooh, I think I'm in love with you crazy bunny [sm=yahoo.gif] What can I say? I'm just so cute and fluffy.

dawntreader -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 5:26:37 PM)
So...i had to skip a few pages of the semantic war and i am wondering... have we defined "true sex slave" yet? Also...why so much disgust for the "bedroom submissive"... And what about people that just love kinky sex...are they 2nd class posters? Why does everything here have to be one upmanship? Why do so many desire to squeeze into a label and defend it for 11 pages? [8\|]

ThundersCry -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 5:51:05 PM)
Nicely said... Sad....indeed... Thanks...

ProtagonistLily -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 6:19:00 PM)
quote: So...i had to skip a few pages of the semantic war and i am wondering... have we defined "true sex slave" yet? Also...why so much disgust for the "bedroom submissive"... And what about people that just love kinky sex...are they 2nd class posters? Why does everything here have to be one upmanship? Why do so many desire to squeeze into a label and defend it for 11 pages? Amen. PL

Surrenderwithin -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 7:16:08 PM)
I am a slave in my relationship to my Master. I have many skills, and develop more all the time. These skills are his to use as he chooses. What I learn he decides. I do not feel it is important to list my many and varied skills for public knowledge... unless or course, he choose to put me upon the slave block ( joke). However, I will say that to me my slavery is about service as I am very service oriented. Maggi

Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 7:20:40 PM)
Fasrt reply. In the long run, I will have enough backbone to stick to my personal definitions of dynamics as I see them. And all of the squealing about elitism,and intolerance yadda yadda yadda.... Is not going to change my mind. No matter how many rabbits get upset and point fingers-my views will be the same. Because that is how I am, and my mode of life and the way I see it are not up for debate. I'm not in a popularity contest-and high school and being an "in Kid" happened a long long time ago.[;)]

sula -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/30/2008 7:44:27 PM)
Well, leatherist, going back to your original post: Quite a conclusion you inferred, "Is it all about playing then?" And since you posted shortly after reading my profile, short as it is, i feel obligated to respond. As i am not here "looking" for a Master, it seemed...mmmm...unnecessary to display my scope of interests and skills - which are varied, ranging from horse training and sailing to beekeeping, falconry and belly dancing. Since you pissed and moaned in public about not knowing, i hope that satisfies your odd interest. i'm inclined to agree with missturbation: who the heck pissed in your Cheerios? See ya (you know the rest) sula

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